Work-up to May 2023, SA plains game

[shootist~]

Nothing is wrong with a 100 yd ZERO if that's what you are used to for practice. But be sure you realize that for every distance except ~75 to 125 yards, your POI will be below your POA. Still, with a 300 WM you should be only 3" low at 200 yards ( assuming a 100 Yd zero).

Where and how accurate it shoots from the bench is moot, however. What counts is where (and how well) you shoot from the sticks - and obviously other field expedient positions.

FWIW, I have to tweak my Zero up some for shooting from the sticks Vs from the bench. Probably just the way I hold the forearm, but best to know for sure.

Below is my Shooter Ballistics table for a 180 gr TTSX at 2,900 fps MV; 5,000' Density Altitude.

(yd)	Path (in)	Path (mils)	Drift (in)	Drift (mils)	Velocity (fps)	Energy (ft-lbs)	TOF (s)
325	-14.3	+1.2	-6.3	+0.5	2372.5	2249.5	0.372
300	-11.3	+1.0	-5.3	+0.5	2411.0	2323.2	0.340
275	-8.7	+0.9	-4.4	+0.4	2449.2	2397.4	0.310
250	-6.5	+0.7	-3.6	+0.4	2488.4	2474.8	0.279
225	-4.6	+0.6	-2.9	+0.4	2528.0	2554.1	0.249
200	-3.0	+0.4	-2.3	+0.3	2567.8	2635.3	0.220
175	-1.8	+0.3	-1.7	+0.3	2608.1	2718.5	0.191
150	-0.9	+0.2	-1.3	+0.2	2648.6	2803.6	0.162
125	-0.3	+0.1	-0.9	+0.2	2689.3	2890.5	0.134
100	-0.0	0	-0.6	+0.2	2730.3	2979.4	0.107
75	0.0	0	-0.3	+0.1	2772.3	3071.8	0.079
50	-0.3	+0.2	-0.1	+0.1	2814.6	3166.1	0.052
25	-0.8	+0.9	-0.0	0	2856.3	3260.7	0.026
0	-1.7	0.0	-0.0	0.0	2900.0	3361.2	0.000

 

[Deepfork]

The problem with the CDS is in a way how Leupold advertises it. "Dial up for shots up to 600 yds" and may have possibly stated even farther. Definitely not the case. I think it's an awesome concept but clearly not as simple as that. To your point on altitude and temp as well, they supposedly bake in a cushion. How does that cushion and the room for error multiply across distances, though? Does that margin of error multiply across farther distances? I would guess it does but I'm a novice. I suppose it's better if you have a CDS dialed into exactly where you are hunting with the current temps and muzzle velocity. Nothing against Leupold because there's a limit to how accurate everything is.

I think it's great but after really finally putting some rounds through this rifle, I wonder which is better:

Do the legwork with proper input and get the CDS?
Learn your holdovers, proper?
Or stick with the stock turret and learn your MOA/click settings?

The question then comes in of do you really even have time to dial in some instances? My outfitter basically told me "You won't have time to mess with your dial in most cases. Zero your rifle to 100 yds and know your holdovers." I suppose if you're lying prone, downwind from the animal, they have no idea you're there, and they are 300 yds away, you might have time.

I just don't really know, to be honest. That's why I'm sticking to the keeping it simple for now.

Distance you can dial up on a CDS scope depends on your scope and load. VX-3 HD on my .308 with a 200 yard zero I get a little over 600 yards. One revolution of the turret on the VX-3. VX-5 HD on my 300WM, and again a 200 yard zero it will dial to 1200 yards. The VX-5 allows two complete turns of the turret so you can dial much further. Both of these dials are dead on on my rifles out to 500 yards. Have not done absolute accuracy test past 500. But with the 300wm and VX5 I can consistently ping a 18 inch steel plate at 900 yards just by dialing the distance.

