Why all the 6.5 Creedmoor Hate?

[Ray B]

i don't see a qualitative difference between the 6.5 PRC and the .264 Win Mag provided that both cartridges are headspaced on the shoulder and have the same rifling twist.

 

[Inline6]

i don't see a qualitative difference between the 6.5 PRC and the .264 Win Mag provided that both cartridges are headspaced on the shoulder and have the same rifling twist.

The difference now, 6.5PRC has more support meaning better brass.

Part of the problem that some people are not understanding. These newer cartridges are designed with higher BC bullets in mind. Like you are pointing out, the cartridge of yesterday doesn't have the twist rate to support the newer bullet technology. Sure you can rebarrel, that will not take care of the brass issue.

 

[Hogpatrol]

i don't see a qualitative difference between the 6.5 PRC and the .264 Win Mag provided that both cartridges are headspaced on the shoulder and have the same rifling twist.

The PRC has a tad more juice but I doubt any animal will know the difference.

 

[Ray B]

I have two questions regarding "better brass". 1. Chemical composition (newer brass stronger, more durable, etc? 2. Manufacturing tolerances- Case dimensional variance, neck thickness, etc? Just how are the new cases better than the old ones?

 

[Flewis]

i don't see a qualitative difference between the 6.5 PRC and the .264 Win Mag provided that both cartridges are headspaced on the shoulder and have the same rifling twist.

264 loaded to same pressure should be a little faster.

 

[Hogpatrol]

The difference now, 6.5PRC has more support meaning better brass.

Part of the problem that some people are not understanding. These newer cartridges are designed with higher BC bullets in mind. Like you are pointing out, the cartridge of yesterday doesn't have the twist rate to support the newer bullet technology. Sure you can rebarrel, that will not take care of the brass issue.

While Remington and Winchester were lost in the '50s with slow twist barrels, Tikka, Nosler, Ruger and Savage took market share with new cartridges.

 

[wesheltonj]

You are more than welcome to look at my stance on the subject. I have said many many times, the shot I personally will take at XXXX range will depend on conditions. The list of conditions is longer than just wind. The worst the conditions the closer the shot needs to be. For the record I'll say I have made 1st round impacts at a mile and I have missed at 300 yards. Nothing is a given, that's why I train. Now if condition were favorable, let's say we had a little mist so you can see we don't have wind...well we can send out a little more. I'm not one to advocate take it at 1k in 30mph winds across a canyon in switching winds with poor light. On the flip side if my only shot is at an elk 800 yards across a canyon and we have the right conditions. I have hit enough 4" targets at 800 to know if I can connect. I'm also not going to take the shot if I can't make it. I have nothing to prove. The only thing I owe is whatever animal I shoot the quickest death possible. I do have a conscience and I personally have had to put to many wounded animals by other down to know what that is about. I messed up my first deer with a bow, after that happen I shot arrows everyday from not only the ground but a tree stand. Get why most want to get close, love doing that myself. I'm just allowing myself to have options.

For me it depends on the time of the day as to how far of a shot I will take on an animal. The later in the day the closer the shot. I don’t want to be tracking in the dark losing an animal, which I have.

 

[WAB]

The difference now, 6.5PRC has more support meaning better brass.

Part of the problem that some people are not understanding. These newer cartridges are designed with higher BC bullets in mind. Like you are pointing out, the cartridge of yesterday doesn't have the twist rate to support the newer bullet technology. Sure you can rebarrel, that will not take care of the brass issue.

I’m playing with a custom rifle in 6.5 PRC. I’m not pushing it, 140 gr accubond LRs at 2,900 fps. I’ve got a lot of accurate rifles but I’ve never seen anything like this. I’m not saying I can do it every time, but I shot a 1/2”, 3 shot group at 300 yards recently.

 

[Inline6]

I’m playing with a custom rifle in 6.5 PRC. I’m not pushing it, 140 gr accubond LRs at 2,900 fps. I’ve got a lot of accurate rifles but I’ve never seen anything like this. I’m not saying I can do it every time, but I shot a 1/2”, 3 shot group at 300 yards recently.

That's some good shooting! A really good friend of mine that is a rifle builder calls the 6.5PRC the 6BR of the hunting cartridges. It just shoots stupid groups.

My 7PRC is ordered for the R8, I'm curious as to how it will perform.

 

[Inline6]

I have two questions regarding "better brass". 1. Chemical composition (newer brass stronger, more durable, etc? 2. Manufacturing tolerances- Case dimensional variance, neck thickness, etc? Just how are the new cases better than the old ones?

It is more consistent. Before we had options of tier 1 brass, Lapua was the best option bar none. It will also out last most other brass of that time. Like scope of today with many great options. We now have several great brass manufacturers to choose from.

When you are shooting little groups at distance, neck tension is key. It is one of the biggest factors with keeps your SDs in check (consistency). People were neck turning brass to help with that, it is not as problematic today due to advances in brass manufacturing. People still do it and there are some high dollar machines to speed it up. I'm not trying to set world records so .25MOA works for my tasks at hand.

 

[ActionBob]

No hate, but I think the 25-06, 264 Win Mag and 270 Win are all better rounds

They are indeed in all performance criteria. Except they are more likely to untie your manbun.

 

[Ray B]

It is more consistent. Before we had options of tier 1 brass, Lapua was the best option bar none. It will also out last most other brass of that time.

