Very good post to which I agree. Now how do we do to convey to
njc110381 that we are not fighting but that we are looking at things from different perspectives, both objective and viable, which makes the value of this forum...
Let me take a crack at it...
Considering that we are about the same age
Red Leg, I will guess that you toted the 23 lbs M60 in Ranger School. I carried the 22 lbs AA 52 at the Special Military Academy in France. Interestingly, it apparently produced the opposite effect. You "would just as soon not" lug a heavy weapon anymore. Conversely, to this day, I find an 11 lbs rifle delightfully light to carry all day
My rationale is that these extra 2 or 3 lbs that I do not feel, really soak up recoil so much that my 11 lbs 3 oz scoped Mark V .340 Wby (29 ft/lbs of recoil with 225 gr TTSX) recoils not much more than a 9 lbs 2 oz scoped Win M 70 .300 Win (24 ft/lbs of recoils with 180 gr TTSX); and my 10 lbs 10 oz .416 Rigby scoped CZ (55 ft/lbs of recoils with 400 gr TSX) does not recoil all that much more than a 7 lbs 6 oz .375 H&H Blaser R8 (44 ft/lbs of recoils with 300 gr). In both cases, the .340 and .416 deliver larger frontal area, significantly heavier bullets, and a lot stronger 'blow' however we want to measure it since we both agree that 'energy' is not all that it is cracked up to be...
And because an additional 2 or 3 lbs on my shoulder does not break this camel's back; because I personally find heavier rifles easier to control in the wind or with heavy breathing; and because the recoil levels are similar on the lighter rifles/calibers and my heavier rifles/calibers, I shoot my heavier rifles/calibers as well as others shoot their lighter rifles/calibers, and I hit bigger, heavier and harder.
There is no real arguing that whatever a .375 does to a buff a .416 does better, and whatever a mild .3o does to large plains games a strong .33 does better,
as long as all bullets land in the same place. To me, the extra 2 or 3 lbs to lug around are well worth the extra punch, without paying a real price in recoil, which is generally what sends bullets flying out of target... Most people do not shoot well a .375 that weighs the same as a 30-06. I do not, so it does not work for me.
Red Leg does, so it works for him.
That does not make me right over
Red Leg,
njc110381, it just means that we place our cost/benefit analysis in rifle weight vs. rifle power in two different places, while still delivering the same shots with similar recoils. As to whether .33 and .416 are NEEDED over .30 and .375, it is a matter of personal opinion. I personally do not think that it is NEEDED per se, but I personally like the extra margin of safety 10,000 miles and $10,000 away from home, and after all, when one drop of blood means you own it, as my byline says: there ain't not such thing as too dead.
Another example of different perspective,
njc110381, is that
Red Leg travels with one rifle. I always take two. My rationale is again that 10,000 miles and $10,000 away from home I will have a level of backup and I do not bet on a decent rifle being available in camp if mine somehow fails.
I hope that I do not come across as advocating shoddy accuracy, and God forbid I would come across as advocating shooting at an entire buff! But the reality is that buff, elk, moose, hartebeest, wildebeest, kudu, etc. never mind eland! all have a vital area exceeding 12" in diameter. A carefully placed bullet anywhere within this area will result in an ethical kill (some will be instantaneous, and some will inexplicably take longer, we all know that!) regardless of whether the bullet hits 2" right, left, high or low from one's point of aim, and this is assuming that said point of aim on the outside of the animal actually lines up perfectly with the very best placement on the internal organs... I agree that the shot needs to be "made ... very, very accurately" (and sometimes "quickly") but the point I was trying to make relating to shooting well a DG gun, is that one does not need a 1/4 MOA rifle and 1/2 MOA gunnery to hunt dangerous game... A hit anywhere in the upper-heart & lung 1/2 square foot area of a buff is not a hit "in the general proximity," it is in "exactly the right place"
Actually, and in full agreement with
Red Leg's strongly emphasized theme of client's responsibility, on DG I am fully comfortable with a scenarios where the shooter/rifle hits a buff consistently, each time, every time within 2 or even 3 MOA (i.e. 2" or even 3" group at 100 yd). As hinted previously, I would bet pretty solid money that few people, including the PHs themselves, can do much better with iron sights
PS: I am curious
Red Leg, is the R8 .375 H&H really 6 lbs 6 oz without scope as the Blaser info states?