 

[Rubberhead]

Nosler just tweeted that they have 180 grain accubond .300WM in stock...

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I will not have the CDS in time. I spoke to Leupold direct. Their folks are insanely knowledgeable. Between them and Browning, every time I call I get someone who is retired military and/or has a ton of serious hunting experience. There is a "cushion" in what's baked into the dial, according to them. I believe it's 40F +/- for ambient temp and I want to say 2000' +/- for elevation. This was from their mouth, not mine, and I don't have my notes in front of me. I'm OCD and take notes on everything. With that being said, they want an accurate muzzle velocity. The options are chrono or manual calc. I am going to go with the manual calc when the time comes. Difference in drop between 100 and 300 yds, ballistic calculator, and it gets pretty close.

I will get the CDS but for now, I think it's taking on more than I should. Rifle is zeroed at 100 yds, 200 yds it might be a hair lower but still dead animal. 300 yds, well, if I feel I can make that shot looks like the holdover might need to be a touch higher, maybe 7-8" based on specs.

Leupolds CS is great. I’m aware they use a cushion/average. I’ve got several guns set-up with them and use them, but anything I purposefully intend on shooting long range with is done by dialing. Even with a gun running CDS, at the exact elevation and conditions I’m restricting my shot distance on an animal (except coyotes, baboons, etc) because it’s not precise enough.

Too many people become victims of marketing. You’re a self admitted “green” adult onset hunter. I’m not saying that in a bad light or to be mean. Your intentions and questions are pure but from a couple of the posts it’s clear you’re being “influenced” which is exactly what companies want so they make more money. Just look at the entire picture. There’s a reason the military isn’t running CDS, and Precision Shooter’s don’t. If the newest widget was all that, you can damn well guarantee it’d be getting fielded on the battlefield in places you’ve never heard of.

Another piece of advice and I’m guilty of it too, is resume check. Check bios and teaching tactics of instructors and sources of information. Just because someone was military or law enforcement doesn’t mean they’re experts or know all. Someone needs to cook and do the laundry. Just because someone has some cool badges, and schools doesn’t either. Tactics change and evolve giving those credentials a shelf life. Some of the best shooters and instructors out there are people who’ve never served or deployed. One of the best shooters I know (won nationals, named Presidents 100 every year I can recall, distinguished in everything, international medals, holds numerous national and world records, etc) was a Chem guy in the reserves and never deployed or did anything cool/sexy.

I hope you enjoy your hunt and don’t think I’m picking on you. I actually found your posts searching for Kuche since I’m heading there with 3 first timers and was trying to read reviews and talk to people who’ve been. Depending on when you’re there, our trips might even overlap in camp or at the airport.

 

[Inline6]

The problem with the CDS is in a way how Leupold advertises it. "Dial up for shots up to 600 yds" and may have possibly stated even farther. Definitely not the case. I think it's an awesome concept but clearly not as simple as that. To your point on altitude and temp as well, they supposedly bake in a cushion. How does that cushion and the room for error multiply across distances, though? Does that margin of error multiply across farther distances? I would guess it does but I'm a novice. I suppose it's better if you have a CDS dialed into exactly where you are hunting with the current temps and muzzle velocity. Nothing against Leupold because there's a limit to how accurate everything is.

I think it's great but after really finally putting some rounds through this rifle, I wonder which is better:

Do the legwork with proper input and get the CDS?
Learn your holdovers, proper?
Or stick with the stock turret and learn your MOA/click settings?

The question then comes in of do you really even have time to dial in some instances? My outfitter basically told me "You won't have time to mess with your dial in most cases. Zero your rifle to 100 yds and know your holdovers." I suppose if you're lying prone, downwind from the animal, they have no idea you're there, and they are 300 yds away, you might have time.

I just don't really know, to be honest. That's why I'm sticking to the keeping it simple for now.

So it is all how you train, 95% of the matches I have shot I dial. I personally use mils because 98% of the people I shoot with speak that language and 10ths work well in my brain.

