What are my options for a current production crf 375 h&h rifle?

[BeeMaa]

I've never seen so much bullsh*t as this right here. But keep on doing you.

Funny. For someone with "Heeler" in their screen name, I would have thought you would have taken a more subtle and controlled approach.

Please feel free to contribute to the conversation in a positive way and leave the insults and passive aggressive comments for a DM.

 

[Deepfork]

Funny. For someone with "Heeler" in their screen name, I would have thought you would have taken a more subtle and controlled approach.

Please feel free to contribute to the conversation in a positive way and leave the insults and passive aggressive comments for a DM.

Ya best to be civil, but I thought what he said.

 

[rookhawk]

Funny. For someone with "Heeler" in their screen name, I would have thought you would have taken a more subtle and controlled approach.

Please feel free to contribute to the conversation in a positive way and leave the insults and passive aggressive comments for a DM.

No offense taken from me at all. Every man is entitled to his opinion. There are a lot of credible hunters that have bought into the high comb, monte carlo, pic rail, high rings, big objective craze. My mission is to explain that isn't the way, but every one of 1000 guns at Cabelas disagrees with me.

I'll take anyone to the promised land that will let me lead them there. Anyone not coming, I don't think of you as less of hunters, only that you bought into mass-marketing over equal-cost artisanship.

No hate. Only constructive disagreement.

 

[Deepfork]

Funny. For someone with "Heeler" in their screen name, I would have thought you would have taken a more subtle and controlled approach.

Please feel free to contribute to the conversation in a positive way and leave the insults and passive aggressive comments for a DM.

Why do you call out "Heeler" but not "rookhawk" for the quote below. Very personal attack though he claims its not.

You like to spend a fair amount of money on unexceptional guns, poorly laid out, poor geometry, with poor quality components. Go for it. I don't fault any man for buying what he can afford, but I do find it odd that you like to hold your rifles, cases, swivels, and pretty much everything up to be THE standard of quality when in actuality it is below the standard I would recommend to anyone of any means. Everyone I know on this forum thinks your photos absolutely undermine your points and serve as a cautionary tale to others.

I don't want to make this personal, I just think your discernment is poor when it comes to guns and equipment and that you paid way too much for way too little. I don't think you have the self awareness to pick up on that, but it certainly embarrasses yourself when you do show-and-tell proclaiming that what you have is an example of the right way to do something when its all half-ass hack jobs.

 

[375Fox]

I don't recall weighing in to reject a Model 70, CZ, Blaser, Ruger RSM or any of the other guns cited on this post. You're literally putting words in my mouth and then telling me I'm wrong.

I've owned many of the rifles discussed and what I found is that by the time I got them to a level of smooth sophistication (e.g. getting a CZ to be similar in function to an AHR derivative) my costs in time and money could have been better placed just getting a better gun for less dollars. That doesn't mean they suck, it just means I think there is a shorter distance between two places.

IF the OP said "I have $1400 to spend and not a penny more, help!" I would have advised him to spend a year looking for a bedraggled ZKK602 or CZ550. Then stop by the workshop with a six pack of beer and I'd help him get it in tip-top shape for a safari. But that wasn't his parameters, so I tried to give an opinion. My opinion didn't negate your opinion, or even counter your opinion, nor did I say your opinion was a bad opinion.

The only opinion I called into question was the fruits of Ontario Hunter's labors and his recommendation that others repeat his labors looking for a similar outcome. I don't like the labors, I don't like the outcomes, I don't like the costs to get to those outcomes. Even that isn't a personal attack, but it is a scathing critique of the finished product compared to virtually any other option.

Nothing on AH is done in a vacuum. Every established member here has a history of posts. I don’t doubt you are extremely knowledgeable on firearms, but I do think you confuse quality with luxury. I’ve been told you are great in person, but I find many of your posts on firearms and optics off putting.

 

[rookhawk]

Nothing on AH is done in a vacuum. Every established member here has a history of posts. I don’t doubt you are extremely knowledgeable on firearms, but I do think you confuse quality with luxury. I’ve been told you are great in person, but I find many of your posts on firearms and optics off putting.

