What’s the thoughts on the .223 on all plains game with a match bullet trend?

[Neophyte]

You should never let your mind be so open that your brain falls out...

I heard it put, “Never open your mouth and let your brains dribble out.”

Very similar but I heard it before home computers.

 

[Ridge Runner]

@Inline6

Who said anything about using a 22cal for a stopping
rifle? The same could be said with 30-06, would you feel comfortable with that in your hands in the same situation? Someone I'm sure will say yes. Stopping rifle are a completely different subject. I'll take it a step further, some PHs use a 375h&h for a stopping rifle, manly due to funds. Most would want the first number to start with a 4 at a minimum if I had to guess.

I would feel a whole lot more comfortable with a 30-06 with a 200gr or 220gr bullet than any 22 cal with a 77gr or 80gr bullet of any variety. Simply because the 30-06 will hit a whole lot harder and delivery the energy needed to penetrait through heavy bone and dense muscle.

Have to go back a ways on the forum's post where one renoun PH culled a lot of elephants with a 30-06.

With good ballistic reasoning African countries have legal minimum caliber 9.3 or .375 for dangerous game. It's because these are the minimum calibers that deliver the proper kenetic energy and penetration needed to humanely kill dangerous game.

PHs use a 375h&h for a stopping rifle, manly due to funds

A poll would have to be taken of the PH members on this forum, but I would expect if not all, the majority of them back thier DG client with a rifle that's starts with a .4 caliber.
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Let's take Africa DG and large PG, using the equivalent North American big game: Elk, Moose, and Bears.

No longer hunting tens or hundreds of thousands of acres of private land nor a variety of available species.

A hunter has paid their dues buying quota points, waiting years to be drawn for that one particular quota hunt area on public land; or they have paid thousands of dollars for an outfitter and a tag.

You are advocating that the hunter use a 22 caliber, that when the lighter 22 bullet hits/nicks bone or looses most of its energy penetraiting dense muscle, with a greater chance of the animal making it onto another property or being recovered by another hunter, over a more efficient larger caliber.

I'll advocate that the hunter use a proper bigger caliber, using a heavier bullet, delivering more foot pounds of energy to penetrait bone and dense muscle, with less chance of the animal making it onto another property or loosing their animal to another hunter.

 

[Inline6]

Do you remember Major Khan? He used to write a lot on AH about hunting in India when it was still legal. He wrote often about a friend of his that was a shikari and guided a hunter to a tiger and he shot it with a .22-250. Head shot if I remember right. The tiger killed the hunter. the Indian government hanged the guide for allowing such a stupid stunt.

I'm working off memory, so a detail could be off, but the bottom line is that hunter shot a tiger with a .22-250 (or maybe .220 Swift?) Tiger killed hunter. Guide was executed for it. Maybe Hunter-Habib knows more?

Trying new things is fine but being experimental should not overrule common sense.

I do not know anything about that story. I also did not see anyone suggesting 22cal to be used on DG. I could have certainly missed it.

 

[Inline6]

@Inline6


I would feel a whole lot more comfortable with a 30-06 with a 200gr or 220gr bullet than any 22 cal with a 77gr or 80gr bullet of any variety. Simply because the 30-06 will hit a whole lot harder and delivery the energy needed to penetrait through heavy bone and dense muscle.

Have to go back a ways on the forum's post where one renoun PH culled a lot of elephants with a 30-06.

With good ballistic reasoning African countries have legal minimum caliber 9.3 or .375 for dangerous game. It's because these are the minimum calibers that deliver the proper kenetic energy and penetration needed to humanely kill dangerous game.



A poll would have to be taken of the PH members on this forum, but I would expect if not all, the majority of them back thier DG client with a rifle that's starts with a .4 caliber.
______________________________________________

Let's take Africa DG and large PG, using the equivalent North American big game: Elk, Moose, and Bears.

No longer hunting tens or hundreds of thousands of acres of private land nor a variety of available species.

A hunter has paid their dues buying quota points, waiting years to be drawn for that one particular quota hunt area on public land; or they have paid thousands of dollars for an outfitter and a tag.

You are advocating that the hunter use a 22 caliber, that when the lighter 22 bullet hits/nicks bone or looses most of its energy penetraiting dense muscle, with a greater chance of the animal making it onto another property or being recovered by another hunter, over a more efficient larger caliber.

I'll advocate that the hunter use a proper bigger caliber, using a heavier bullet, delivering more foot pounds of energy to penetrait bone and dense muscle, with less chance of the animal making it onto another property or loosing their animal to another hunter.

Yes yes and over 1k ele fell to the 7X57.