Have shot 10 targets walking out to 1300 yards dailing for every shot in under 90 seconds. To dial fast is not a problem if you train that way. You need to have your calculations in hand to move fast, not a big deal you can make cards for every DA from 2000 to 10000 in 500' increments (a little over kill for not shoot past 300 yards just giving ideas). Hunt one area, hope in the truck get to the next spot check DA and grab correct card and move on.

I'll mention it one more time, I don't want to sound like I'm beating a dead horse. If you are sighted in 2"-2.5" high at 100 yards you are in the 5" kill zone for close to 300 yards. Look at the table that @shootist~ provides. You can run your own tables with your setup or if you don't have a app or program let me know I'll run them for you when you get your velocities. Just remember garbage in garbage out. Meaning you have to put all the correct info in the program. Sight hight needs to be correct, velocity needs to be correct. Twist rate and so on.

It might sound a little complicated or intimidating. It is just numbers, like you put into your GPS. If you have a low level transducer it might get you 20' from your mark when you have a good setup you will be within 3'. Same principle, our info we feed the app/program is the transducer the more accurate the info the closer we hit or mark.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

The problem with the CDS is in a way how Leupold advertises it. "Dial up for shots up to 600 yds" and may have possibly stated even farther. Definitely not the case. I think it's an awesome concept but clearly not as simple as that. To your point on altitude and temp as well, they supposedly bake in a cushion. How does that cushion and the room for error multiply across distances, though? Does that margin of error multiply across farther distances? I would guess it does but I'm a novice. I suppose it's better if you have a CDS dialed into exactly where you are hunting with the current temps and muzzle velocity. Nothing against Leupold because there's a limit to how accurate everything is.

I think it's great but after really finally putting some rounds through this rifle, I wonder which is better:

Do the legwork with proper input and get the CDS?
Learn your holdovers, proper?
Or stick with the stock turret and learn your MOA/click settings?

The question then comes in of do you really even have time to dial in some instances? My outfitter basically told me "You won't have time to mess with your dial in most cases. Zero your rifle to 100 yds and know your holdovers." I suppose if you're lying prone, downwind from the animal, they have no idea you're there, and they are 300 yds away, you might have time.

I just don't really know, to be honest. That's why I'm sticking to the keeping it simple for now.

They don’t market a distance as some turrets will be cut for further than others based on load and caliber. You’re also right about the variables/cushion they’ve baked in for a “close enough”. As your distance expands the errors do as well and it’s not just doubling as you go another 50 or 100 because it’s essentially a slice of pie.

Follow your outfitters advice. They’re not there to steer you wrong. They want you to have the best possible experience and become a return client. As for dialing, every situation is different. You might have time, you might not have time. You might have time to range it, you might not have time to accurately range it and have to guess. I had the later situation in Namibia last year on a Gemsbok. PH and I both out of the truck in the open getting ready to follow a track when a Gemsbok bull we’d been trying to get on for several days just walked out into the same path we were in facing us more than a few hundred yards away. We knew it could see us and knew we were there bc of how he was acting. We could talk between us but neither the PH or I could take out a range Finder. I don’t even thing the PH could pull up his Binos. My rifle was already up on the sticks with me basically in shooting position so all we could do was estimate the range and let her fly. We both estimated the same and both got the range wrong but we were able to get another shot into the animal quickly.

To answer your question, I find best solution to be knowing hold overs and learning to dial. If you have the right scope many times you don’t even need to dial out to 500 or 600 yards you can do a reticle holdover/offset. If you’ve learned to spot your own rounds you can even make quick adjustments on the fly. This is especially important for follow-up shots bc anything living (regardless of how many legs it has) likely isn’t in the same place it was after being shot at.

 

[shootist~]

Fun thread. Lots of good advice and evey shooter/situation is different. And it's a wet, windy day here.

