What is an adequate back-up rifle for a Professional Hunter..?

[Panielsen]

View attachment 45445 Note the re-enforcing iron used in home made gun. A few Ak bullets, we shot the elephant after seeing he was in a bad way, some bullets look like they had been in him years.

These are the kinds of stories and photos that need shared to the anti-hunting community. It shows evidence that poaching is out of control, and legal hunting is the only thing fighting it financially. Thank you for sharing, and putting down that suffering elephant!

 

[tarbe]

*cost of amunition (in SA around $200 + a box)

My best always.

$1.50 each for a great bullet you would bet your life on (Barnes, A-Frame...a little bit more for a Northfork)

$1 per case (use for practice ammo on subsequent loads, so they are even cheaper)

$0.03 for a primer

$0.22 for powder

.458 Lott loaded in a new case with premium bullet = $55 per box of 20. Subsequent practice loads with cheaper bullets are about $25/box.

Thank God for handloading and a place I can buy powder for $20/pound and bullets for reasonable prices.

It would be awfully difficult to shoot enough $10/round ammo to get really good with a heavy rifle. My hat is off to anyone who can do it!


Tim

 

[siml]

Tarbe, you will be amazed how quickly you learn to shoot straight with 15$ a round.

 

[tarbe]

Tarbe, you will be amazed how quickly you learn to shoot straight with 15$ a round.

Necessity being the mother of invention, and all.

 

[Scott Slough]

This seems to be a PH school question, not an AH anybody with an Internet connection question.

 

[siml]

Scott, I would say that depends on which PH school a person attended.

 

[Royal27]

Scott, I would say that depends on which PH school a person attended.

How about ACME?

 

[Foxi]

Hi Foxi, it's not rely difficult to find 450 Rigby ammo from Norma in Zambia, but the price is much higher than in RSA.
So, the best concept is to buy them in RSA, or shooting less ...

Gordon,I found that sentence
Cartridges must be expensive - in memory at the fact that the life is a wealth which one should waste not too frivolously.
Foxi

 

[DUGABOY1]

I would say the .500 is for the old and wise..........

.....................PLUS one! don't want to be around when a big male lion is attempted to be stoped with buckshot!

 

[IvW]

For DG stopping rifles-500gr bullet from a reliable rifle cartridge combination. I use a 500 Jeff built on a ZKK 602 Magnum action. Perfect for Buff, Rhino, Ele, Lion and Hippo on land.

For Leopard charge stopping a bolt gun becomes a bit of an issue. After having a hair raising encounter early on with a wounded leopard, I realised I need a double of sorts as you do not have time to reload a bolt action rifle when a leopard charges. I could not afford a proper double so I started experimenting with a side x side shotgun. I used a sidelock BRNO, cut the barrels down to 24 inches, fitted a front sight and a rear ghost ring. I tested various slugs and buckshot and on a number of different animals and came to the conclusion that Brenneke slugs where the best way to go. This "poor man's double" has served me well ever since and regulates well out to 50 yards.

More recently I have been able to buy a well made combination gun with a 9.3 x 74R/12 ga barrel set, I have used this with just as much satisfaction.

I would also love to have a big double rifle for use in thicker bush and also while I am doing DG photographic foot safaris. I have always wanted one and by golly one of these days I will. When I do it will be in 500 3 1/4' NE or 500 3' NE.

Yes as mentioned shot placement and penetration are the two main factors when having to stop a charge, however if you can achieve the same shot placement with the same or better penetration with a larger caliber, that will always be the better option.

 

[Timbo]

Buck shot and only in close

As an aside, my Dad said he swore by "LG" in his shotgun when after tiger. The difference between LG and buckshot/"SG" was that LG only had 5 pellets.

It'd be interesting to know if LG is available?

 

[IvW]

As an aside, my Dad said he swore by "LG" in his shotgun when after tiger. The difference between LG and buckshot/"SG" was that LG only had 5 pellets.

It'd be interesting to know if LG is available?

Yip LG is still available. However I found that using any of them was only effective when applied at the closest possible distance. I could not always wait for that time so like the better penetration of the solid slug which gave very reliable penetration even further out and then leaving you the second one for the last possible moment.

From a old book-A Hunters handbook by Tim Ivins, I would agree with his recommendations and I have used them successfully as far as shot size goes namely:

7,8,9=Pigeons and Quail
6,7=Francolin
4,5,6=Guinea fowl,duck,teal
1,2,3=Geese
1,AAA=Blue duiker,suni,sharp's greys buck
AAA=Steenbuck,red & grey duiker
SSG,SG=Bushbuck, reedbuck
LG=bushpig??

