Zeiss - Giving in to Antis

[Kevin Peacocke]

We have no idea the context this was sent in (if it’s even legitimate). We can only assume. However, all I see with this is prioritizing the hunting experience and high end optics for the direction their company wants to go.

Legitimate or not, I see a lot of sense in the Zeiss standpoint. I see a lot more acceptance of the move towards eating game as being heathy and 'right'. I see a lot of plates of food on both Swarovski and Leica adverts, everybody eats, most eat meat, even liberals. It is far more palateable than the trophy label, although we all know that the trophy meat got eaten too.

 

[375Fox]

Legitimate or not, I see a lot of sense in the Zeiss standpoint. I see a lot more acceptance of the move towards eating game as being heathy and 'right'. I see a lot of plates of food on both Swarovski and Leica adverts, everybody eats, most eat meat, even liberals. It is far more palateable than the trophy label, although we all know that the trophy meat got eaten too.

I agree with you, prioritizing the experience over the kill is a good thing for hunting. I like the separation from the tactical thing too if it is legitimate.

 

[thi9elsp]

I would like to see some confirmation as to the veracity of the memo.

I will say that I only have an issue of youth with firearms. I would prefer that was more nuanced and said no youth with 'ARs' or something like that to indicate a sensitivity to the school shootings.

As an FYI. Here's how quickly social media can attack and take someone down. I'm not surprised that a company would be sensitive to their own social media posts.

On Saturday before the PGA Tour started play, Mark Lye was hosting his radio show and a discussion came up about the differences between watch men's and women's sports. Although he spoke how he became an avid watcher of women's golf, he made the remark - "I would rather put a gun to my head than watch the WNBA." He was fired and his evening show that typically runs after the PGA tour play is over Saturday evening was not on.

As Dan Abrams said on News Nation, One could say put a gun to my head if I had to watch a Biden / Trump press conference and no one would have cared. Why is it different in sports?

 

[Hank2211]

This is the world we live in today. Hunters have to make a decision - do we want to be right, or do we want to be effective? Unfortunately, that's the choice in many cases. I vote for effective.

 

[Jeffrey]

A good dark timber elk/stag scope is a good lion/leopard scope. Zeiss knows it doesn’t need to preach to the choir. I see a company taking proactive steps to keep hunting culture going. This isn’t nearly what Nikon did.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Kids need to be

I understand their intent with today’s work and cancel culture populations. I don’t agree with it, but I get it. Crossing some unknown imaginary line with these people causes a public outrage which then “forces” the company to go further than they otherwise would have or desired.

I do think the “felony” on this list is youth shooting. Keeping youth ignorant is never the way to keep them or the future or people SAFE.

If kids are getting their exposure to hunting through Zeiss ads, hunting will be gone in a generation and rightfully so. Kids need to get their exposure through their parents and peers. And non-hunting adults need to get their exposure through friends who care to take the time and effort. Far more deer have been been shot on my land by others than by me.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

Zeiss sucks anyway.
If I owned a scope company
1. Promote to youth and all ages
2. Promote kill pics
3. High capacity mag pics required.

Care not about dollars I do.
I also don’t move at worlds pace nor care what anyone that could be a freedom hating democrat or communist , atheist , etc thinks.

 

[Red Leg]

It is useful to remind ourselves that a company's first priority is to its share holders. It can't create any new products without investment in company shares. Yes, Carl Zeiss needs sales at respectable margins, and running off offended customers can be problematic, but their sport optics represent only a single division.

The company CEO and Board's first priority is to protect the brand and thus basic share holder value. Nothing else matters if the brand is successfully attacked in some way, undermining the performance of all of its divisions regardless of sales.

Again, I am actually heartened that they continue to embrace their hunting market share and will advertise it. The fact that they will do so in a way so as not to endanger their huge medical and optical instrument foot print simply speaks to good management.

