Unwelcome news: Ammo Supply Unlikely to Return to Normal Anytime Soon

[gbflyer]

It’s not just ammo. Welcome to Joe Biden’s Rising America.

 

[gizmo]

I still can’t for the life of me figure out why in the hell ammo manufacturers didn’t vastly expand their facilities. I realize that they have grown since say 08 but come on, really? It’s been 12 years, 12 years since the first ammo shortage. Since the day Obama was elected there has not been a time since ammo and reloading components have been readily available across the board like pre 08 levels. Even during Trump’s pre Covid presidency, while it was better, it wasn’t even remotely pre 08. Primer manufacturing is one of the biggest Achilles heels. Also, many manufacturers load just one or two high demand calibers at a time. Then have to shut down and change everything over to load another. This seems silly to me and very inefficient. Especially considering we’ve been a nation at war since 01 and military calibers/demand takes precedence. You can’t tell me that over the course of 12 years much much more investment and expansion couldn’t have been done.
Also companies like Remington going tits up has compounded the problem at least on the production end.
I get being conservative and not wanting to over invest and that hind sight is 20/20 but come on! A blind man could have predicted this coming and any investment made from 08 on would have paid for itself a million times over.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i reloaded my first shells in 1958 for a rem 722 in .244 rem and killed deer with them and it lead me into a life long reloading hobby that has paid off when ammo shortages show up. when i bought primers-bullets-powder i bought double what i needed and stored the second items in army ammo cans. so no shortages for me and i do help friends out with some supplies from time to time.

 

[Uncompahgre]

There is also the supply chain problem. Please correct me if I am wrong but neither Remington, Federal, Winchester and Hornady make their own powders. They don't make the raw brass. They don't make the raw lead. They don't make the raw copper. Even if every ammo manufacturer ramped up production they can't get the raw material to make the ammo. Part of Remington's bankruptcy problems centered around ramping up ammo production. The company invested millions in new plant and equipment. Then the Trump slump hit them. I'm not saying that was their only problem but it was a major one. Remington also had piss poor management and that certainly didn't help. I was told that ammo production almost ceased during the bankruptcy proceedings. That was 6 months of no production. Even after Federal bought the Remington ammo line, production didn't start right away.

 

[JimP]

You might also figure in Remington's bankruptcy and the problems that it may of thrown into the loop.

But that doesn't count against all the other companies. I attribute a lot of it to the panic buying last year when everyone was afraid that the riots were going to overtake them, so they stocked up on TP and went out and purchased firearms. Then with those firearms a few boxes of shells.

What I really don't understand is the run on reloading dies. I understand the components but not the dies themselves.

 

[Firebird]

A guy I do some work with owns a trucking company-he said his industry is crazy right now-liquids and dry goods both-he can’t get enough drivers not enough trucks and not enough hours in a day. . . He did bring me some powder though, he is no fool!

 

[mdwest]

A guy I do some work with owns a trucking company-he said his industry is crazy right now-liquids and dry goods both-he can’t get enough drivers not enough trucks and not enough hours in a day. . . He did bring me some powder though, he is no fool!

I drove a 7 hour leg of I30 and I40 last week and the same 7 hours in the other direction the week before...

I can attest that heavy truck traffic is the thickest I’ve probably seen it in my life... semis as far as the eye can see, continually, for the entire trip...

 

[Mekaniks]

I am not sure what or who to believe. My feed store just received 3 pallets full of Hornady ammo. Luckily I got a call and got over there. I just got 1 case of .300PRC ($51/box), 1 - 6.5PRC, and 1 case 9mm self defense ammo. I won’t be “that guy” hoarding for no reason. But where in the past I’d keep 3-4 boxes of ammo for something I shoot often now it will be 15-20 boxes.
So how is it that the feed store, who is a brand new FFL dealer, gets pallets of ammo and my three well known gun shops have squat?
I am unconcerned with the 9mm and .223 being in stock it’s the complete lack of hunting ammo that WE NEED that is no where to be found.
Maybe start checking your local feed store
Regards,
Philip

Phillip,
Its because they all are supplied from the same distributers. When a shipment comes in the distributers allocate based on each stores orders and how much they have previously ordered/received (rationing to allow all stores to get some). Your feed store was probably at the top of the list that week because they didn't receive any, or only a partial, the week(s) before.

 

[Mekaniks]

A guy I do some work with owns a trucking company-he said his industry is crazy right now-liquids and dry goods both-he can’t get enough drivers not enough trucks and not enough hours in a day. . . He did bring me some powder though, he is no fool!