Below table has same inputs as the ballistics table above, but adjusted to 200 yard zero. Note your 300 WM (assuming 2,900 fps MV with the 180 TTSX) only needs ~1.5" high at 100 to be on at 200.

FWIW my 30-06, zeroed at 200M (219 yards) is ~2.2" high at 100 and 9.6" or so low at 325 with a 180 gr A-Frame at 2,750 fps.

My pucker moment (on a Springbok) was when the PH said "Prepare for a long shot...if they stop, shoot the one in the back." They did and it was 300+. (I held high in the body, and hit low shoulder.)

No distance was provided, but it "looked like" my 10X sight picture on our 325 yd gong.

But 7 of my 9 were at 100 yards or less. I only took the two longer shots because I felt confident at that moment.

When your PH says "that one - shoot now", you won't be thinking of dialing. And it's unlikely you will need to. He will judge your ability and work to keep you in inside your comfort zone.

Range (yd)	Path (in)	Path (mils)	Drift (in)	Drift (mils)	Velocity (fps)	Energy (ft-lbs)	TOF (s)
325	-9.4	+0.8	-6.3	+0.5	2372.5	2249.5	0.372
300	-6.8	+0.6	-5.3	+0.5	2411.0	2323.2	0.340
275	-4.6	+0.5	-4.4	+0.4	2449.2	2397.4	0.310
250	-2.7	+0.3	-3.6	+0.4	2488.4	2474.8	0.279
225	-1.2	+0.1	-2.9	+0.4	2528.0	2554.1	0.249
200	-0.0	0	-2.3	+0.3	2567.8	2635.3	0.220
175	0.8	-0.1	-1.7	+0.3	2608.1	2718.5	0.191
150	1.4	-0.3	-1.3	+0.2	2648.6	2803.6	0.162
125	1.6	-0.4	-0.9	+0.2	2689.3	2890.5	0.134
100	1.5	-0.4	-0.6	+0.2	2730.3	2979.4	0.107
75	1.1	-0.4	-0.3	+0.1	2772.3	3071.8	0.079
50	0.5	-0.3	-0.1	+0.1	2814.6	3166.1	0.052
25	-0.4	+0.5	-0.0	0	2856.3	3260.7	0.026
0	-1.7	0.0	-0.0	0.0	2900.0	3361.2	0.000

 

[Hunt anything]

I’ve had a CDS on my 7 mag since 2013 and I’ve only used it once, 456 yards on a mule deer over on the next mountainside. I was prone and my guide and I had plenty of time to range him and for me to get ultra comfortable. I was certainly glad I had it but it’s just dressing on my scope until I need it again. The scope is a VX 6 3-18 x 42

 

[Rubberhead]

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but my PH had the quadpod sticks that support the front and back of the rifle. If I ever go back, I will insist the my PH have these type sticks. They make all the different in the world.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I hope you enjoy your hunt and don’t think I’m picking on you. I actually found your posts searching for Kuche since I’m heading there with 3 first timers and was trying to read reviews and talk to people who’ve been. Depending on when you’re there, our trips might even overlap in camp or at the airport.

Not at all. I find you really need to absorb as much input as you can. In terms of the manufacturers, I feel I have to default to what they say at this point for product specific questions. Browning has answered a ton of info on the rifle and some input on ammo. Leupold has been top notch with questions on the scope. Barnes has also helped me out, even though the 180gr TTSX was just an easy choice at this point. I default to the PH in terms of sighting in and expectations. Also taking a lot of input from here as well, from people who have had their boots on the ground.

I more than likely will get the CDS at some point, but not before the safari. I just don't feel adding another variable to play around with is smart for me. I think it's great but if I were to try and add that in I might only create some questions in my head before taking the shot and that makes me nervous. Plus, with the lead time it won't happen. Plus 2, I really need a better sled and to borrow a chrono for the proper input.

