Why no love for the .358 Win?

[Rocked and Loaded]

B

Because federal invented the 338 Fed

I do see a lot more mention of 338 fed on google. It seems more popular in ARs then it ever was for bolt rifles.

I wonder why it took off so much for ARs? Better marketing?

 

[robtattoo]

I do see a lot more mention of 338 fed on google. It seems more popular in ARs then it ever was for bolt rifles.

I wonder why it took off so much for ARs? Better marketing?

Factory ammo availability, would be my first guess. I hog hunt with a bunch of guys in Texas, they're all night hunters & crop defense guys. They've all switched from .308 to .338. They're getting far fewer runners with the larger bore. I've seen it first hand enough times to confirm that.
I came very close to ordering a .358 barrel for an AR10 build I had planned, but ended up scrapping the idea before it came to fruition. I just didn't have enough need to warrant the expense.

 

[akrifleman]

I do see a lot more mention of 338 fed on google. It seems more popular in ARs then it ever was for bolt rifles.

I wonder why it took off so much for ARs? Better marketing?

Just timing. I mean, there are no flies on the 338 Federal. It works a lot better than it should on paper. But, had the 358 been invented at the same time people were trying to stuff new things in the lighter AR10s, I imagine it would have been more popular. But, the world had already decided that the 358 Win was a lever action woods cartridge only, and that the 338 Federal was only useful if you carried an AR10. The only oddity is that it took so long for the 338 to become commercialized. Both the 338 Fed and the 358 Win take advantage of having a lot of surface area on the bullet base in ratio to the amount of bearing surface of the bullet, so they fly faster than you'd expect, and hit pretty solid. Some lever guys who know whats real can tell you the 358 Win is a good caliber, and some AR guys can say the same about the 338 Fed. I suspect they were also always compared to the Whelen, which they can't quite match, if your comparing bolt guns. There are a few Alaskan sourdoughs that carried 358 Wins in levers and never were found wanting. Neither will ever be "sexy" enough to be everyone's must have, but they'll never die with 308 brass being plentiful, and they'll always work well.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Maybe if Jeff Cooper had insisted on the .358 Win. as the basis for the scout rifle...
BTW, Cooper sure told it like it was!

Yes sir he certainly did. A lot of folks thought Col. Cooper was arrogant and stand offish. Nothing further from the truth! Col. Cooper was very confident in his abilities, well read and had the creds to back it up. I do believe the 358 makes for a fine fireplug Scout rifle. I had one back in the day and will build another in the future. That being said he did favor the 350 Remington magnum. His load for it was rather hot and cases were good for 1 (!!) loading. His gunsmith John Gannoway loaded his Scout down slightly and had better case life.

 

[robtattoo]

It seems like the trend has swung back to everyone needing an 800+ yard cartridge. Lots of sleek ELD/ELR/VLD bullets in smaller calibers to make those cross canyon, prairie grass, no cover shots that apparently you have to be able to make these days. I blame Steve Rinella & all the Western hunting advocates myself (mostly because I can't draw a damn tag for all the 'king hipster hunters in the mountains)

Actual hunters, who actually kill stuff regularly, understand the versatility & capability of non-sexy, stubby little thumb sized bullets. I would guess that better than 90% of critters worldwide are killed inside of 300yds & for that, the little .358 (and I guess the. 338 if you want to be all modern....) is about perfect.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

[QUOTE="leslie hetrick, pos


look up top reloads for the whelen. those loads for the .358 are right up there and i would not start with them.
[/QUOTE]
@leslie hetrick
Here's something I found about the whelen for the Whelen lovers mate.

Bob

 

[Rick HOlbert]

look up top reloads for the whelen. those loads for the .358 are right up there and i would not start with them.

Leslie you are correct in starting lower. But,... with careful loading you can boost the 358 to higher levels very safely. I have loads pushing 180grn TTSX's to 2800fps, 225grn Swift A-Frames to 2530fps and 250's to 2400fps. No pressure signs, one finger bolt lift and extraction and terminal performance all out of proportion to what the book data says. Because the gun scribes of the day complained about recoil the pressures were held down to apx. 47000 range. Bump that up to apx. 55000-58000 and you have a beast of a round. I've shot these loads for years with no problems. But what's safe in my rifle may not be safe in another. That's why we work up slowly and back off when signs start appearing.

 

[akrifleman]

A worthwhile 358 read:

358 WCF

 

[Rick HOlbert]

A worthwhile 358 read:

358 WCF

Yes indeed. A very good read. I exchanged letters with Paco a few years ago and was most informative. Some folks have called him crazy for some of the data he offered but after carefully working up to some of the loads he had I had to agree with him. The 358 has a very efficient combustion chamber and even better expansion ratio than its parent 308 case. Based on the game I've harvested with it, I'll not part with my 358 until I cross the divide. Then one of my daughters will get it to enjoy.

 

[robtattoo]

Yes indeed. A very good read. I exchanged letters with Paco a few years ago and was most informative. Some folks have called him crazy for some of the data he offered but after carefully working up to some of the loads he had I had to agree with him. The 358 has a very efficient combustion chamber and even better expansion ratio than its parent 308 case. Based on the game I've harvested with it, I'll not part with my 358 until I cross the divide. Then one of my daughters will get it to enjoy.

Mine's coming with me!

 

[F. Vaccaro]

A worthwhile 358 read:

358 WCF

A VERY good read!
you could also use.357 handgun bullets for plinking/practice.

