What is the future of the fine firearms market

[leslie hetrick]

i will turn 80 on the 15th of nov, and i worked heavy highway for a long time and made good money. but my start was on a farm working for very little money as my father needed cheap labor to keep his head and farm above water. so i knew the value of the dollar at a young age. growing up in that era of wood and steel firearms was all i knew, the tupperwear stocks were in the distance future. i did have a large collection of firearms of all makes and have been down sizing for a few years now, selling and gifting some to lone time friends. i would like to get down to a hundred that i realy love and pass them on to my sons. i will continue to hunt and shoot as long as the lord will let me.

 

[CoElkHunter]

i will turn 80 on the 15th of nov, and i worked heavy highway for a long time and made good money. but my start was on a farm working for very little money as my father needed cheap labor to keep his head and farm above water. so i knew the value of the dollar at a young age. growing up in that era of wood and steel firearms was all i knew, the tupperwear stocks were in the distance future. i did have a large collection of firearms of all makes and have been down sizing for a few years now, selling and gifting some to lone time friends. i would like to get down to a hundred that i realy love and pass them on to my sons. i will continue to hunt and shoot as long as the lord will let me.

Happy Birthday Leslie!

 

[Sideshow]

I'd disagree strongly on the watch comment. I subscribe to a second hand website dealing in fine pieces. Mostly because they do amazing presentation videos of YouTube.

I’ve been constantly deluged with offers and price reduction notices on all the entry level stuff for the past year or so. Rolex, Omega, Panerai etc. Thousands and thousands of dollars in price reductions vs just 9 months ago on all of them.

The more premium stuff like Patek seem to be holding strong for now, I guess because the average buyer of such things is wealthy enough to be somewhat insulated from recession fears and inflationary pressures in a way that the aspirational middle class who'd be in the market for a second hand Rolex are not.

Link: https://www.watchfinder.com/?gad_so...6UjZP3-_QKLBgCVSJnuCz84n5ufJ_RkRoC7xoQAvD_BwE

Cars are seeing a bit of a pull back as well, if only because they market got incredibly frothy during 22. That I think is less likely to continue because just like the Patek comment, people who are willing and able to drop 6 figures on an old Porsche or whatever are again insulated to a degree.

You will find that most people don’t need a watch anymore as they use their phone. Also all the app watches seem to be in.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I have a significant empty Bourbon bottle collection that seems to grow on a weekly basis…then the garbage man comes by and helps me donate them to the recycling company

HH

 

[tarbe]

Much of the world, but especially we Americans, always think of a thing’s value in terms of how many dollars it costs.

The higher dollar prices we see for many items is really not so much their value going up as it is the purchasing power of the dollar is shrinking.

If you think of an item’s value relative to gold today, as opposed to 100 years ago, things look considerably different.

A rifle that cost $20 (a 1 ounce gold double eagle) 140 years ago, costs 1 ounce of gold today, or ~$2000. So the value of the rifle has gone up 100 fold relative to dollars but it is the same relative to gold.

Currency debasement makes things go up in currency terms, and steals the value of our previous work that we have saved is up in the currency. This is deceiving.

 

[Alistair]

You will find that most people don’t need a watch anymore as they use their phone. Also all the app watches seem to be in.

Maybe so, but mechanical watches haven't been needed, or 'useful' or 'good value' for at least 50 years. They're a labor of love for enthusiasts, or a fashion accessory for plebs.

Most 'fine' items be it watches or guns or cars or wine have nothing to do with need and everything to do with want.

 

[rookhawk]

Maybe so, but mechanical watches haven't been needed, or 'useful' or 'good value' for at least 50 years. They're a labor of love for enthusiasts, or a fashion accessory for plebs.

Most 'fine' items be it watches or guns or cars or wine have nothing to do with need and everything to do with want.

Alastair’s comment is in sync with the mentality of the non-firearm collector. A Casio tells time and an Apple Watch will tell you your heart rate, that’s all somebody needs.

Except that a Casio has 100% depreciation as does the Apple Watch. Value reaches zero in 4 years.

Rolex professional series watches? The one I bought for $7200 new in 2014 is worth $20,000 today. Some of the watches others purchased for $300 in 1965 are worth a quarter million today.

For me, I try to buy things of lasting quality that are also alternative asset classes. I’ve just about paid off my hunting and fishing lodge, the sale of alternative assets should make me 100% debt free before April. A Casio cannot do that. A plastic rifle cannot do that.