Slugs=lion,leopard,bushpig

Older hunters had bigger balls than us! Personally I only use LG on bushpig when I hunt them in corn fields with low visibility with a slug in the second barrel. For leopard only slugs. Lion-only proper expanding bullets from a rifle.

SSG-special small game
SG-small game
LG-large game

 

[Timbo]

Yip LG is still available. However I found that using any of them was only effective when applied at the closest possible distance. I could not always wait for that time so like the better penetration of the solid slug which gave very reliable penetration even further out and then leaving you the second one for the last possible moment.

From a old book-A Hunters handbook by Tim Ivins, I would agree with his recommendations and I have used them successfully as far as shot size goes namely:

7,8,9=Pigeons and Quail
6,7=Francolin
4,5,6=Guinea fowl,duck,teal
1,2,3=Geese
1,AAA=Blue duiker,suni,sharp's greys buck
AAA=Steenbuck,red & grey duiker
SSG,SG=Bushbuck, reedbuck
LG=bushpig??

Slugs=lion,leopard,bushpig

Older hunters had bigger balls than us! Personally I only use LG on bushpig when I hunt them in corn fields with low visibility with a slug in the second barrel. For leopard only slugs. Lion-only proper expanding bullets from a rifle.

SSG-special small game
SG-small game
LG-large game

Thanks for that wealth of info! Nice to know, too, that LG is still being used!

My experience with this type of shotgun ammunition encompasses SG, ball cartridge (slugs) and SSG as available here in Australia. But my Dad used his shotgun at only the closest of ranges (otherwise he wouldn't have been able to live long enough to tell me about it! Lol!). He either went on foot during daylight, or using a machan at night.

At night he'd use a kitchen table, upon which was tethered a young goat. Hanging above the goat was a kerosene lamp, with the light softened and diffused by brown paper. Camouflaged by greenery close by, my Dad would wait, sitting in a kitchen chair lashed to a suitable branch.

The goat feeling hungry, cold and lonely would bleat like heck all night, attracting the tiger: as in my Dad's precise words "By God he'd come running!" As soon as the tiger put his paws on the table exposing his face and chest, Dad would hit him with the LG. He said the LG did the trick every time!

 

[CTDolan]

Would a heavily constructed shotgun slug stop a charging elephant? Something like a 600 grain brenneke slug at about 1500 fps out of a muzzle?

No. You’re talking a frontal brain shot, quite possibly one that has to enter the head low. The penetration will be insufficient.

 

[Red Leg]

No. You’re talking a frontal brain shot, quite possibly one that has to enter the head low. The penetration will be insufficient.

Agree - not even close to enough penetration. Lead alloy slugs with large frontal areas would be lucky to penetrate more than a very few inches of bone. I have used my 12 bore Evans Paradox quite a bit on game. It fires a 740 grain lead alloy "bullet" when used as a rifle (2 1/2" 4-shot groups at 1oo yards). It will kill any soft-skinned animal on earth, and I would think of it as an ideal stopper on leopard. I think it would work as well on lion, but would prefer a rifle. Under ideal conditions, with specially hardened bullets, a Paradox will kill a buffalo, but I wouldn't want to try to stop a charge. As much as I like it and have confidence in it, I would, at best, greatly irritate an elephant.

 

[IvW]

Agree - not even close to enough penetration. Lead alloy slugs with large frontal areas would be lucky to penetrate more than a very few inches of bone. I have used my 12 bore Evans Paradox quite a bit on game. It fires a 740 grain lead alloy "bullet" when used as a rifle (2 1/2" 4-shot groups at 1oo yards). It will kill any soft-skinned animal on earth, and I would think of it as an ideal stopper on leopard. I think it would work as well on lion, but would prefer a rifle. Under ideal conditions, with specially hardened bullets, a Paradox will kill a buffalo, but I wouldn't want to try to stop a charge. As much as I like it and have confidence in it, I would, at best, greatly irritate an elephant.

Agreed, you will only upset an elephant with a slug.
I would not hesitate using a Brenneke slug on a lioness and have used them a lot on leopard and plains game. I would however not like to stop a wounded male lion or buffalo on a charge with one.

Well placed initial shots can kill much better than their ballistics suggest.

A good friend of mine and a man who did his hunting in times long gone, Ginger van Zyl, shot a old dagga boy very dead with one brenneke slug out of his combination gun in what was then Northern Rhodesia(Zambia)!

The effectiveness of Brenneke slugs cannot be doubted when used for hunting however, sanity needs to prevail and their limitations taken into account when used for backup.

Just to add, on Leopard I use Brenneke slugs as they penetrate the best, when hunting Bushpig over hounds I use a Spanish or Italian made slug which does not exit on them and makes it a lot safer for the hounds and other hunters in the party.