Why no love for the .358 Win?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I am Bob's unacknowledged cousin. The dusky sheep, as it were. The deadliest cartridge I have ever used is the .358 Winchester. That's why I'm dusky, it wasn't the Whelan.

@freefall
Consider yourself adopted mate. Us 35 owners have to stick together.

 

[freefall]

Sweet! Can I move into your basement? The Lovely Mrs would be willing to dig one if you don't have one, she is very energetic!

 

[flatwater bill]

Years ago I went to Namibia with Uncle Bob (no relation to AB). He took his BLR in 358 Win. It's performance on heavy plains game left nothing to be desired, and I vowed I'd have one some day. Until I fired it a few times. Recoil was heavy, but tolerable. But the trigger! It took two fingers and a toe to pull hard enough to get it to go off. Any hope of accuracy was lost by the time it bellowed. Bob had become accustomed to it, I could not. Would still like to get one in a short action, tang safety Ruger 77. We (he) used 250 grain Speer bullets with sec density .279 and ballistic coefficient of .446 at around 2230 fps. ....................FWB

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Sweet! Can I move into your basement? The Lovely Mrs would be willing to dig one if you don't have one, she is very energetic!

@freefall
Haven't got a basement but do have a spare room. Can't have your missus digging holes.

 

[MS 9x56]

Are you related to Bob 35 Whelen?

Kindred spirits maybe. Just 2 rifle loonie's with similar tastes and experiences in 2 different continents. Great minds think alike.

 

[MS 9x56]

Years ago I went to Namibia with Uncle Bob (no relation to AB). He took his BLR in 358 Win. It's performance on heavy plains game left nothing to be desired, and I vowed I'd have one some day. Until I fired it a few times. Recoil was heavy, but tolerable. But the trigger! It took two fingers and a toe to pull hard enough to get it to go off. Any hope of accuracy was lost by the time it bellowed. Bob had become accustomed to it, I could not. Would still like to get one in a short action, tang safety Ruger 77. We (he) used 250 grain Speer bullets with sec density .279 and ballistic coefficient of .446 at around 2230 fps. ....................FWB

That damn trigger is the BLR's major fault. Right after I got mine I drove 3 hours to drop it off at Neil Jones shop in Erie Pennsylvania. Neil is a magician on the BLR trigger. Mine arrived there with a measured 9 lb pull!!! When I got it back it was 3.5 lbs with no creep and breaks like glass. Took my groups from 2"-3" down to 1-1.5". Not many smiths will even attempt working on the BLR trigger. I don't understand why they vary so much but my sons was 4lbs right out of the box.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I like to tell You, why I have choosen the 358 Winchester:

First of all, I'm a 308 Win lover since I'm going hunting.
Easy brass, easy bullets, easy reloading, easy shooting, easy....easy....easy !!
Did I tell You yet ? I really do like easy !!
The only bitter taste with this dream 308 cartridge is coming up, when it's time for shooting at some bigger game! Yeah, I know, there are guys out there, shooting even elefants with a tiny 257 Roberts, but I'm more the "make-save-type ....." !
In our surroundings here in Germany we do have wild hogs around and they grow sometimes up to real monsters. To be a realist, my 308 Winnie is, even when loaded with those great Magtip from Speer in 150 grain, at it's end if trying to bag those 150kg woppers save.
When so, I wanna make sure to get hold of that beast at least and pack it into my deepfreezer for lots of bio steaks and roasts. My barrel in the 308 has 12", bigger bullets didn't do well, so I had to decide for someting more potencial.

Searching in the Speer and Hornady reloading books I found the 358 Winchester. Never heard of it.
Same brass like the 308, which made it on the first look quiet symphatic. In both book desriptions was written something strange like "is just a wood cartridge" , "....didn't made it, due to magnumania...." and something about "slooooow bullet".
One was even claiming, that this cartridge is not ideal!
But the ballistic charts beneath showed: 225 Grain at 2400 fps.... who the hell needs more ???

Sure... some guys need more fps, but I like good results more. Today I'm carrying a 358 Win custom made, loading 200 grain Sierra RN and never been dissapointed with the results. At those big hogs, this 358 Win is doing very well, killing instantly and final. No meat is unneseccarily waisted, no animal is lost or walked behind. No big recoil, more the Chevy type. And the Sierra bullets hold together like being bonded. (Sierra = Great product at good pricing. )
That are my personel requirements to a cartridge for my needs.