That’s fair. I’m off putting to some in real life too. I grew up poor and I resent poor thinking. The best mental exercise I can do is to ask what is infinitely possible, then dial back with realistic compromises. Others start with mediocrity and hover there.

If you don’t aim for the moon, you have zero chance of getting there. Start with what is exceptional in life, then compromise to get 80% of the way there for 1% of the price.

As pertains to quality, I’m just competent enough to understand every step in gunsmithing, and just incompetent enough to know I’m incapable of quality work to a high standard in many steps. When I see quality for the sake of luxury, like drop points on a stock, I know that is a $1000 of labor, I cannot do it, and it’s free on some guns. That’s where I appreciate the luxury because I know it’s an aesthetic quality I cannot reproduce with my modest skills. Others might find an artisans skill to be worthless, ignoring an appreciation for a skill beyond myself and 99.9% of the readers unless they got a bill to have such work done personally.

 

[Deepfork]

That’s fair. I’m off putting to some in real life too. I grew up poor and I resent poor thinking. The best mental exercise I can do is to ask what is infinitely possible, then dial back with realistic compromises. Others start with mediocrity and hover there.

If you don’t aim for the moon, you have zero chance of getting there. Start with what is exceptional in life, then compromise to get 80% of the way there for 1% of the price.

Go back and read some of your post in this thread. Treat those you are trying to influence poorly and you have zero chance of having any influence.

 

[Tra3]

Another point to consider is expected frequency of use of the rifle. For a person who is certain to do one Africa trip, I can understand the goal of trying to buy a functional, yet less costly rifle. That is a smart and reasonable goal.

But, many here discover that the “one” trip turns into multiple trips. And then a different, upgraded firearm gets added for the subsequent trips. I’d be willing to bet that the the large majority of people who have been on more that one trip also bought more than one firearm for Africa. A good portion of the advice is based on an expectation that the firearm will be used for more than one hunt. The hope is to start with a rifle good enough on the first trip that will also be good enough for subsequent adventures. The advice in prior posts tends to suggest using money wisely so one doesn’t get a $1500-$3000 first rifle and then a $5000 second rifle. The second rifle will position the first rifle to the back of the safe to collect dust.

 

[375Fox]

That’s fair. I’m off putting to some in real life too. I grew up poor and I resent poor thinking. The best mental exercise I can do is to ask what is infinitely possible, then dial back with realistic compromises. Others start with mediocrity and hover there.

If you don’t aim for the moon, you have zero chance of getting there. Start with what is exceptional in life, then compromise to get 80% of the way there for 1% of the price.

As pertains to quality, I’m just competent enough to understand every step in gunsmithing, and just incompetent enough to know I’m incapable of quality work to a high standard in many steps. When I see quality for the sake of luxury, like drop points on a stock, I know that is a $1000 of labor, I cannot do it, and it’s free on some guns. That’s where I appreciate the luxury because I know it’s an aesthetic quality I cannot reproduce with my modest skills. Others might find an artisans skill to be worthless, ignoring an appreciation for a skill beyond myself and 99.9% of the readers unless they got a bill to have such work done personally.

Our philosophies are likely not that much different but I apply that thinking to the hunts I choose. The firearms I use to get there are simply a tool to me. I only want reliability and durability anything more than that adds no value to me. I’m very particular on the hunts I choose and the experience I want. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a high end rifle on a low end hunt chosen for cost. If it’s a question of putting money towards a rifle or a hunt, I will always put money towards the next hunt.

 

[rookhawk]

Our philosophies are likely not that much different but I apply that thinking to the hunts I choose. The firearms I use to get there are simply a tool to me. I only want reliability and durability anything more than that adds no value to me. I’m very particular on the hunts I choose and the experience I want. Nothing bothers me more than seeing a high end rifle on a low end hunt chosen for cost. If it’s a question of putting money towards a rifle or a hunt, I will always put money towards the next hunt.

