What is the future of the fine firearms market

[Alistair]

Congratulations! I’ve only seen a Lange and Sohne a handful of times in my life, all of them on the wrists of homeless looking fellows in Bal Harbour north of Miami, hopping into their super cars. It’s the crème de la crème of Swiss timepieces. I doubt I’ll be buying a $300,000 watch anytime soon, but you have impecable tastes.

I recommend with your means, you should get a few Hartman & Weis rifles on order while they’re still alive. No finer bolt action gun ever made and not only are they beautiful, but they’ll deliver dividends in the years ahead.

German, actually, but thanks!

I'm not in the market for $100,000+ pieces right now, but one of their entry level dress watches as a gift to myself for completing my MBA was something I could (just about) countenance. Lange is probably my favorite watch brand so having one of them as the pinnacle of my collection seems appropriate, even if it was A LOT of money for me.

One of these, for those who like pretty pictures: https://www.alange-soehne.com/us-en...onia-moon-phase-in-18-carat-pink-gold-384-031

Hartman & Weis is also beyond my means honestly, but maybe one day!

 

[leslie hetrick]

you just have to want it enough.

 

[deewayne2003]

As a child of the 80’s I can assure you that quality is not lost on the younger consumer, the money just isn’t there to purchase.

If you adjusted for inflation the average 3 bedroom house is the USA should be $175K today; in actuality it’s $450K.

Point being - cost of living is so high that only those born into generational wealth (under 50 yo) are able to afford fine guns; so we’ll see how the prices hold in the next 20 years.

 

[charlieb]

35 years old here and I am holding the line for walnut stocks and blued steel! Even if I can't afford a double or a high grade bolt gun. Black plastic has its place, but it is not a priority for me.

34 and with you!

 

[Stamp Collector]

Nicer firearms by definition are a niche market. Over the longterm they’ll retain more value and are probably less susceptible to politics but short term a Glock or a run of the mill AR is usually going to be a quicker sale.

 

[bobdahunter84]

I walked around 2 local gun shows today, and the crowd was substantial at both. I was surprised at the diversity there. Variety of ages, races, sexes, even families. So while I think the overall gun market is strong, not sure about the continued demand for the older classics.

I'm 39 years young, and typically feel like an outlier for my own personal tastes. In terms of rifles, I pretty much solely look for pre 64 model 70s and old weatherbys. I really am a sucker for a custom pre 64 70 with a nice piece of wood, and a chambering I don't already have. But I really don't think I'm of the demographic of a typical classical gun collector.

Of the 50 or 60 guns in my safe, do I have synthetic stocks? Sure, a handful. But even when I'm hunting, I typically want a beautiful wooden stock in my hand.

I do consider them investments in that I know they have value. But I'm not a guy that would ever buy a gun that's so nice/expensive, that I wouldn't want to take it in the field. But I also don't use them as a walking stick and beat them to hell. I'm not going to spend $7k or $8k on a gun to let it collect dust--I'm going to shoot it!

 

[John Camp]

The new generation thinks little of walnut and blued steel.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Does anyone have any idea todays value of an original Rigby Dangerous Game SSB
Magnum Mauser .416 Rigby in well cared for condition? I believe 159 were made.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The new generation thinks little of walnut and blued steel.

Yep.

 

[0002S]

Some are confusing the ‘fine’ firearms market with their personal ‘holy grail’ firearm wants.

Actual fine firearms are limited in supply and appeal to a niche market. They usual hold their value, relative to inflation. Depending on type and or provenance, increase in value, relative to inflation, over time.

Real wealth isn’t effected by current financial market conditions. Sitting on the sidelines is sometimes confused with lack of cash flow.

Deals on fine firearms are usually due to relationships rather than market conditions.

True in both women and fine firearms. ”For everyone you skip, you will always be behind, and never catch up”

 

[uplander01]

Been working in the gun industry in the US for over 20 years and we all ask ourselves the same question. While clearly the younger generation is obsessed with tech stuff and the latest developments in calibers, there are more sport shooters now than ever before. There are more shooting events and styles than ever before, more shooting clubs and ranges than ever before. Will any of them ever appreciate a hh or westley, I’m sure some will if they are exposed to it. Another question is if the industry is in such despair, how in the hell are the sci shows so busy? Why are good African outfitters booked 2 years in advance? Why does it take 2-3 years to have a rifle built by a fine maker? It takes a year just to have a rifle rebarreled by griffin howe (doing that right now). Fact is the firearms industry is bigger than it’s ever been. Suffering from a post covid hangover, but all my clients tell me their numbers in 23 are ahead of 2019…so growth. For me, I have trouble understanding what it would have been like to grow up in a house without browning or Winchester guns from the 50’s and 60’s laying around all over the place. IMO, that era of American manufacture is the gateway to the real “fine” gun market. Fact is I haven’t seen the pre64 m70 market go down at all in 20 years. Who’s buying all that shit, guys that finishing collections? Or is it the younger generation buying here and there something that reminds them of their grandpa. I don’t have the answers but I can tell you this. If someone would have told me 20 years ago I would be making my living in the future selling $2000 plastic camo shotguns I would have laughed in their face. I paid $4500 for my first Dakota safari 375 sometime around 1997, lmao. This is a long winded commentary so I will only make one last comment or observation. It seems like a lot of the hunting this younger generation wants to get into is far more social—-meaning they want to go somewhere with a group and enjoy the social experience of it all. Waterfowling, pheasant hunting, deer camp, etc.