Yup, Cargo ships are backed up at the ports right now because there is not enough trucks, warehouse, rail, and yard space to keep the cargo moving

 

[gizmo]

There is also the supply chain problem. Please correct me if I am wrong but neither Remington, Federal, Winchester and Hornady make their own powders. They don't make the raw brass. They don't make the raw lead. They don't make the raw copper. Even if every ammo manufacturer ramped up production they can't get the raw material to make the ammo. Part of Remington's bankruptcy problems centered around ramping up ammo production. The company invested millions in new plant and equipment. Then the Trump slump hit them. I'm not saying that was their only problem but it was a major one. Remington also had piss poor management and that certainly didn't help. I was told that ammo production almost ceased during the bankruptcy proceedings. That was 6 months of no production. Even after Federal bought the Remington ammo line, production didn't start right away.

That a huge issue. I understand outsourcing parts and components is in a lot of cases the most economical way to do it. That said, investing in infrastructure, for lack of a better term, seems to be a no brainer. Not to mention the extra income derived from suppling others both at home and over seas. It also gives better over all control of your product.
It would take an astronomical investment for a person or company to start a new company from the ground up and few people that actually have the fiscal means to do so are on our side. The major manufacturers however have the means and ability to do so implementing things over time. They wouldn’t have to start from scratch either unless they just wanted to either as it could be feasible to buy out current companies and expand if necessary. It would also allow them to prioritize manufacturing.
Primers then and now have always been the weakest link. WTF doesn’t one of these companies start making primers.
I’ve been very disappointed in the ammunition and components industry. They have consistently let consumers, themselves, and this country down for 12 years and counting. Any increase in demand has caused the entire industry to fall on its ass. It’s now a global problem.
In WWII we as a country went from a sub average industrial country to the worlds leading industrial juggernaut due to military needs and demand. Annnnd we did so with astonishing speed.
The civilian gun owners in the US are the largest armed population on earth even counting our own and all global militaries. You cannot tell me the need, means, and ability isnt there. Once under control, companies could restructure to meet varying demand and still not loose the ability to respond to and meet an increase in demand.
This entire situation is absolutely pathetic in today’s day and time.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Stephen Gutowski is a good follow on Twitter or Facebook. Sadly his update today isn't good news, but also isn't terribly surprising.

Manufacturers Say Ammo Shortage Will Stretch Out for Years

“On certain products, we are certainly seeing backlogs that stretch out two years and beyond,” Brett Flaugher, president of Winchester Ammunition, told The Reload. “For those who shoot 9mm and 5.56 ammunition, which are both in high demand, it’s very uncertain how long it will be before people...

thereload.com

@Goose Cracker
A very enlightening article. In the near future things don't look good.
Even if people chose to reload with cast projectiles we still have the problem of primer and powder shortages. Fortunately in Australia we don't have a powder shortage yet but primers and projectiles are getting harder to obtain. Fortunately we also have a couple of bullet makers in OZ like Woodleigh, Outer Edge and Atomic 29.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

I still can’t for the life of me figure out why in the hell ammo manufacturers didn’t vastly expand their facilities. I realize that they have grown since say 08 but come on, really? It’s been 12 years, 12 years since the first ammo shortage. Since the day Obama was elected there has not been a time since ammo and reloading components have been readily available across the board like pre 08 levels. Even during Trump’s pre Covid presidency, while it was better, it wasn’t even remotely pre 08. Primer manufacturing is one of the biggest Achilles heels. Also, many manufacturers load just one or two high demand calibers at a time. Then have to shut down and change everything over to load another. This seems silly to me and very inefficient. Especially considering we’ve been a nation at war since 01 and military calibers/demand takes precedence. You can’t tell me that over the course of 12 years much much more investment and expansion couldn’t have been done.
Also companies like Remington going tits up has compounded the problem at least on the production end.
I get being conservative and not wanting to over invest and that hind sight is 20/20 but come on! A blind man could have predicted this coming and any investment made from 08 on would have paid for itself a million times over.