I'm really as bare bones as it gets at this point. Browning X-bolt 300WM, Leupold VX5HD with no CDS, and sighted in at 100, Barnes TTSX 180gr. The only aspect I question: Sight in at 100 or 200? I keep wanting to sight at 200 but I just want to follow what the PH says. Been going back and forth on this but I figure do what they say, if something goes wrong, at least I know it wasn't because I didn't follow directions.

 

[HookMeUpII]

I don't know if it's been mentioned already but my PH had the quadpod sticks that support the front and back of the rifle. If I ever go back, I will insist the my PH have these type sticks. They make all the different in the world.

I definitely can see this. I shoot off tripod trigger sticks. I know, not the greatest but I will say, that was an eye opener for me with "this really isn't that easy." Guys making 200-300 yd shots I tip my hat to you. That's a hell of a shot off sticks.

 

[Hunt anything]

I really like the 4 legged sticks but the first time I saw them was in the kalahari and I had trouble moving them as springbok and gemsbok kept moving around. My PH had a tripod that had a clamps on them and I really liked them. You didn’t have to hold the rifle and could relax if on the sticks very long, I was on them for about 30 minutes until a bull gemsbok came out of the press and gave me a shot. Given time to practice I think I could get used to the 4 legged sticks but it was a matter of familiarity.

 

[buck wild]

Y'all fellas can sure get wrapped around an axle in a hurry I know very little about long range shooting, I rarely if ever just go hit "a range day", although I do shot 60-80 rounds per year at live targets from various situations. Knowing how to shoot is important no doubt but at least from what I see others do in the field and on Youtube hunts, lots of hunters apparently really don't know the proper shot placement/angle. I think that accounts for more long days than knowing how much my bullet is going to drop at 358 yds.

 

[Inline6]

I'm really as bare bones as it gets at this point. Browning X-bolt 300WM, Leupold VX5HD with no CDS, and sighted in at 100, Barnes TTSX 180gr. The only aspect I question: Sight in at 100 or 200? I keep wanting to sight at 200 but I just want to follow what the PH says. Been going back and forth on this but I figure do what they say, if something goes wrong, at least I know it wasn't because I didn't follow directions.

Think you answered your own question here, do yourself a favor. Set your scope 2"-2.5" high at 100 yards. Then shot targets from 50 to 300. If you do your part they should all be in the kill zone. That will allow you to throw up your rifle and shoot with having to change anything you are doing. Practice with it so you have the confidence in your rig. If you sight in for 100 and you miss something for whatever reason you are going to blame the PH because you did what he said, true or not that is where your mind will go.

The only way to shoot better of the sticks is to shoot off the sticks. Use a 22 put up a 3" shoot and see or a 3 " steel target at 100 yards and go to town on it with a 22. Cost wise you can send 50 down range for the cost of 3-4 of what you are shooting now. Knowledge wise you can't put a price on it. You will see what you are doing right and wrong. You have no recoil to contend with. You can practice different techniques if it works on the 22 you can try in with your 300wm. If it works you know why and you can continue to train that way.

At the end of the day you are 100% responsible to put the bullet in the animal. Does not matter what advice or from who. It just has to work for you. The only way for you to get confidence is by shooting all different distances. Get some 6" shoot and see targets or a 6" steel target and practice hit that with your first round at whatever distance. If you can but the bullet in a 6" circle at XXX range you killed that animal. If you are trying to shoot for good groups, you will find yourself chasing your tail. From what you have posted you and your rig are capable of 1MOA accuracy. That is 3.141" @ 300 yards. That is close to your 6" target you are trying to hit with your first round. Looking at your groups watch your trigger, I believe you are pulling it as in you are not 90° to it. That is the reason you are getting the horizontal strings on your target. This is where the 22 comes into play, if you are flinching shooting the 300 the 22 will show you really quickly. If you have a friend, have him load a mag and drop a dummy round in it. You will see if you have a flinch reL fast. Dry fire and do it alot, it is free does not hurt anything. If your sight picture is not still while you pull the trigger. Don't take a shot until it is.