I like your thinking. I’m just greedy enough for getting every drop out of life “I want it all”. I want the best gear, hunt, house, rifles, and meals I can afford. And I want it all at a value proposition that does right by the seller, the staff, and leaves me financially strong enough to give generously whenever possible.

Hence, retailers, middle men, arbitrage, marketeers, booking agents, brokers, and other intermediaries don’t get much quarter in my world.

 

[375Fox]

Another point to consider is expected frequency of use of the rifle. For a person who is certain to do one Africa trip, I can understand the goal of trying to buy a functional, yet less costly rifle. That is a smart and reasonable goal.

But, many here discover that the “one” trip turns into multiple trips. And then a different, upgraded firearm gets added for the subsequent trips. I’d be willing to bet that the the large majority of people who have been on more that one trip also bought more than one firearm for Africa. A good portion of the advice is based on an expectation that the firearm will be used for more than one hunt. The hope is to start with a rifle good enough on the first trip that will also be good enough for subsequent adventures. The advice in prior posts tends to suggest using money wisely so one doesn’t get a $1500-$3000 first rifle and then a $5000 second rifle. The second rifle will position the first rifle to the back of the safe to collect dust.

It depends. My go to rifles have not changed even as I bought more. Nearly all my hunting is done with a Sako 85 in 300 Win or 375 H&H with Leupold scopes. If you bought a mossberg patriot I think I’d want an upgrade, but as far as function I don’t see what high end rifles offer over most middle end rifles. If it’s a good fit and cycles reliably I see no reason to change.

 

[Deepfork]

Another point to consider is expected frequency of use of the rifle. For a person who is certain to do one Africa trip, I can understand the goal of trying to buy a functional, yet less costly rifle. That is a smart and reasonable goal.

But, many here discover that the “one” trip turns into multiple trips. And then a different, upgraded firearm gets added for the subsequent trips. I’d be willing to bet that the the large majority of people who have been on more that one trip also bought more than one firearm for Africa. A good portion of the advice is based on an expectation that the firearm will be used for more than one hunt. The hope is to start with a rifle good enough on the first trip that will also be good enough for subsequent adventures. The advice in prior posts tends to suggest using money wisely so one doesn’t get a $1500-$3000 first rifle and then a $5000 second rifle. The second rifle will position the first rifle to the back of the safe to collect dust.

Yes...I agree. I am an experienced hunter, mostly in the US and a good shot and very experienced with firearms. I grew up with them, Winchester rifles and Remington Shotguns!

I spent 24 years in the Army where I was a Recon Ranger Delta Force Seal Team Six Sniper same as everyone else! (I was a MP for 12 years, spent the rest in a couple of admin MOSs.)

My first hunting trip to Africa changed my trajectory a bit. Now days I am more interested in shooting off of sticks rather than a rest or rifle mounted bi-pod. I have two more hunting trips to Africa booked.

I grew up with Winchester model 70 rifles, I have a bunch of them. Two of them I have owned for more than 30 years have been rebuilt and re-barreled to what I consider more plains game appropriate calibers, .270 and 30-06 are now .35 Whelen and 338-06AI rifles.

I have zero interest in hi end Euro rifles, no one can convince there is any concrete value to be had as far as function, accuracy, handling reliability etc after a certain point. I can put a bunch of lead fast into a very small area with my model 70's. The most I have ever spent customizing a rifle is around 6K, and I had my perfect rifle. So talk of a custom Mauser for 10K or 20K or 50K and more.......no one is buying that type of firearm because they need it or because it makes them a better hunter, they are buying it because they can, and that's okay, just is what it is though.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

It depends. My go to rifles have not changed even as I bought more. Nearly all my hunting is done with a Sako 85 in 300 Win or 375 H&H with Leupold scopes. If you bought a mossberg patriot I think I’d want an upgrade, but as far as function I don’t see what high end rifles offer over most middle end rifles. If it’s a good fit and cycles reliably I see no reason to change.