So the advantage of Lapua brass is convenience? that is, it's better than Winchester or Federal brass because I don't have to inside/outside neck turn the brass, then weigh each and place into groups by weight?
Back in the day (1980) I was handloading for several cartridges and standardized on Winchester so that pressure indicators would be similar from one to the next. I recall life expectancy of a case was a function of pressure- safe loads giving at least 10 loadings. the primary cause of wearing out was when the neck split. Is that the situation now with Lapua cases?

 

[Inline6]

So the advantage of Lapua brass is convenience? that is, it's better than Winchester or Federal brass because I don't have to inside/outside neck turn the brass, then weigh each and place into groups by weight?
Back in the day (1980) I was handloading for several cartridges and standardized on Winchester so that pressure indicators would be similar from one to the next. I recall life expectancy of a case was a function of pressure- safe loads giving at least 10 loadings. the primary cause of wearing out was when the neck split. Is that the situation now with Lapua cases?

The advantage is consistency, all brass will work harden. That is why you have to anneal, personally will anneal every time. The AMP makes it easy.

Some guys with the 6BR cases are getting 30+ firings from their brass. One guy (small sample) told me he had 40 on his. I have no reason not to believe him. No way in the world I can keep brass that long. Shooting field matches I would loose 1/2 my brass or more per match. Components in general have improved leaps and bounds in just the last 15 years. In the last 40, I have no way to compare. Would have to imagine even more so. Looking at reloading tools themselves, Area419 has just come out with a innovative set of dies. Now that innovation cost more than my first 2 reloading setups.

 

[CBH Australia]

They might me for you, a 9 year old or a lady my not be as comfortable. It is just another tool, the thing is everyone has a "favorite" the reality is most do not take the time to look from a different perspective. Example, take the 3 cartridges you have list. Would you take any of them out to 1300 yards? Unless you have custom barrels for heavy bullets you are going to run into issues. I have shot sub 1/2 MOA groups at 1300 yards with a 6.5CM, again it is a tool nothing more. If people want to get wrapped around the axle about it, that's on them.

The big difference in having to move forward and not wanting to stap away from the past. As a mechanic that has been successful in the industry. I'll willing to bet he is not rejetting and rebuilding as much as he is now hooking up a scanner. Same can be said for a draftsman. Going from a table to CAD.

I would think all 3 of those cartridges are capable at 1300 if they are set up for heavy bullets. All are accomplished hunting rounds. Creedmoor was set up for heavy bullets and target shooting. It's not magical it's just designed with different parameters.

 

[Inline6]

I would think all 3 of those cartridges are capable at 1300 if they are set up for heavy bullets. All are accomplished hunting rounds. Creedmoor was set up for heavy bullets and target shooting. It's not magical it's just designed with different parameters.

Could try to give you all the reasons, think the better approach would be look at what the shooters are shooting at competition's. If one has an advantage over the other, someone will start using it.

For the average guy, the other 3 are fine. Start adding in kids and smaller frame women. The CM makes more sense. Most of the older cartridge host do not have the twist rate to take advantage of the bullets we have today.

I can tell you 10 years ago I would not have thought about a 22 bullet that is 95grs. We are having a reamer cut for that bullet now. We should get close to 3200fps out of it. we need a 6.5 twist to get away with it (might be able to do a 7 because of speed), we are going to push the threshold of the bullet. When you start spinning them to 300k rpm they don't always stay together. Point is technological is pushing forward no one has to buy it, that is all personal choice. I like hitting small targets at long distance with the least amount of recoil possible. Also have a 458Lott for hunting. It is always nice to have options. No telling what the land scape is going to look like in another 10. We might have Ray guns and need batteries.

 

[ChrisG]

They are indeed in all performance criteria. Except they are more likely to untie your manbun.

C'mon! you and I both know that there is no way you can impress your vegan girlfriend by shooting with touseled hair!

 

[SaintPanzer]

Two more;

4. Most hunters are gullible morons.
5. You can't truly judge a caliber, unless it's 110 years old.

DB

110 years? That's like 1912. About right. For a minute, I thought you were going to say 100 years, and I'm not sure I'm ready for something as modern as 1922.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

They might me for you, a 9 year old or a lady my not be as comfortable. It is just another tool, the thing is everyone has a "favorite" the reality is most do not take the time to look from a different perspective. Example, take the 3 cartridges you have list. Would you take any of them out to 1300 yards? Unless you have custom barrels for heavy bullets you are going to run into issues. I have shot sub 1/2 MOA groups at 1300 yards with a 6.5CM, again it is a tool nothing more. If people want to get wrapped around the axle about it, that's on them.

The big difference in having to move forward and not wanting to stap away from the past. As a mechanic that has been successful in the industry. I'll willing to bet he is not rejetting and rebuilding as much as he is now hooking up a scanner. Same can be said for a draftsman. Going from a table to CAD.

Which shows that the 6.5Cm is good at what it was designed for. A long range target round. There is no good reason to shoot at a live animal at 1300 yards with any cartridge/bullet combination.

 

[Inline6]

Which shows that the 6.5Cm is good at what it was designed for. A long range target round. There is no good reason to shoot at a live animal at 1300 yards with any cartridge/bullet combination.

So...does that mean the list of cartridge I have done this with are not satisfactory either? 6X, 6CM,6.5PRC, 7WSM, 308, 300WM, 300NM,338LM ?

I never encouraged anyone to take that shot on an animal. I was stating the merits of the cartridge.

 

[Ray B]

My question regarding ultra long range shooting is what is the time of flight? And how much opportunity does the target have to move during that time?