Waterbuck opinion

[375Fox]

Sorry to see you had a bad experience. I’m not sure if it’s a mature waterbuck or not, but definitely not a trophy caliber waterbuck regardless. It’s unfortunately too easy to become a PH and outfitter in South Africa. There are a few really bad ones, a lot of amateurs, and a few professionals. I’d think this a case of a bad amateur incentivized to sell animals from his property rather than the best animals available to the client. Hopefully you’ll write a detailed and professional report.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I respectfully disagree with your assessment Joe. This is a classic example of a sham being pulled off by a disreputable outfitter if the details given in this report are correct. To classify all South African hunts as being like this is kak as they say over there. I don't know how many times Jacques @JKO HUNTING SAFARIS has told me "No Phil, not the one we're looking for" in regards to I don't know how many species while hunting in South Africa. He did the same, while in Uganda, location was irrelevant. It was the same on my first hunt in RSA with a different PH.

We've seen bad reports come out of Mozambique and Zimbabwe, yet we don't have this propensity for smearing those countries and their PHs due to the poor actions of a few.

I agree. This not "representative" of RSA hunts. Not my experience at all. I hunted my waterbuck on a 167K property, only about a third of it actually accessible for hunting. PH and landowner are HS chums and best friends. Neither have any idea how many waterbuck are on the property. One spring on an inaccessible ridge they counted over sixty with binoculars.

Especially with animals like waterbuck and wildebeest, the client must rely on the PH's judgement for what is or is not an acceptable trophy. What does a client who's never seen African antelope before know about judging size, age, or even sex of some of these species? My third safari I took a kudu that was well short of what the PH thought it would measure. He really felt bad about it but worked out fine for me. It was a long challenging and very difficult stalk. I took a shot that I probably shouldn't have (brush in the way) but that's entirely on me. We did get it a day and a half later. Though shorter than he expected, the bull still had a very pretty set of horns. Also the cape was crap with a bunch of missing hair. Okay because I only wanted the skull anyway. Another client anticipating a shoulder mount would have been hugely disappointed. So, though not +50", it was a very satisfactory hunt for all concerned, even the bull. He was in very tough shape.

I can't see any excuse for this. Not for the PH. Anyone who hunts these animals professionally MUST have known that waterbuck was a dink. From any angle. I know it's a dink and would have laughed at any PH who told me to shoot it. But I have seen maybe a hundred of them. If the PH was the outfitter/landowner, then client should not have paid anything. This is a PH "mistake". Landowner sells the meat and pockets that money. It's essentially a cull hunt.

 

[uplander01]

Live and learn, your hunt, your shot. pH’s are human, and some far better than others.

 

[Inline6]

Live and learn, your hunt, your shot. pH’s are human, and some far better than others.

Yeah we also have to place a certain amount of trust in our PHs.

 

[PARA45]

This is why PHs go to school to become a PH. We can all say, "you shouldn't have shot", well, that is why we are paying the PH to guide us and tell us when to shoot and at what animal. If this was the only male Waterbuck in the property, well, then the PH knew exactly what they were after. Based on the little information we have; I'd say this was a bad and dishonest call on the PH.

 

[Hemingway's Karl]

Sorry for your bad experience. I recently took a waterbuck in South Africa on the Manketti Reserve with Quagga Safaris, back in June. The attached shows what a mature bull should look like.

The Manketti Reserve is about 56,000 acres, so there were was a ton of room to roam and we saw an insane number of waterbuck there (they could sense that I didn't want to hunt them and/or I have some inherent musk that attracts waterbucks). It got to the point where the PH identified this one and begged me to remove it from its mortal coils at the end of the day (I also suspect he was tired of saying "waterbuck!" and me saying "nah"). At this stage, I figured the hunting gods were compelling me to hunt waterbuck, so I finally relented and we got this guy after a short stalk. And that's how I got "Sundowner."

 

[375Fox]

This is why PHs go to school to become a PH. We can all say, "you shouldn't have shot", well, that is why we are paying the PH to guide us and tell us when to shoot and at what animal. If this was the only male Waterbuck in the property, well, then the PH knew exactly what they were after. Based on the little information we have; I'd say this was a bad and dishonest call on the PH.

A 7 day PH course doesn’t mean much. Even in Zimbabwe where it takes several years to become a licensed PH you need to verify you can trust the PH/Outfitter you are hunting with. Reputation and experience means a lot more than being a licensed PH.

 

[YancyW]

Who is the outfitter, who is the PH and where did you buy the hunt? This sounds like a train wreck of a hunt, help people reading this keep from having the same awful experience.

 

[Moe324]

Hey guys I was waiting until the two trophy animals he had got picked up to list his name. I was worried he would purposely damaged them. I'm still typing up the whole story putting as much detail in it as possible because I know it's my word against his. Really wish my girlfriend would of videoed them. Once I post the write up I'll come back here and post the name. He actually sent the waterbuck to the taxidermist even tho I said I didn't want it and never got a picture with it. So Craig at Bullseye in Vaalwater measured it today.