It is hard to step back and remember what it was like for the first time learning. Sometimes we have to remember and go back to basics.

 

[Rubberhead]

I definitely can see this. I shoot off tripod trigger sticks. I know, not the greatest but I will say, that was an eye opener for me with "this really isn't that easy." Guys making 200-300 yd shots I tip my hat to you. That's a hell of a shot off sticks.

The quad sticks, for me, are almost as steady as a bench. They might even be better because I'm long waisted and tend to have to scrunch over on a bench. I'm not a good shot but still quite literally shot the top off of my zebra's and impala's hearts and bang-flopped a wildebeest. The warthog was another story but that one was on me and I wasn't on sticks. If you're curious...

SOUTH AFRICA: Getting To Africa

6/26/22 A 4-hour delay at the gate in Atlanta cost me my chance to see the Kalahari from the air. The scheduled 7 pm departure on Saturday turned into a 9 pm landing local Johannesburg time the following day. Needless to say, it was a long day but it was good to finally hear, "Welcome to...

www.africahunting.com

 

[Frederik]

Personally I think except for getting a proper zero this is just overthinking it.
By the time you range that impala 125 yards or 85 yards setting up the quad sticks he will be long gone.

Quad sticks work if you have time hunting in thick Limpopo bush will give you glimpes of animals and shooting through windows, time to get it perfect on the dot is difficult.
Most plainsgame even the small ones to Eland have vital circles from 6" up to 20".

Shot Placement is far more important than to know if your shot will be 1" high at 100 and 2" low at 200.
The calibre you shoot, shoots flats enough to hit most vitals without issues to 250 yards.

When hunting with a PH in thick bush and he sets the sticks down don't ask yourself what is going but immediatly put the rifle on the sticks and wait for commands and be ready.
The quicker you are ready the more chances you will have.

 

[JimP]

Make it simple.

Zero your rifle at 200 yards, you'll be 2" high at 100 yards or a few low at 300 yards.

My African rifle is zeroed at 250 yards and I just held on where I wanted to hit on all of my animals for the last 2 safaris. No playing around with the dials or waiting for the PH to give me the range, it wouldn't of helped on my last safari since the PH didn't have a range finder.

 

[geopat]

We will be in Limpopop with Kuche Safaris. Impala, blesbok, and hopefully warthog. We are beginners so we will be sticking to the more beginner-appropriate game.

Did my first with Kuche last August. Love the place and the people. They will treat you right. Please give my best to Koos and his lovely wife. And especially to my friend and guide Jacko! He’s very good and a lot of fun.
I added a few days as they count travel days and I wanted more time. Their add on prices are about as good as you can get.
I turned down a monster Eland and a magnificent Kudu due to cost. (Prices were reasonable but I shot my Safari money on a rhino darting and a magnificent sable at another camp before going to Kuche)
Best of luck,
Pat

 

[HookMeUpII]

Did my first with Kuche last August. Love the place and the people. They will treat you right. Please give my best to Koos and his lovely wife. And especially to my friend and guide Jacko! He’s very good and a lot of fun.
I added a few days as they count travel days and I wanted more time. Their add on prices are about as good as you can get.
I turned down a monster Eland and a magnificent Kudu due to cost. (Prices were reasonable but I shot my Safari money on a rhino darting and a magnificent sable at another camp before going to Kuche)
Best of luck,
Pat

This is encouraging to hear! We added days as well to account for travel too. From the general consensus it seems like they are a solid outfit of good people. Very excited to go.

 

[shootist~]

For a newbie, the one thing that will help more than anything else is dry-fire practice. Both at the range and at home.

On gaining the ability to be reasonably confident at 325 yards (standing with tri-pod sticks) - it took me two years and 2,000 rounds. Not counting 22 rimfire.