Hey, I thought SAKO’s were high end?!
Poor man’s CRF?

In my estimation, life is about balance and living as richly as your means allow, just not above them. -Whatever that means to you.

 

[CoElkHunter]

It depends. My go to rifles have not changed even as I bought more. Nearly all my hunting is done with a Sako 85 in 300 Win or 375 H&H with Leupold scopes. If you bought a mossberg patriot I think I’d want an upgrade, but as far as function I don’t see what high end rifles offer over most middle end rifles. If it’s a good fit and cycles reliably I see no reason to change.

Exactly! Some of the more expensive rifles are bought for an investment and I understand that. SOME of those are actually shot and/or hunted with, but not many. Most are buried in the gun safe and taken out for photo ops here on AH and elsewhere. For the other 99%ers here like me, we HUNT with rifles we can afford and can take game with. On my one African PG hunt, I shot my twelve animals with my late son's Remington 700 .300WM. That wasn't the original plan, but plans change sometimes. The most expensive rifle I own is a CZ550 AHR#2 in .416 Rigby. I have several other CZ550s and three Whitworths in several chamberings. IF I'm ever fortunate to afford a Cape Buffalo hunt in Africa, I'll take the Rigby and probably a lowly CZ in .375 or SHAME, my Ruger .375 Guide Gun. They ALL shoot well and I'm confident with them. To each their own but that's the way I ROLL (HUNT)!

 

[intj]

Why would anyone care, much less be offended by, what someone else chooses for a rifle?

I say we make whatever choice we make for whatever reasons we make and be happy.

I can promise that almost no one else here would make the same decisions for the same reasons that I do. I consider my uniqueness a feature, not a bug.......

 

[rookhawk]

Why would anyone care, much less be offended by, what someone else chooses for a rifle?

I say we make whatever choice we make for whatever reasons we make and be happy.

I can promise that almost no one else here would make the same decisions for the same reasons that I do. I consider my uniqueness a feature, not a bug.......

With the user name @intj you’d probably make the same decisions as my son! Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Judging. “The Architect”.

We don’t talk much about feelings and flower arranging over here, but CRF guns and the Punic wars are popular dinnertime conversations. Probably the same for you.

 

[intj]

With the user name @intj you’d probably make the same decisions as my son! Introverted, Intuitive, Thinking, Judging. “The Architect”.

We don’t talk much about feelings and flower arranging over here, but CRF guns and the Punic wars are popular dinnertime conversations. Probably the same for you.

It's even worse when you look and an intj's function stack: internal intuition, external thinking, internal feeling, extroverted sensing......but I think you know the type.

While I love a good discussion--prefer CRF over pushfeed, bolts over DRs (I have both), appreciate artisans but value function much much more, and greatly prefer my own chambers and bedding jobs to anyone else's ; I don't think anyone has to get emotional over any of that. Then again, I am an INTJ and I don't play well in the realm of emotion......

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Located in pa

You might want to give Herold’s in Waynesboro a call.

Keep an eye on the Hamburg Cabela’s. They see a fair number of Model 70’s every year and have one of the better Gun Library’s on the East coast.

 

[Royal7]

I’ve been looking at the same thing for a first safari for next summer. The Winchester 70s seem to be on a quite the backlog. Been on the list at Reeds for over a year. Even called Winchester and current production numbers are low. I’ve seen a couple pop up on gunbroker for reasonable prices. Above MSRP but reasonable usually less than 2500. Maybe someone else knows a shop that might get them in but i haven’t had the luck.

Good luck!

 

[brym427]

I’ve been looking at the same thing for a first safari for next summer. The Winchester 70s seem to be on a quite the backlog. Been on the list at Reeds for over a year. Even called Winchester and current production numbers are low. I’ve seen a couple pop up on gunbroker for reasonable prices. Above MSRP but reasonable usually less than 2500. Maybe someone else knows a shop that might get them in but i haven’t had the luck.

Good luck!

I ended up buying a rifle from the classifieds on this forum. Lots of options there vs looking at gunbroker or stores for new production