 

[Moe324]

Waterbuck was under 25"

 

[Moe324]

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

A 7 day PH course doesn’t mean much. Even in Zimbabwe where it takes several years to become a licensed PH you need to verify you can trust the PH/Outfitter you are hunting with. Reputation and experience means a lot more than being a licensed PH.

Zach, I agree with you thoroughly. There are a few that have been fighting a long time to try and get a better system for RSA but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Would like to see us move towards an apprenticeship system as well. A couple of years ago, I even spoke to the PHASA President at that time, but it doesn't seem to be something they deem necessary. You ask questions why, and my suspicion is that the apprenticeship will only get the serious individuals who wishes to make a living from hunting to pursue Professional Hunting as a profession, which is what will go a long way in repairing RSA's reputation. However, less PH's I guess means less membership which is the last thing an organization wants.

Saying this, I hunted in Zimbabwe a couple years back where an apprentice in his second year didn't really seem to know how to hold a rifle for some photos that would count towards his training. I loved a lot about that system, but its far from a shoo-in for being cut out for the job.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Waterbuck was under 25"

Sir, forget about the length. From the photos, the bases on this bull is solid which would point that it is a mature bull. Not all areas are equal in terms of trophy quality.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Sir, forget about the length. From the photos, the bases on this bull is solid which would point that it is a mature bull. Not all areas are equal in terms of trophy quality.

Would you then consider this a cull bull?

 

[375Fox]

View attachment 624661

If that measurement is correct +/- 25” is not a bad waterbuck. It’s not breaking any records but is very acceptable most areas if mature. The shape isn’t particularly appealing though. From the photo I didn’t think quite as long.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Would you then consider this a cull bull?

Phil, Not really. If the OP had a certain size in mind that he wanted to achieve, this should have been communicated to the PH beforehand. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. All things being equal in terms of maturity, a hunter might see a 24" bull a much better trophy due to how hard he had to work for his bull, compared to someone shooting a 30" off the back of a truck.
There is a difference between a hunter and a collector, but for the sake of conservation, maturity should be non-negotiable.
From the photos, it seems like the bases on this bull are solid. Would like to see better photos of him, especially from the front. Solid bases signifies that this bull would not have gotten much longer.

Saying this, of course, a hunter has every right to turn this bull down and look for something better. This is where the Professional Hunter comes in and where his knowledge on the area pays dividends.

 

[Moe324]

If that measurement is correct +/- 25” is not a bad waterbuck. It’s not breaking any records but is very acceptable most areas if mature. The shape isn’t particularly appealing though. From the photo I didn’t think quite as long.

If that measurement is correct +/- 25” is not a bad waterbuck. It’s not breaking any records but is very acceptable most areas if mature. The shape isn’t particularly appealing though. From the photo I didn’t think quite as long.

I honestly wasn't upset about the length. It was the shape and the fact he never said anything about it in 5 days. Also he told the PHASA president it was 27" without ever measuring it.

 

[Moe324]

Phil, Not really. If the OP had a certain size in mind that he wanted to achieve, this should have been communicated to the PH beforehand. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. All things being equal in terms of maturity, a hunter might see a 24" bull a much better trophy due to how hard he had to work for his bull, compared to someone shooting a 30" off the back of a truck.
There is a difference between a hunter and a collector, but for the sake of conservation, maturity should be non-negotiable.
From the photos, it seems like the bases on this bull are solid. Would like to see better photos of him, especially from the front. Solid bases signifies that this bull would not have gotten much longer.

Saying this, of course, a hunter has every right to turn this bull down and look for something better. This is where the Professional Hunter comes in and where his knowledge on the area pays dividends.

 

[Hunt anything]

Your eland and reedbuck seem to measure ok. Might as well keep the waterbuck and just have a euro done. By the pictures you sent that waterbuck looked to be in the upper teens to low twenties. 25” not as bad as it looked.

 

[Moe324]

Phil, Not really. If the OP had a certain size in mind that he wanted to achieve, this should have been communicated to the PH beforehand. A trophy is in the eye of the beholder. All things being equal in terms of maturity, a hunter might see a 24" bull a much better trophy due to how hard he had to work for his bull, compared to someone shooting a 30" off the back of a truck.
There is a difference between a hunter and a collector, but for the sake of conservation, maturity should be non-negotiable.
From the photos, it seems like the bases on this bull are solid. Would like to see better photos of him, especially from the front. Solid bases signifies that this bull would not have gotten much longer.

Saying this, of course, a hunter has every right to turn this bull down and look for something better. This is where the Professional Hunter comes in and where his knowledge on the area pays dividends.