What are my options for a current production crf 375 h&h rifle?

[NIGHTHAWK]

Has anyone tried the sako 90 Bavarian in 375? Eurooptic has them in stock.

“The Sako 85 had a controlled-round feed action with a mechanical ejector that has been replaced by a push-feed action with dual plunger ejectors on the Sako 90.”

I have a SAKO 85L in .375H&H and an AV DELUXE FINNBEAR in .375H&H and they both have a claw extractor and considered by SAKO (CRF); both have performed flawlessly. Having taken a dozen large game animals… Silky smooth action and very accurate.

 

[brym427]

New production? Here's the lineup for the 98's.

They run between 13,000 and 17,000 Euro for magnum options, so not cheap.

No, looking at a used one

 

[Ruraldoc]

Considering New Haven Classic Model 70s versus the FNs, I have a a 375 and a 416 from New Haven and an Alaskan from Portugal.

The Portugal gun was perfect from the factory and is moa accurate and feeds and functions perfectly.

Both New Haven guns had issuses with feedind that had to be sorted out. The 416 had rounds poping out of the magazine right and left and had to be sorted out by Dennis Olsen.

The 375 would jam if you worked the action slowly,it too had to have work to function properly.

I have a dozen controlled feed model 70s from pretty much every era, the current Portugal guns are very good guns in my experience and I would not hesitate to buy another,in fact I'm considering getting one in 458 right now.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

No, looking at a used one

Consider standard Mauser built to 375. More affordable (much more!) than magnum length Mauser actions and by all accounts work just as well (if built properly). Standard action will have shorter stroke and lighter weight. Also much easier to trick it out if so desired. For example, aftermarket bottom metal and good wood abounds for standard action Mauser. You would of course be limited to three shells in the box and one in the chamber but that should be plenty to do the job even for dangerous game (ask any of the gents on here who tote double rifles). If you can, load up three dummy rounds and take them with you when looking at used rifles. Load up and cycle a full magazine. A well built standard Mauser SHOULD also allow snap over on a shell dropped in the chamber. Not something I would recommend on a regular basis but should be an available option for dangerous game rifle.

 

[rookhawk]

I do not agree with Ontario Hunter’s logic (ever), but you appear equally blinded as he is at times. His obsession with railing against the rich and anything he perceives as a show of wealth blinds his judgement. I’ve read a lot of your posts over the years unless it’s a semi-custom US rifle or historic European name you seem unable to recognize it as quality. The same for optics. I’d challenge you to tell me where a factory Model 70 from cabelas has failed the hunter. Ontario Hunter’s rifle is questionable durability and has almost no resale value as a homemade rifle. He’s already stated he’s had 2 rifle failures on I think 4 trips to South Africa and his Bushnell scope on a 404 is waiting to fail from recoil at any time. However, the rifles and optics you recommend have zero added value to me. It appears more an obsession with high end names than functionality. They are no more functional than a current production model 70 of the Cabela’s shelf with a Leupold scope. There is a choice to make if you’d like to put money into fine firearms or functional rifles and hunting. I hunt with functional rifles and scopes and haven’t been let down yet. My definition of quality for a hunting rifle and optics is largely durability and reliability both the rifle itself and my ability to shoot it. Anything beyond that is just a luxury one can decide if it’s valuable to them or not.

I don't recall weighing in to reject a Model 70, CZ, Blaser, Ruger RSM or any of the other guns cited on this post. You're literally putting words in my mouth and then telling me I'm wrong.

I've owned many of the rifles discussed and what I found is that by the time I got them to a level of smooth sophistication (e.g. getting a CZ to be similar in function to an AHR derivative) my costs in time and money could have been better placed just getting a better gun for less dollars. That doesn't mean they suck, it just means I think there is a shorter distance between two places.

IF the OP said "I have $1400 to spend and not a penny more, help!" I would have advised him to spend a year looking for a bedraggled ZKK602 or CZ550. Then stop by the workshop with a six pack of beer and I'd help him get it in tip-top shape for a safari. But that wasn't his parameters, so I tried to give an opinion. My opinion didn't negate your opinion, or even counter your opinion, nor did I say your opinion was a bad opinion.

The only opinion I called into question was the fruits of Ontario Hunter's labors and his recommendation that others repeat his labors looking for a similar outcome. I don't like the labors, I don't like the outcomes, I don't like the costs to get to those outcomes. Even that isn't a personal attack, but it is a scathing critique of the finished product compared to virtually any other option.

 

[rookhawk]

Consider standard Mauser built to 375. More affordable (much more!) than magnum length Mauser actions and by all accounts work just as well (if built properly). Standard action will have shorter stroke and lighter weight. Also much easier to trick it out if so desired. For example, aftermarket bottom metal and good wood abounds for standard action Mauser. You would of course be limited to three shells in the box and one in the chamber but that should be plenty to do the job even for dangerous game (ask any of the gents on here who tote double rifles). If you can, load up three dummy rounds and take them with you when looking at used rifles. Load up and cycle a full magazine. A well built standard Mauser SHOULD also allow snap over on a shell dropped in the chamber. Not something I would recommend on a regular basis but should be an available option for dangerous game rifle.