Best part? I got to hunt with fine guns and I got to wear fine watches and I got to read first editions and enjoy fine art for decades. My 401k doesn’t provide the same level of enjoyment.

 

[PCC600]

When I bought my fine shotguns or double rifle or 416 Rigby, I didn't give secondary market much thought--same way I look at art, as I collect contemporary painting and sculpture. I buy to enjoy it myself, not as an investment. If something in my collection happens to appreciate in value over the years, fine. If it doesn't, no worries. I enjoy shooting them anyway.

I could not agree more . If I am thinking about my investment I think about shares, commercial and residential property . If I think about my H&H , Rigby , Purdey and WR rifles I think about actually when / where I use them and my friends who accompany me . Great memories .

 

[rookhawk]

I could not agree more . If I am thinking about my investment I think about shares, commercial and residential property . If I think about my H&H , Rigby , Purdey and WR rifles I think about actually when / where I use them and my friends who accompany me . Great memories .

That philosophy is just fine, but it means that you’ll own less art and guns. Everyone has only so much money to dedicate to indulgent luxuries and only so much money to dedicate to traditional investments like stocks, bonds, metals, and real property.

I have a friend that is a fairly blue collar fellow. Wears sweat shirts and jean shorts with white tube socks and sneakers literally every day of his life. But he does enjoy wine quite a bit and he has an excellent palate. He buys collector grade wine when issued, drinks most of the case, and every 7-10 years he barters the last 1-2 bottles for another 1-2 CASES of high quality new issues. So wine is his thing, and he has a $25,000 a year wine habit, but his net-cost for his habit is very close to zero. I can relate to this mentality, because he views his passions in light of their alternative asset class, just like guns, watches, cars, and art.

The more conscientious you are about the indulgences you buy, the more of them you can enjoy. Or, you can just view a purchase as a one-way trip to the trash heap.

I have a million stories like these in my life, and they’ve covered my ass in many a pickle. I remember when my wife was pregnant with our first, it was 100 degrees out, and our A/C and furnace died. Needed a new Carrier furnace and Air Conditioner for $12,000. The business that came out to give the quote was asking me a lot about a set of jousting armor I had displayed in the corner. (I bought it for $75 at an estate sale when I was 16 and spent a month restoring it). I got the furnace and A/C, he got a suit of plate mail and a broad sword. I’d say it was a good ROI on my $75 over 15 years.

I try very hard not to make financial mistakes, and I do my best to educate other sportsmen to understand what a best gun is versus an expensive gun, cost and value don’t correlate.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Yeah, we’re a dying breed tragically.

Synthetic stocks, camo patterns, multi-choke tubes, tactical looking platforms, light-for-caliber bullets. All of these are steadily becoming the norm. I certainly don’t oppose any of these things.

But I do miss the good old days where classical firearms could more easily be found.

Hell, it’s hard enough finding a good quality non-Turkish side by side shotgun that’s currently produced today.

Of course, there is still hope amongst the younger generations. My grandson for instance… prefers walnut stocks to synthetic, anyday.

 

[VertigoBE]

I for one, would love to find a 9.3x62 at anything under $1000usd

I could have bought one today, on a sporter Mauser action, fully engraved, nice wood, etc. for around 1000$, made by a guy who used to work at Dumoulin. Still said no thank you.

 

[Wheels]

Still trying to figure out why this is posted in the classified section?

I wasn't sure where to post it and figured the classifieds were where the collectors would look and I would get the best response.

 

[Throwback]

Well hell. Reading all this is very interesting and I guess the positive outlook on it is I should be able to find some good deals on blued, wood stocked classics which I love. I do own a little bit of everything (Purdey to Glock to, etc) but lean hard to the wood and steel in all types of guns. I have guns owned by my great, great grandfather (and on down the family tree) that I would never part with. To each his own and please, anyone looking to sell some decent classics post away on AH! Some 375H&H and 300H&H mags would be great.

 

[Alistair]

Alastair’s comment is in sync with the mentality of the non-firearm collector. A Casio tells time and an Apple Watch will tell you your heart rate, that’s all somebody needs.

Except that a Casio has 100% depreciation as does the Apple Watch. Value reaches zero in 4 years.

Rolex professional series watches? The one I bought for $7200 new in 2014 is worth $20,000 today. Some of the watches others purchased for $300 in 1965 are worth a quarter million today.