Zeiss sucks anyway.
If I owned a company
1. Promote to youth and all ages
2. Promote kill pics
3. High capacity mags required.

Care not about dollars I do.

That would certainly explain why you don't run the company.

​

 

[C.W. Richter]

Take this Zeiss...(it's not totally noticeable but that's a pair of Zeiss binoculars draped over the dead deer's back breaking at least one of their "don'ts"...

View attachment 452021

However, you are neither Selling nor Buying Zeiss scopes, it seems. I agree with most of their sales agenda. I intend to trade my Leupold binos up to Zeiss this year, based upon use of a loaner pair last fall!

 

[C.W. Richter]

Zeiss sucks anyway.
If I owned a scope company
1. Promote to youth and all ages
2. Promote kill pics
3. High capacity mag pics required.

Care not about dollars I do.
I also don’t move at worlds pace nor care what anyone that could be a democrat or communist , atheist , etc thinks.

Try to put yourself in their shoes. Do you happen to operate a $MM International Business? We applaud you, but question your advice, if you do....

 

[Deleted member 40394]

It is useful to remind ourselves that a company's first priority is to its share holders. It can't create any new products without investment in company shares. Yes, Carl Zeiss needs sales at respectable margins, and running off offended customers can be problematic, but their sport optics represent only a single division.

The company CEO and Board's first priority is to protect the brand and thus basic share holder value. Nothing else matters if the brand is successfully attacked in some way, undermining the performance of all of its divisions regardless of sales.

Again, I am actually heartened that they continue to embrace their hunting market share and will advertise it. The fact that they will do so in a way so as not to endanger their huge medical and optical instrument foot print simply speaks to good management.



That would certainly explain why you don't run the company.

​

I said own. Implying privately owned by me.
I don’t run a company because frankly i wouldn’t want too. When issuing a promotion strategy I would be way too common sense about it. If I couldn’t promote what is right then I’m done. This memo doesn’t give me the good gut feeling therefore I couldnt stand by it.
Didn’t say I didn’t understand it.

anyway. I try to do my part in teaching youth. And buying lots of high capacity magazines. I am just a big hairy freedom loving American.

 

[Red Leg]

I said own. Implying privately owned by me.
I don’t run a company because frankly i wouldn’t want too. When issuing a promotion strategy I would be way too common sense about it. If I couldn’t promote what is right then I’m done. This memo doesn’t give me the good gut feeling.

Then you are free to take any position you wish on any subject you like. A Chief Executive Officer of a publicly traded corporation does not have that luxury. Again, I applaud the position Zeiss is willing to take in the current environment.

Is "what is right" a picture of your scope against a dead animal or protecting the jobs of your employees and your share holders? It is a tough balancing act, but protecting employees and share value seems like common sense to me.

And their Victory line of products are some of the finest hunting optics in the world.

 

[Tanks]

Zeiss sucks anyway.
If I owned a scope company
1. Promote to youth and all ages
2. Promote kill pics
3. High capacity mag pics required.

Care not about dollars I do.
I also don’t move at worlds pace nor care what anyone that could be a freedom hating democrat or communist , atheist , etc thinks.

They are not just a scope company. I own several high end medium format Zeiss lenses.

 

[baxterb]

The memo is legit - no reason to doubt the guys at FE.

I’m following conversations on this topic on three forums. Amazing the different perspectives given the quite different demographics of the users.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Slippery slope, perhaps, but I read recently of changes in mgmt at Swarovski, away from family was it? They have a whole 'nother line of nothing-to-do with shooting sports or hunting products that sell very well. If it hasn't happened already, the Land Roverish decision-making has already begun there, too.

 

[Rubberhead]

However, you are neither Selling nor Buying Zeiss scopes, it seems. I agree with most of their sales agenda. I intend to trade my Leupold binos up to Zeiss this year, based upon use of a loaner pair last fall!