What you say above is true, but a lot of the 98 mausers were built on custom stocks with custom followers. It is quite common to find 4+1 capacities. I've even seen 5+1 and maybe a 6+1 achieved by using a perch-belly, very expensive extended bottom metal that is typically used on a 500J to result in extraordinary capacity for 375HH/458WM type guns.

 

[poco]

I know I know! You guys don’t like push feed but there’s imo nothing wrong with them
The sig saur 202 , beraga, Remington 700, m70 are all great rifles and very accurate and affordable, and need basically nothing straight from the box except some good tally QD bases and rings
I do love a good ol M70 pre 64 or new CRF , but I am mr blue collar and a 700 action with good glass doesn’t give me a 2nd thought when after DG
Ontario hunters 404J doesn’t bother me either except for that terrible scope

Elitism is one of my personal pet peeves

 

[skydiver386]

Buy quality, you won't regret it.

 

[Ruraldoc]

The options for reasonably priced controlled round feed dangerous game rifles are really limited.

Model 70s both new and used. But some era M70s are push feed.Some of the New Haven classics need a bit of tuning. So far my Pre 64s and Portugal guns have been perfect.

Ruger 77s both new and used. Again many older 77s are push feed. If the Ruger is chambered for a 375 or 416, It is controlled round feed. All 458 Lotts are as well, but not the 458 Win Mags.

Used Interarms Mausers and modern clones. Many need work to be ready.

Used CZ 550s and Brno 602s. Many need a little work to be perfect.

Browning and similar FN Safari rifles. Watch out for salt wood brownings and some are also push feed.

So in this mine field, the new Model 70s are hard to beat. Any of the others work if you get a good one or have it tuned by a knowledgeable smith.

 

[Challer]

Actually was a sales rep for them for about 4 years, so yes I have owned them, trained people on them and sold them to dealers. It’s a good rifle, nothing wrong with them but they truly are a Frankenstein gun, come off automated machines in parts then assembled. Comparing an r8 to a custom Mauser that some guy spent a lifetime developing the skill to build properly is not a comparison, it’s a contrast.

Sure. You're saying an R8 is not built properly? Or modern precision machining isn't good? Or you don't like the way exhibition grade wood looks on R8? Parts interchangeability is bad?

Frankenstein suggests parts pulled from a various disparate parts not designed for each other. It's a really poor analogy.

 

[Neophyte]

I think what he’s saying is that a handfitted controlled round feed says Africa and Safari much more so than Teutonic MIM machinery parts assembly.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

What you say above is true, but a lot of the 98 mausers were built on custom stocks with custom followers. It is quite common to find 4+1 capacities. I've even seen 5+1 and maybe a 6+1 achieved by using a perch-belly, very expensive extended bottom metal that is typically used on a 500J to result in extraordinary capacity for 375HH/458WM type guns.

Yes, but then the cost does skyrocket because the modification requires a custom stock. Stick with 3+1 and a conventional standard 98 stock will do. Lots of them available. Not so much for 4+1.

Even if I spent $5K building my rifle and had most of the work done that I did myself, I'd still be $10K ahead of a "bespoke" British rifle that's essentially the same action, shoots just as well, and cycles as reliably. $5K would be a lot more than some of the factory guns put forth on this thread and perhaps they cycle, shoot, etc just as well. Maybe better. But in the end that gun would just be something from the assembly line. Which is fine. Or the OP can have a gun built that truly identifies with him. Right now I'm making a cherry wood box for my rifle with a brass name plate recording when I built the gun. It will go to my grandson someday. Hopegully, it will mean something. If not, he can sell it and undoubtedly for more than I've got in it. Yes, ordering a bespoke British rifle, waiting years for it, and spending $10K more would achieve the same objective. But $10K is $10K. I can think of a lot better ways to spend the money ... like another buffalo (which I also don't need ).

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I know I know! You guys don’t like push feed but there’s imo nothing wrong with them
The sig saur 202 , beraga, Remington 700, m70 are all great rifles and very accurate and affordable, and need basically nothing straight from the box except some good tally QD bases and rings
I do love a good ol M70 pre 64 or new CRF , but I am mr blue collar and a 700 action with good glass doesn’t give me a 2nd thought when after DG
Ontario hunters 404J doesn’t bother me either except for that terrible scope

Elitism is one of my personal pet peeves

Thanks. Got a good deal on the scope. And it's working out well. Not too ugly for a "tactical" job. Only two turrets (both covered) and no Christmas tree lighted reticle. I had mixed feelings about thicker 30mm tube but was able to get it low enough ... just barely! It has good eye relief, instant acquisition, quite clear, and wider field of view than the old 1" Weaver K3 that was on the gun. Bushnell warranty support is supposed to be good. For the money I figured I had nothing to lose. Could resell it here for more than I paid. But I am happy with it so far.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

I’ve killed a lot of animals dead and without issue with push feed, off the shelf, rifles. To be honest, I didn’t know to ask or think about the difference until I got on AH. I don’t know it was a thing for a long time. Now, I realize I have several rifles that are CRF or a variation of. The OP stated his desire for CRF, so the assumption is he knows the difference and knows what he wants.