For me, I try to buy things of lasting quality that are also alternative asset classes. I’ve just about paid off my hunting and fishing lodge, the sale of alternative assets should make me 100% debt free before April. A Casio cannot do that. A plastic rifle cannot do that.

Best part? I got to hunt with fine guns and I got to wear fine watches and I got to read first editions and enjoy fine art for decades. My 401k doesn’t provide the same level of enjoyment.

Lol. This is the perspective of a guy who has several omegas, a grand seiko, and has just placed an order for a piece from a lange und sohne.

It's also coming from a guy with a multiple thousand dollar collection of fountain pens.

No fine firearms yet, but only a matter of time.

However, whilst I am definitely a person who likes nice things and likes collecting, I'm not for a second going to claim that my lange will be a better watch than my radio controlled, solar powered citizen. It's wont be, by any objective measure.

I also do not buy these things as investments. I buy them because I want to enjoy them. I have no intention of ever selling them and if I do, any value they retain is a happy bonus. I have a stock and share portfolio to generate returns. This stuff is pure discretionary purchases for enjoyment.

 

[Rare Breed]

Alastair’s comment is in sync with the mentality of the non-firearm collector. A Casio tells time and an Apple Watch will tell you your heart rate, that’s all somebody needs.

Except that a Casio has 100% depreciation as does the Apple Watch. Value reaches zero in 4 years.

Rolex professional series watches? The one I bought for $7200 new in 2014 is worth $20,000 today. Some of the watches others purchased for $300 in 1965 are worth a quarter million today.

For me, I try to buy things of lasting quality that are also alternative asset classes. I’ve just about paid off my hunting and fishing lodge, the sale of alternative assets should make me 100% debt free before April. A Casio cannot do that. A plastic rifle cannot do that.

Best part? I got to hunt with fine guns and I got to wear fine watches and I got to read first editions and enjoy fine art for decades. My 401k doesn’t provide the same level of enjoyment.

just curious what state is your lodge in and we’ll done!!!

 

[PerH]

I tried to sell a .450 Ne on a Ruger be 1 a few years ago to a gun store here in trade for another gun they had . Sure they could take the Ruger and all parts , brass dies bullets I had . I said that was fine but what with the trade . No that they could not do , so they wanted my rifle for free and not pay me anything for it unless on commission and then a hefty sum of that for them first .

So I traded it with other guns for a Blaser 93 , the other guns was a Browning B25 , a m98 in .404 , and a custom bench rest grade REM 700 in 6mm . Not much value for it it was .


All was second hands , and not much use for them I had sadly .

 

[PerH]

And someone else over here about same time sold a Ruger Rsm .416 Rigby at a store with dies and 1 box brass for 600 dollar . Could not get any more for it . No response on sale adds either

But it was under the 6 hunt guns limit and some cops were iffy on large cartridges then also



(As it was then

Not now

All cartridges above .460 had to be approved on DOJ level , all other on local police levels )

 

[rookhawk]

just curious what state is your lodge in and we’ll done!!!

Western WI. I found a lovely small lodge on 1300’ of trout river frontage and whitetail / turkey habitat. While I wish it was thousands of acres, its a nice place and the forest was hilly enough that it remained virgin for the past 200 years whereas everywhere else adjacent is Ag land. I’m blessed.

Next step, acquiring contiguous land to grow the property.

Alternative asset classes made it all possible.

 

[rookhawk]

and has just placed an order for a piece from a lange und sohne.

Congratulations! I’ve only seen a Lange and Sohne a handful of times in my life, all of them on the wrists of homeless looking fellows in Bal Harbour north of Miami, hopping into their super cars. It’s the crème de la crème of Swiss timepieces. I doubt I’ll be buying a $300,000 watch anytime soon, but you have impecable tastes.

I recommend with your means, you should get a few Hartman & Weis rifles on order while they’re still alive. No finer bolt action gun ever made and not only are they beautiful, but they’ll deliver dividends in the years ahead.

 

[Rare Breed]

Western WI. I found a lovely small lodge on 1300’ of trout river frontage and whitetail / turkey habitat. While I wish it was thousands of acres, its a nice place and the forest was hilly enough that it remained virgin for the past 200 years whereas everywhere else adjacent is Ag land. I’m blessed.

Next step, acquiring contiguous land to grow the property.

Alternative asset classes made it all possible.

very well done!!!