 

[Josh P]

What is the minimum suggested barrel length for the 358? My Savage 11 Scout is a favorite rifle, but only because of personal reasons and the ergonomics. The .308 chambering does absolutely nothing for me, no rustling of the jimmies whatsoever. Every time I read about the 358, the little Elmer that sits on my shoulders whispers into my ear, "A 358 Scout would do the deed!" The kicker, however, is that this rifle only has a barrel length of 18 inches. If the rifle itself didn't hold any personal value, Id sell it in favor of something else entirely. Keeping it as is isn't a waste, and it wont collect much dust, but that little whisper wont shut up until 3 or 4 more people tell me the barrel is too short.

 

[MS 9x56]

What is the minimum suggested barrel length for the 358? My Savage 11 Scout is a favorite rifle, but only because of personal reasons and the ergonomics. The .308 chambering does absolutely nothing for me, no rustling of the jimmies whatsoever. Every time I read about the 358, the little Elmer that sits on my shoulders whispers into my ear, "A 358 Scout would do the deed!" The kicker, however, is that this rifle only has a barrel length of 18 inches. If the rifle itself didn't hold any personal value, Id sell it in favor of something else entirely. Keeping it as is isn't a waste, and it wont collect much dust, but that little whisper wont shut up until 3 or 4 more people tell me the barrel is too short.

It is not too short. It will be loud in a 358 but then so is the 308. My Browning BLR barrel is only 20” and I love it. Scratch that it and you won’t be sorry.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

Hello Josh. Sor

What is the minimum suggested barrel length for the 358? My Savage 11 Scout is a favorite rifle, but only because of personal reasons and the ergonomics. The .308 chambering does absolutely nothing for me, no rustling of the jimmies whatsoever. Every time I read about the 358, the little Elmer that sits on my shoulders whispers into my ear, "A 358 Scout would do the deed!" The kicker, however, is that this rifle only has a barrel length of 18 inches. If the rifle itself didn't hold any personal value, Id sell it in favor of something else entirely. Keeping it as is isn't a waste, and it wont collect much dust, but that little whisper wont shut up until 3 or 4 more people tell me the barrel is too short.

sorry friend but I can't recommend a longer barrel, especially on a Scout rifle. For the 358 and 308, a 18.5 to 20 inch barrel are optimum for a Scout. Velocity loss is minimal compared to a 22in barrel and at realistic hunting ranges you won't notice the difference. I've had a 358 Scout based on a Remington 600 in the past with a 18in barrel. Shot like no tomorrow and hit like Thor's hammer. Long story short I parted with it to secure another item and wish I still had it. One of my current Scouts is a 308 on a Remington 660. As I also shoot a Styer Scout I'm thinking real hard about rebarreling that 660 to 358 Win. That Savage of yours is easy to rebarrel and I do recommend the 358.

 

[HWL]

I have a Steyr-Mannlicher with a 20" barrel and it is a great gut....

HWL

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

What is the minimum suggested barrel length for the 358? My Savage 11 Scout is a favorite rifle, but only because of personal reasons and the ergonomics. The .308 chambering does absolutely nothing for me, no rustling of the jimmies whatsoever. Every time I read about the 358, the little Elmer that sits on my shoulders whispers into my ear, "A 358 Scout would do the deed!" The kicker, however, is that this rifle only has a barrel length of 18 inches. If the rifle itself didn't hold any personal value, Id sell it in favor of something else entirely. Keeping it as is isn't a waste, and it wont collect much dust, but that little whisper wont shut up until 3 or 4 more people tell me the barrel is too short.

@Josh P
20 to 22 inches would be ideal.
@Rick HOlbert has some great loads for the 358 and Paco Kelly article really enlightens people to the little Whelen.
Bob

 

[Josh P]

That Savage of yours is easy to rebarrel and I do recommend the 358.

I don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier, but I may keep an eye out for another damage barrel to have cut to 20" and rebored to 358.

 

[colorado]

My biggest problem with the .358 Winchester is the sectional density of the bullet - particular for anything bigger than whitetail or average black bear. Even with the 225 gr bullet, the load is light for caliber with sectional density around .25. That is a prescription for inadequate penetration on larger animals, particular if the presentation isn't perfect or the shot has to drive through heavy bone. Even the the 180 gr .308 reaches a SD of .27. Add to that the rounds low velocity and the penetration issues quickly compound not very far beyond the muzzle.

I really want one, but it's hard to see me hunting with it except for deer. My 7 1/2 lb (with scope) XCR II in 375 Weatherby shoots a 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps and a 350g Woodleigh HD SP at 2550. Except for woods hunting for deer or black bear (more of a NE thing) I can't see myself hunting with it in Colorado.

 

[MS 9x56]

I have the original scout style rifle( minus the scope). Mannlicher Schoenauer model 1905 in 9x56 ms. (Actually sits between the 358 Winchester and the 35 Whelen). Weighs 6.5 lbs with 20" barrel and full stock. Manufactured in 1920. Still works now as well as it did then. I have taken deer and wild hogs with it.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I really want one, but it's hard to see me hunting with it except for deer. My 7 1/2 lb (with scope) XCR II in 375 Weatherby shoots a 300g A-Frame at 2800 fps and a 350g Woodleigh HD SP at 2550. Except for woods hunting for deer or black bear (more of a NE thing) I can't see myself hunting with it in Colorado.

Yeah, your lightweight Weatherby is plenty for deer and pronghorn. Your .500 Jeff is also adequate for elk, moose and large bears. If you were to choose to hunt large DG in Africa, a .600 Overkill or similar might be the ticket? I think a .358 Win. would be a redundant cartridge in your arsenal, unless you want a lever action?