What is an adequate back-up rifle for a Professional Hunter..?

[thi9elsp]

I am not a PH. However, with the unwritten rule that the client should have the rifle he shoots best with him I am of the expectation it applies universally to PHs as well.

100% agreement on that. And, since I'm the hunter I would defer to the PHs judgement on which caliber in which situation. My ph had his 30 year old 458 lott. That rifle fit him like an extension of him. I was very comfortable hunting with him at my back.

 

[Wheels]

I shoot medium bores. 375 and 404.

As a client hunting elephant, buffalo or lion, I would prefer my PH use a 458wm or bigger. Not saying I wouldn't hunt DG with a PH that used something smaller, just a preference.

I know I can miss a charging brain. I know my PH can miss a charging brain. I know a miss of a few inches with a 500 is more damaging than a miss with a 375.

The chance of a charge is small. The chance of DG killing a member of the hunting party much smaller still. Yet every year it seems we loose a couple of the good guys.

Rifle cost and ammo cost/availability are big issues to PH's. Not all PH's can get or use what they would prefer. If I was a PH and cost/availability wasn't an issue I would probably carry something that started with a 5 for a DG hunt. I would just feel it was my responsibility to the client. 458L at a minimum.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Tend to agree with wheels on this one, 500gr lead pills are the way to go.

Charging brain shots..... This is likely and mostly happens on Elle....

Very few cats and or buff are stopped with charging brain shots, it is mostly a centre of mass kind of deal, this is where the serious knock rifles such as the 458 lott's and up, makes a world of difference.

458 Lott is a very popular choice amongst guides, (I reccomend the caliber allot to young and up and coming professional hunters) for 3 reasons.

*cost of fire arm (a good CZ a ph can pick up for $2000 in Africa)

*cost of amunition (in SA around $200 + a box)

* the young guys often find themselves cutting some teeth in SA and quite a number of them go into Moz, Tanzania and other countries, and the possibility does exist that you might not be able to find Lott amunition, in such a case one can always revert to traditional 458 win mag ammo,
Long and short of it you still have a functional fire arm, stranger things have happened.

My best always.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Or a 700gr woodleigh from the 550 magnum!

By the way spoke to Neal from CZ USA today and we are setting up import and paperwork for my 550 magnum.

Does that come with a bottle of Jameson for your shoulder?

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

No need! it does have a bit of a pump but nothing one can't handle!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

No need! it does have a bit of a pump but nothing one can't handle!

I was referencing the rifle not your wife's punch from your purchase of yet another rifle....

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I was referencing the rifle not your wife's punch from your purchase of yet another rifle....

O crap no! I'd rather take Recoil,,,,,you know she positioned 11th in the world championships with SHOTOKAN KARATE!!!

She'll kick my ass all the way!

We have a good agreement!

 

[gordon-kruger]

I have a dear friend that during 40 years of DG professional hunting never ever use anything than his 275 Rigby loaded with solids. He took hundred of buffalo and elephants, but he was a terrific shooter... I'm not that good.. ... so I prefer my 450 Rigby with 550 gr solids... it's a killer, special this days after years of poaching the fact is that the elephants is much more aggressive in Zambia than for 15 years ago, so I think that the 550 grains bullet is a extra insurance, but buffalo are strange and sometime they simply don't die even with the most heavy calibers, and sometime you have a drop dead buffalo from ONE 300 gr swift a-frame in a 375...

 

[Foxi]

Gents; it's a very interesting thread here and it's really thrilling what you Profs here writing.
Thank to Pondoro to his creative Ideas
Gordon,it must be difficult to get your .450 Ammo in Zambia,like Jaco wrote.
One of my (thousand)dreams is a Sako in .450.
But ups,almost 9.000.- USD

 

[siml]

@Wheels ," Yet every year it seems we loose a couple of the good guys". In most of the cases, the PH doesn't even get a shot off.

@gordon-kruger ,"I have a dear friend that during 40 years of DG professional hunting never ever use anything than his 275 Rigby loaded with solids. He took hundred of buffalo and elephants, but he was a terrific shooter..." Gordon, I totally agree with you, I would be much more comfortable with a person who can shoot straight, not how big his gun is. Elephant have got more aggressive but not tougher.

Yes, some animals do take a pounding no matter what you using, strange things happen out in the hunting field.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Any body here ever did TG18? Big bore, I say again as a guide you learn how to shoot it.

 

[gordon-kruger]

Hi Foxi, it's not rely difficult to find 450 Rigby ammo from Norma in Zambia, but the price is much higher than in RSA.
So, the best concept is to buy them in RSA, or shooting less ...

Some time ago they sharpen up the law regarding powder for hand loading and now you can risk to get a 10 year jail time if you smuggle even a 1 kg powder can into Zambia,
I think it's falling under some new terrorist law or what ever those blokes at Ministry of Justice or Defense have find out..... so also hand-loading then..

 

[larry4831]

Would a heavily constructed shotgun slug stop a charging elephant? Something like a 600 grain brenneke slug at about 1500 fps out of a muzzle?

 

[spike.t]

Would a heavily constructed shotgun slug stop a charging elephant? Something like a 600 grain brenneke slug at about 1500 fps out of a muzzle?

depends how big the ele is.......

 

[K-man]

I know I felt much better when a herd of cape buffalo caught a swirling wind and "charged" us when the P.H. next to me shouldered his .470NE heym. I also felt better when I shot my lion with both .416 on my left and right. Knowing they were comfortable and capable was more important.

 

[Panielsen]

I would have to vote for the .458 WM or .458 Lott. Both have been doing the job a long time, have 500 gr bullets moving just fast enough to quiet the angriest else or buff. Although as I write this, my mind wonders to the large .505 Gibbs, .500 Jeffery, and .460 Weatherby's in bolt actions, and of course the .450, .470, .500, etc. in the Nitro Express doubles as well.

@Jaco, what caliber did you order your CZ in? Did you say .550 Magnum?

 

[siml]

Note the re-enforcing iron used in home made gun. A few Ak bullets, we shot the elephant after seeing he was in a bad way, some bullets look like they had been in him years.

 

[Pondoro]

What if the UN did something useful for a change.....and supported anti-poaching financially...??

 

[siml]

They all think banning legal hunting is the answer! @&#@ rocket scientist!!!

 

[Wheels]

View attachment 45445 Note the re-enforcing iron used in home made gun. A few Ak bullets, we shot the elephant after seeing he was in a bad way, some bullets look like they had been in him years.

Makes you wonder how many AK's/other bullets/pot iron your guys didn't find.