 

[tarbe]

This thread reinforces the old saw "different strokes for different folks".

We are not all wired the same....and each of us has a number of different circuits that may be active, at different times.

80% (at least) of the general population thinks we are all nuts.

That is fine with me. Keeps the supply/demand in the proper place where we can hope to indulge.

And @rookhawk - keep after it. I started with 80 acres and within 4 years had snagged another 201 acres contiguous with the original 80. It happens!!

 

[Challer]

I understand the used timepiece market is softer than it was a year ago but Rolex, Omega and the like are still getting retail value on the new stuff and above that on the special editions with wait lists topping a year.

You can going into nearly any Rolex boutique and find there are no watches for sale, only display models, so that you may get on a list. Most used Rolex are selling well above retail and retail is very hard to find.

Long lines for custom guns is only because there are few to make them

But that has nothing to with fine firearms. Today at Richmond gun show saw two H&H shotguns sub $5k. There we plenty of classic doubles and BB in the 2k range. Mostly from collections of former soldiers stationed in Europe back when. All a tiny island compared to the vast sea of tactical kit.

Demand for fine guns is currently way down. Rolex watches way up.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I grew up with wood and blued steel and worked with metal in my profession. I can appreciate fine craftmanship but the generations growing up now are inured with stainless and carbon fiber covered barrels; composite, plastic, aluminum and chassis stocks; and telescopic sights. Decades from now, I wonder what effect that will have on the premium firearm market.

 

[BeeMaa]

You can going into nearly any Rolex boutique and find there are no watches for sale, only display models, so that you may get on a list. Most used Rolex are selling well above retail and retail is very hard to find.

Long lines for custom guns is only because there are few to make them

But that has nothing to with fine firearms. Today at Richmond gun show saw two H&H shotguns sub $5k. There we plenty of classic doubles and BB in the 2k range. Mostly from collections of former soldiers stationed in Europe back when. All a tiny island compared to the vast sea of tactical kit.

Demand for fine guns is currently way down. Rolex watches way up.

Somewhere around 2005 the prices of Rolex started going off the charts. I've seen recently that you can buy a new Rolex from boutique (wait listed of course), wear it for a couple of years...then sell it for a profit on the used market. Currently the Daytona models are through the roof on the used market.

I've always been an Omega man so it's meant very little to me. As for the sea of tactical and the tiny island of classics...I'd like to say that I'm surprised, but I'm not. That's pretty much how it's been at most gun shows for the past 30 years, but it's been ramping up more and more. I'm happy to see people buying firearms in general, but the fancy wood, engraving, double barrels, sidelocks and polish bluing is being pushed to the rear. Supply and demand, can't sell what people don't want.

I suppose this would be the wrong time for me to say that I'm looking at buying an AR...

 

[Flewis]

Thank God I still think for myself and buy what I want, not what others think I should have.

 

[Tiger2001]

Yeah, we’re a dying breed tragically.

Synthetic stocks, camo patterns, multi-choke tubes, tactical looking platforms, light-for-caliber bullets. All of these are steadily becoming the norm. I certainly don’t oppose any of these things.

But I do miss the good old days where classical firearms could more easily be found.

Hell, it’s hard enough finding a good quality non-Turkish side by side shotgun that’s currently produced today.

Of course, there is still hope amongst the younger generations. My grandson for instance… prefers walnut stocks to synthetic, anyday.
View attachment 568720

Great photo. Where is he in that pic and what weapon is that?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Great photo. Where is he in that pic and what weapon is that?

Why thank you, Tiger.

It’s in Tanzania and that’s a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum.

 

[Aaron N]

I think you guys are missing one point about the younger generations. They didn’t wake up wanting a black plastic gun, they were pushed on them by companies wanting to sell low cost easy to produce products.

If all the YouTubers were paid as much to plug dakotas as opposed to AR’s, you’d see the market shift.

 

[rookhawk]

you have to remember, there are 80 year old gun collectors out there that did well in two camps:

1.) the collector that just got lucky. This guy bought a lot of pre-64 winchesters and kept them in the box when they were $100 in the 70s. He collected one of every caliber. This guy also bought older winchesters in good condition and didn’t use them. He got lucky, he accumulated something cheap and plentiful, accidentally selecting winchesters rather than Remingtons or savages.

2.) the savvy investor. He bought griffin and Howe’s used for $250. He bought double rifles on the 70s for $250 when no ammo existed. He bought Sedgley for $50. He bought niedners, and other pre ww2 best guns made in America for next to nothing.

Never mistake lucky for good.