For whatever reason people are making a jump to DG for a 22cal. When the OP was asking about PG.

Obviously my communication skills are lacking. I'm pretty sure I never said I was advocating the use of a 22cal... I'm pretty sure I told a story of WT deer the took 2 - 223 rds to the neck and ended up walking away. After that we no longer used a 223 to hunt with.

It's my fault, I know. Same thing with a 6.5CM it is a lost cause.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Yes yes and over 1k ele fell to the 7X57.

For whatever reason people are making a jump to DG for a 22cal. When the OP was asking about PG.

Obviously my communication skills are lacking. I'm pretty sure I never said I was advocating the use of a 22cal... I'm pretty sure I told a story of WT deer the took 2 - 223 rds to the neck and ended up walking away. After that we no longer used a 223 to hunt with.

It's my fault, I know. Same thing with a 6.5CM it is a lost cause.

You are missing the point. A .223 is less powerful than a .22-250, and an eland is much bigger than a tiger. The desired effect of shooting an animal is to see him fall and die in the shortest time with the least amount of suffering. The point of the tiger story was just to show the folly of using an under powered cartridge to shoot big animals.

Yes, Bell killed a thousand elephants with heavy solid bullets from a 7x57. He knew how to reach the brain from nearly any angle. Many other hunters tried doing that and died for trying it.

 

[gbflyer]

Do you remember Major Khan? He used to write a lot on AH about hunting in India when it was still legal. He wrote often about a friend of his that was a shikari and guided a hunter to a tiger and he shot it with a .22-250. Head shot if I remember right. The tiger killed the hunter. the Indian government hanged the guide for allowing such a stupid stunt.

I'm working off memory, so a detail could be off, but the bottom line is that hunter shot a tiger with a .22-250 (or maybe .220 Swift?) Tiger killed hunter. Guide was executed for it. Maybe Hunter-Habib knows more?

Trying new things is fine but being experimental should not overrule common sense.

When hunting was still legal in India, a 22-250 would be pushing a 55gr varmint bullet at 3800 or so. Definitely going to over expand. That is not a fair comparison to the bullets available today. Put a 70-88gr bullet in a fast twist 22-250 today and you have something that is worthy of a discussion relevant to this subject.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

When hunting was still legal in India, a 22-250 would be pushing a 55gr varmint bullet at 3800 or so. Definitely going to over expand. That is not a fair comparison to the bullets available today. Put a 70-88gr bullet in a fast twist 22-250 today and you have something that is worthy of a discussion relevant to this subject.

I have a .22-250. It works well on coyotes. I am still not shooting a tiger or else bigger than a deer with it. Come to think of it, I'd have to be hard up to use it on a deer.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I hope this will paste.

And I hope this is the correct video

It's from: Bows, guns, rods and reels.

The fellow, a South African(?), states the 22 Hornet is not a recommended caliber for impala yet he shoots an impala between the eyes, DRT.

What he doesn't say is the yardage he is shooting them at. And these are precision shots.

He also more importantly states the 22 Hornet IS NOT a recommended caliber!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I hope this will paste.

And I hope this is the correct video

It's from: Bows, guns, rods and reels.

The fellow, a South African(?), states the 22 Hornet is not a recommended caliber for impala yet he shoots an impala between the eyes, DRT.

What he doesn't say is the yardage he is shooting them at. And these are precision shots.

He also more importantly states the 22 Hornet IS NOT a recommended caliber!

That is a pointless video. Didn't have to watch it to figure that out.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I hope this will paste.

And I hope this is the correct video

It's from: Bows, guns, rods and reels.

The fellow, a South African(?), states the 22 Hornet is not a recommended caliber for impala yet he shoots an impala between the eyes, DRT.

What he doesn't say is the yardage he is shooting them at. And these are precision shots.

He also more importantly states the 22 Hornet IS NOT a recommended caliber!

Okay. During the Great Depression my grandfather would occasionally use a .22 LR to kill a blacktail deer (about the same size as an impala) because he couldn't afford .30-3O ammo. He did not like having to do it as the .30-30 was much more effective (and kinder) but with precise shot placement it can be done. That does not mean it is a good idea under normal hunting situations. If the shot is slightly off an injured animal will probably escape to suffer.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I personally know a couple PH's that shoot a .223, mainly for culling. One mentioned he liked these heavy grain match bullets because of how accurate they are. He's normally trying to shoot the animal right behind the ear or at the base of the neck for a quick clean kill without any meat damage.

I don't think there are many PH's who would argue for use of a .223 on body shot for the medium and larger big game animals with these bullets. Maybe a PH hunting a lot of Impala and Springbok.