I would wish, more guys would be leaded by common sense, than by the meanings of manipulated, never-in-the-woods-editors of hunting magazines, magnum afine books, wild forum theories or crazy Youtube artists, always under pressure for sales figures or clicks.
Just use your brain and count 1+1 and You will find solutions for Your personal requirements, which make happy and satisfy all the way!!

Waidmannsheil!

Good day sir and great choice on caliber. I've been a long time shooter of the 358 and I concur with Bob and many others as to it's effectiveness on game. It preforms all out of proportion to what the paper figures suggest it should. I've used it in Africa on game up to Kudu and Zebra with excellent results and have never had to trail game after the shot. All were DRT! I started using the 225grn Barnes TSX but as long as that bullet is it compressed the powder more than I liked. There were no problems but still not ideal. I switched to the 225grn Swift A-Frame as it is a shorter bullet. That was a match made in heaven. Brush cartridge? Buffalo chips!! The old girl will reach out to any range an ethical hunter should shoot at a valuable game animal. By the way, Starline makes excellent brass for the 358. Keep the distance a little shorter and it will harvest all North American game including the great bears. It was brought out to replace the 348 Winchester and that cartridge was considered great big bear medicine back in the day. Factory ammo is held down in pressure because the gun writers back then (hacks) said it had horrible recoil. With modern actions and modern powders/load data you can boost the performance safely and have a very potent package on a short action. Enjoy your rifle sir. I think you'll enjoy it more and more as the years go by.

 

[robtattoo]

I'm a huge fan of the .358 Win.
A friend of mine in Alaska turned me on to it some years ago. I'd picked up a new, youth model Rem 700 ADL in .243, simply because it was on sale for $249 & well, you just can't leave that on the shelf, can you?!

I'd had a medium bore, short action project in mind for a while & had decided to go with .338 Federal. After a couple of conversations, he persuaded me that an extra .020" couldn't be a bad thing (he's not wrong, you know) and showed me his data. It's all he shoots & has a variety of loads for different uses. I sent the action to JES & picked up a used Brown's Precision stock, the some paint & a handy little VX2 2-7x33 scope on it & it's been pretty much my go-to bolt gun for the last 6 years.

I only have the 2 loads, but they've both been flawless. 140gn Hornady XTP pistol bullets at 1600fps as an incredibly light recoiling, small game & up-close load (where I do 75% of my hunting, 100yds would be a long shot) It drops our small, southern whitetail very effectively at this ranges. I'm not sure if want to chance it on a larger hog, but for average 60-100 pounders it works just fine. My second load is the, unfortunately discontinued, 220gn Speer running out to 2540fps over a load of TAC with a magnum primer. With a 200yd zero I'm very confident with it out to 300yds for my Western hunts for elk. Coincidentally, that zero puts my 140gn load 1" low at 100 & at 300, I have only a 9" holdover to worry about.

Recoil is stout, but tolerable. Even owning a .30-06, my little 'brush gun' .358 would be the last rifle I'd ever part with.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I really liked the original Winchester Super X 250Gr factory loads for the .358 Winchester (advertising a 2250fps velocity). I took a huge Sambar stag in Australia with one (a Savage Model 99) in 1984. The photo can be found on this forum. One double lung shot. He folded within 100 yards of running, after taking the shot.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I really liked the original Winchester Super X 250Gr factory loads for the .358 Winchester (advertising a 2250fps velocity). I took a huge Sambar stag in Australia with one (a Savage Model 99) in 1984. The photo can be found on this forum. One double lung shot. He folded within 100 yards of running, after taking the shot.

As I've said earlier in another post on the 358. At 105 yards on a BIG Kudu with a 225grn TSX, at 2530fps that bullet broke both shoulders and the spine. How much more horse power do you need?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm a huge fan of the .358 Win.
A friend of mine in Alaska turned me on to it some years ago. I'd picked up a new, youth model Rem 700 ADL in .243, simply because it was on sale for $249 & well, you just can't leave that on the shelf, can you?!

I'd had a medium bore, short action project in mind for a while & had decided to go with .338 Federal. After a couple of conversations, he persuaded me that an extra .020" couldn't be a bad thing (he's not wrong, you know) and showed me his data. It's all he shoots & has a variety of loads for different uses. I sent the action to JES & picked up a used Brown's Precision stock, the some paint & a handy little VX2 2-7x33 scope on it & it's been pretty much my go-to bolt gun for the last 6 years.