I have several REM 700’s and they work great, one does have an M-16 style claw extractor and it works great too.

I think my Winchester M70 in 300 WBY is push feed and it killed a lot of of sheep, deer, antelope, and elk without issue…

Hell, I used right handed rifles for years, even though I shoot LH. Now that I can afford LH rifles I want and my needs have changed, I’ll spend more money for value. And, I don’t feel particularly elitist about it… I’m not interested in wasting time criticizing others about their choices of rifles and/or gear. If it works for them and they can prove that it is effective by ethically hunting and killing game, then they should post first hand experiences so the members of this community can glean as much good as possible from it…

To each their own.

 

[Killo]

Montana Rifle Company will be releasing their .375 H&H eventually. They are actually shooting the prototype now. You could wait for one of the new DG models. They wont be cheap. But they will be accurate and beautiful

Do you know approximately when they are coming out?
I am dying for a lefty…

 

[rookhawk]

Yes, but then the cost does skyrocket because the modification requires a custom stock. Stick with 3+1 and a conventional standard 98 stock will do. Lots of them available. Not so much for 4+1.

Even if I spent $5K building my rifle and had most of the work done that I did myself, I'd still be $10K ahead of a "bespoke" British rifle that's essentially the same action, shoots just as well, and cycles as reliably. $5K would be a lot more than some of the factory guns put forth on this thread and perhaps they cycle, shoot, etc just as well. Maybe better. But in the end that gun would just be something from the assembly line. Which is fine. Or the OP can have a gun built that truly identifies with him. Right now I'm making a cherry wood box for my rifle with a brass name plate recording when I built the gun. It will go to my grandson someday. Hopegully, it will mean something. If not, he can sell it and undoubtedly for more than I've got in it. Yes, ordering a bespoke British rifle, waiting years for it, and spending $10K more would achieve the same objective. But $10K is $10K. I can think of a lot better ways to spend the money ... like another buffalo (which I also don't need ).

I'm glad you're building something for your heirs to enjoy in the future. We can always disagree about guns without being disagreeable about the character of our fellow hunters. I wish you much success and enjoyment with anything you do in the outdoors. Straight shooting.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Do you know approximately when they are coming out?
I am dying for a lefty…

I do not, but am I hope it’s next year sometime

 

[Heeler75]

In your budget, I’d recommend a Mauser of some sort. Modifications you may want are easy to do on a 98 mauser, parts are plentiful, every gunsmith knows how to work on them. The “others” out there are proprietary renditions of a Mauser and that means proprietary repair parts.

The one part of the plot that modern “American” rifles have missed, is the need for a rapid shot from a standing position. Almost all American CRF rifles have high-combed Monte Carlo stocks. These stocks are designed to shoot higher magnification optics from a bench position or shooting prone. Safari hunts aren’t conducted from shooting benches or laying prone.

So for those reasons, leaning more towards British Mausers or bespoke American mausers with their low profile combs is preferred for safaris. A straight tubed scope in extra low rings gets your optical sight picture to be in line with your iron sight picture, exactly what you want for a prompt and effective shot off shooting sticks or free hand.

My conclusion: In your budget range, I’d be looking for a British style low comb stock built on a 98 Mauser action. Options are many, with prices from $5000 to $500,000 to suit the need.

One more thing to ponder is taking the most extreme example. If you had infinite money and you wanted the finest 375HH safari rifle money could possibly buy, where would it be made, to what aesthetic style, and on what action? Look no further than the finest auction houses in the world for your answer. 99.99% of them would be a 98 mauser built in either Britain or Germany and it would be stocked in British low-comb style. (Honorable mention at the lower-end $50k price point would be American Griffin & Howe, Ramirez, or Smithson in the English style)

So if that’s the half million dollar gun answer for those with infinite resources, its probably the right answer to look for that genre of rifle in a more basic grade even if your budget is a fraction of that amount.

I've never seen so much bullsh*t as this right here. But keep on doing you.

 

[rookhawk]

I've never seen so much bullsh*t as this right here. But keep on doing you.

 

[VertigoBE]

I've never seen so much bullsh*t as this right here. But keep on doing you.

What exactly is it you wished to contribute towards the conversation?