I'm a pretty serious birder (bird watcher) so I spend more time behind binoculars than most other hunters. I have gotten where I only use Zeiss binoculars for birding and hunting. It's got nothing to do with the name either. It's just the quality of the image that has moved me in that direction.

If I wasn't planning (and budgeting) for Africa, I'd have a Zeiss scope on the gun in the picture too.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Zeiss sucks anyway.
If I owned a scope company
1. Promote to youth and all ages
2. Promote kill pics
3. High capacity mag pics required.

Care not about dollars I do.
I also don’t move at worlds pace nor care what anyone that could be a freedom hating democrat or communist , atheist , etc thinks.

Switching gears, when will you be heading to Africa and what for? 3 is a no-no there and 2 should be cleaned up a bit for public display. Hunting is NOT about the KILL. That's about a nanosecond of a hunt. Now, take that kid hunting (as my G. Grandfather did,) and let he or she experience that success, and (in your private world) you've created a lifetime Hunter. For every African trophy (I mean species, not R&W score,) to be successful, you'll spend many, many days of working hard, preparing, paperwork, traveling, and then comes the long walks, stalks, fraction-of-a-second kill, a few minutes for photos (clean that blood off to better promote the sport to those who do not partake!), distributing meat to locals, and then the long journey home for you and your trophies (separate cabs.) What brought you here? Most people w/ a $500 knock-off AR-15 are NOT going to put $1,000-$2,500 Zeiss optics atop it. PA allows hunting with "magazines filled to capacity." In most circles, that means a total of 5 or less. ARs are not legal here for big game hunting. I recall hunting in SC years back and centerfires weren't even legal for Coyotes (that bothered me while deer hunting as I saw a ton!) Legal for varmints and other intruders in PA, only. I'm reasonably sure neither PA nor SC are going to curtail ownership of 30-100 rd mags anytime soon. They just don't need to serve as a reminder to <fictitious example LOL> slightly-Off kids (whom the gov't missed due to Mommy in one case and schools needing funding in the other lol) from say CT and FL, to use these devices against innocent people-and get big business sued and/or eliminated-to the detriment of our sport. As a result of this scenario, I know many safari-supporting businesses that quickly checked out of CT! Sales & Marketing is everything. It's why people buy Coca-cola and Big Macs, and later have to buy Humalin and Lipitor. The difference here, of course, is that Zeiss optics are of high quality and can enhance your shooting, so long as they continue to sell.

 

[CEO]

I'd bet long range hunting is next to drop to the bottom list.

 

[mark-hunter]

A public photo of dead animal has brought many harms to hunting community, and zero benefits.
All public campaings against hunting, were fueled and started by our public photos with dead animals.
Professional PR of a large corporations, understands that public photo of dead animals divides the public, thus divides the market.
Zeiss is not the only company with same policy. Even now, is hard to find promotional photo of a hunting industry brand made with pictures with dead animals (especially european companies), and very soon, it will dissapear as advertising method from the rest of companies who are still using it, in ever changing modern political world. (just like marlboro man, advertising for cigarettes, gone for ever)

I am also fairly certain, that this will have effect on various hunting organisations to make changes in their codes of ethics, that public photos with dead animals will not be suported. This will happen in next 10 to 20 years, for sure, as they will have to start thinking and planning their PR.

I have been hunting as a guest in some hunting clubs, on driven boar hunts, where taking photo of game shot, was not allowed, and it was even written as a rule, and have been been told during breifing before the hunt. So, it is already happening.
Bottom line, Zeiss new policy is not surprise.

 

[VertigoBE]

Looks like an intelligent position for a company with such a broad product base at stake in a woke, and more importantly, cancel culture world (they make a lot more than scopes and binos). They also sell worldwide, not just where the camo is cool crowd is found. I am frankly encouraged that they still embrace "traditional" hunting where even that is under fire in so many places where their products are sold.

Fully agree, and if this allows them to continue to produce the high end optics we hunters want, I’m fine with that.