I only have the 2 loads, but they've both been flawless. 140gn Hornady XTP pistol bullets at 1600fps as an incredibly light recoiling, small game & up-close load (where I do 75% of my hunting, 100yds would be a long shot) It drops our small, southern whitetail very effectively at this ranges. I'm not sure if want to chance it on a larger hog, but for average 60-100 pounders it works just fine. My second load is the, unfortunately discontinued, 220gn Speer running out to 2540fps over a load of TAC with a magnum primer. With a 200yd zero I'm very confident with it out to 300yds for my Western hunts for elk. Coincidentally, that zero puts my 140gn load 1" low at 100 & at 300, I have only a 9" holdover to worry about.

Recoil is stout, but tolerable. Even owning a .30-06, my little 'brush gun' .358 would be the last rifle I'd ever part with.

@robtattoo Mate you are wise man. That was the best thing anyone could do with the horrible little 243.
Turn it into a REAL RIFLE that actually kills game. You have chosen well. Welcome to the 35 club buddy.
Bob

 

[Rick HOlbert]

As I've said earlier in another post on the 358. At 105 yards on a BIG Kudu with a 225grn TSX, at 2530fps that bullet broke both shoulders and the spine. How much more horse power do you need?

I've several of Elmer Keith's books in my library. Was reading through his book Gun Notes and found where the old master thought very highly of the 358 Winchester. Elmer was fond of big calibers and heavy for caliber bullets. For him to give his blessing for the 358 speaks volumes. He specified 225-250grn bullets at 2400fps as great medicine for any American game including big bear.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I've several of Elmer Keith's books in my library. Was reading through his book Gun Notes and found where the old master thought very highly of the 358 Winchester. Elmer was fond of big calibers and heavy for caliber bullets. For him to give his blessing for the 358 speaks volumes. He specified 225-250grn bullets at 2400fps as great medicine for any American game including big bear.

@Rick HOlbert.
Hell he was there he should know what he was talking about. That's why I'm looking forward to trying the big 275s and 310s in the Whelen on my scrub bull hunt. Big heavy and not to slow should work well. The 310s have a higher sd than the 350gn 375s and at 2,400fps should apply a lot of hurt.
Bob

 

[F. Vaccaro]

I've several of Elmer Keith's books in my library. Was reading through his book Gun Notes and found where the old master thought very highly of the 358 Winchester. Elmer was fond of big calibers and heavy for caliber bullets. For him to give his blessing for the 358 speaks volumes. He specified 225-250grn bullets at 2400fps as great medicine for any American game including big bear.

I think he liked the .35 Whelen too. He also liked the .333 OKH, which he helped design & is similar to the .338-06.
we owe a great deal to Mr Keith, he was a developer & probably ahead of his time.

 

[Rick HOlbert]

I think he liked the .35 Whelen too. He also liked the .333 OKH, which he helped design & is similar to the .338-06.
we owe a great deal to Mr Keith, he was a developer & probably ahead of his time.

Yes sir he did indeed like the 35 Whelen very much. It's one of the highlights of my life to have actually meet and known Elmer.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Yes sir he did indeed like the 35 Whelen very much. It's one of the highlights of my life to have actually meet and known Elmer.

Wow, I wish I’d been able to meet him. As close as I ever got were his books. I have a first edition Sixguns By Keith.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Yes sir he did indeed like the 35 Whelen very much. It's one of the highlights of my life to have actually meet and known Elmer.

@Rick HOlbert
The closest I got to meeting some one famous in the shooting world was Elgin Gates. He came to our town to talk about shooting and hunting with the school kids. We all got to have a couple of shots of trap with him. I was chosen to shoot a whole round of trap with him and spent some time talking to him afterwards. It was a great privilege for a young teenager and he was a very quietly spoken man.
Bob

 

[rdog]

@Rick HOlbert
The closest I got to meeting some one famous in the shooting world was Elgin Gates. He came to our town to talk about shooting and hunting with the school kids. We all got to have a couple of shots of trap with him. I was chosen to shoot a whole round of trap with him and spent some time talking to him afterwards. It was a great privilege for a young teenager and he was a very quietly spoken man.
Bob

To day if you wanted to teach school kids about guns & hunting, they would have a SWAT team arrest you.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

To day if you wanted to teach school kids about guns & hunting, they would have a SWAT team arrest you.

@rdog
Yes mate, certain things in our so called free country have turned to absolute shit.

 

[7x57Joe]

I was fortunate to meet Mr. Keith May 24, 1977 in Dallas, Texas. He was giving a lecture that night and autographed his books that morning. Spent the morning there and had great conversations with him between those having books signed and even have a picture of him holding my 3 year old daughter.
I bought my first .358 Winchester a couple of years later.