I called the Sierra bullet company during the Obama ammo/components shortage. I spoke with their production manager and he told me they were running three shifts 24/7. I'm sure all of the manufacturers were doing the same then and are now. But, we didn't have a pandemic/riots then either. Unlike now, the supply of shotgun shells were not an issue. But, if you remember, DHS had ordered several million rounds of handgun ammo then, and the military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan ate into the civilian supply of available ammo/components. The military had ordered over a "billion" primers from Federal, thus no primers available for us. I do remember the shortages, but not the drastically inflated prices we're seeing now. I think with Biden's constant threat to the 2nd Amendment (Obama waited until he was re elected to act) through executive actions just months into his presidency, the psychological effect has led to panic buying of EVERYTHING firearm/ammo related. I don't see this ending anytime soon.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't think between the Wal Marts and Sportsman's Warehouse HERE, they've had 125 cases of shells combined in the last several months and nothing over 7.5 or 8 shot. None of them have any common centerfire HUNTING ammo either. Wal Mart has nothing. Sportsman's Warehouse, Bass Pro and some smaller stores have 5.56, 9mm, 6.5 this or 6.8 that, Weatherby Mag, Nosler proprietary ammo, and you can buy all the .224 Valkyrie (whatever that is?) stuff you want. But, try and find .270 Win, .308 or even .30-06. I gave my hunting buddy's son a box of .338WM Rem Core Lokts as he had purchased a rifle last fall and went through the couple of boxes he had bought with the rifle. I think I paid $52/box for those over a year ago. Midway is selling that same .338 ammo for $118/box. Absurd! It will all stabilize eventually, but I feel for those who didn't plan ahead and are now having to pay exorbitant ammo prices to play the hunting game.

@CoElkHunter
I think when it all settles back down we will still be paying high prices for ammo. It will just be a,fact of life.
Bob

 

[CoElkHunter]

@CoElkHunter
I think when it all settles back down we will still be paying high prices for ammo. It will just be a,fact of life.
Bob

Bob,
Maybe it's time to take up archery? Ha! Ha!
CEH

 

[JimP]

The inflated prices are just supply and demand. The same thing went on while Clinton was in office along with Obama. When a liberal takes office the scare goes out about gun confiscation and everyone goes out and buys everything that is on the shelf.

Cost wise I think that a lot is going to stay high. Metal prices are right up there with wood. Copper and brass have increased quite a bit so the ammo manufacturers just pass on the increase to us the shooters, but that is for store bought supplies.

Those on Gun Broker and other sites are trying to make their fortunes by.by selling at inflated prices. I know that I have said this before but a gunshop that I went into during Obama's years was selling a 375 pack of 22Lr for $175 and he said that they were selling.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The inflated prices are just supply and demand. The same thing went on while Clinton was in office along with Obama. When a liberal takes office the scare goes out about gun confiscation and everyone goes out and buys everything that is on the shelf.

Cost wise I think that a lot is going to stay high. Metal prices are right up there with wood. Copper and brass have increased quite a bit so the ammo manufacturers just pass on the increase to us the shooters, but that is for store bought supplies.

Those on Gun Broker and other sites are trying to make their fortunes by.by selling at inflated prices. I know that I have said this before but a gunshop that I went into during Obama's years was selling a 375 pack of 22Lr for $175 and he said that they were selling.

I wonder if GB was even around in 2008? Today, local sellers/gun shows are basing their prices off the sellers/buyers inflated prices on GB and other sites. You do have a valid point as to the high costs of materials used to make ammo/components. I fear for our pastime as the younger firearms owners/hunters may not have the financial means to continue down this path? Like many, I can afford/absorb the increased costs, but at some point, the younger generations may see the "fun factor" vs. diminishing returns (costs and availability) as a huge obstacle. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it does concern me.

 

[JimP]

In my area most of the younger generation are out in the hills blowing away a hundred dollars worth of steel case 7.62x39 ammo.

I used to do a pretty good business picking up brass and sorting it to piles to sell and piles to keep. This last month all I have been seeing are the steel case ones.

 

[CoElkHunter]

A guy I do some work with owns a trucking company-he said his industry is crazy right now-liquids and dry goods both-he can’t get enough drivers not enough trucks and not enough hours in a day. . . He did bring me some powder though, he is no fool!

Why work driving a truck? Sleepy China Joe's Covid stimulus is paying them not to work through increased unemployment benefits and more on the way! Yahooo! Better to stay home and make a little less while doing nothing except smoking cigarettes and watching Captain Kangaroo on Nickelodeon. Now THAT is the American wet dream! Ha! Ha! Ha!

 

[johnnyblues]

Let's see....

If 72 million gun owners each had 31,250 rounds of ammo that would be a paltry 2.25 TRILLION rounds of ammunition. We need a new law in GA about NYers moving down here and buying up all our ammo.

I told Mrs Goose Cracker I was messing with @johnnyblues about his ammo stash and she says "uh, are you sure you have room to give him sh1t about hoarding ammo?"

No worries brother, FYI when we bought the pallets they were purchased from a distributor up north! Lol

 

[CoElkHunter]

In my area most of the younger generation are out in the hills blowing away a hundred dollars worth of steel case 7.62x39 ammo.

I used to do a pretty good business picking up brass and sorting it to piles to sell and piles to keep. This last month all I have been seeing are the steel case ones.

Some genius needs to figure out how to reload steel cases? Titanium dies and power assist cam on a reloading press for resizing? Might sound expensive but think about how many steel cases are being thrown away?