Trophy pick up day!! NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks Wayne. I cannot forward them to anybody, they aint mine.
................

Oh well, some times you win. Other's you lose. Sucks for you mate.

I'll take the warning seriously. Thanks.

 

[enysse]

I'm very sorry about all your troubles here. I know you are a stand up guy. You are not trying to cheat the system. I have always paid the "arm and leg" treatment people to clear my trophies for one simple reason....they know what buttons to push if the sh#t hits the fan. Unfortunately that is what our government has come down to...who has the power. I learned this a while back when I was in the public works. I saw lawyers spending tens of thousands of dollars on pointless BS, something they could have settled in 2 minutes, just to show each other who had more power. Our justice system and political system is a disgrace as far as I'm concerned...I've done the assessment already.

 

[Albertaguy]

Wow! How frustrating! It frosts my ass when paper pushing low level A - holes try to turn a law abiding citizen into a criminal!

 

[enysse]

I hope you and your son continue when you can to hunt Africa. I know this is hard and frustrating as heck for you. Try to view it as a stepping stone and another hurdle you have to meet to get to your goals.

 

[gillettehunter]

What a mess. The Feds just seem determined to make this harder than what it has to be. I am sorry for your difficulties. Best of luck on resolving it. Bruce

 

[lcq]

Its getting more interesting now. They have the ZAPHR in hand and after careful scrutiny have decided I need to get written permission for me and my boy hunt on the several properties that we of course hunted on with friends of our PH! This after nearly a year has passed.So of course there probably never was any written permission, especially for my boy. I wrote them back a nice long letter which I shan't recall here but words to the effect of as Hillary recently said. "what at this point does it matter?!" Still waiting for a reply.

I would say this to the members. At this point, with the current administration and their apparent attitudes towards hunting and guns, do everything by the book. Do not try to cut shipping costs by lumping hunt partners trophies in with yours. Ask your PH about permission slips to hunt all properties. Make sure you have a ZAPHR form for all hunters in the party. We are now dealing with pettiness on a galactic scale! Depending on what I hear back from the "gals" at the SeaTac office, I may try to get ahold of someone a bit higher up as I feel like I am being unfairly treated, and I do. And I told them so. This is becoming a nightmare. So one more time guys, WATCH OUT!

And enysse, I did all as you describe and it got me nowhere. This wasn't my first rodeo as people say.

easier just to tell them what they want to hear. I have no problem lying to arseholes

 

[lcq]

I actually think they would like that. It wont cost them anything, just cost me a bundle.

isn't it great, you pay for their worthless jobs so they can screw you over with your taxes. sadly the same the world over

 

[lcq]

Well Wayne and fellow members, its worse than that even. Having just spent a half hour on the phone with the very understanding Rosella (she called me!) at SSI she put it to me as I really already expected and had resigned myself too as early as yesterday, but its nice to hear it from the pros. Upshot is I am screwed and will likely in the end have to forfeit my trophies to the wonderful USFWS for non compliance with all the hoops they want me and my outfitter to jump thru which will be very difficult and time consuming if not impossible and certainly very impractical. I can only conclude they want me to not have my property more than I am willing to go thru to keep it. Unlike our all knowing federal govt, I don't have unlimited time and resources. Its still sitting at the Delta cargo offices near SeaTac airport and will likely remain there until FWS decides to got get it and destroy it. Its basically beyond my reach to finish this journey. My boy is taking it well, probably better than I, he is becoming a man now having just graduated HS. Its too bad that his first dealings with what I always considered to be one of the good federal agencies has turned so sour, I hate to see him become like me, a die hard skeptic, at such an early age. I will wait until I hear from my PH either late tonight or tomorrow and see what he says, but I am not going to try to make him jump thru a bunch of hoops in RSA, and put his business on hold and possibly jeopardize that business just to satisfy the pencil pushing, fat ass, bureaucrats on this side of the big pond. It aint worth it. So unless he says something to change my mind, I will be telling the twits at FWS to take my consignment and stuff it where the sun don't shine. Not looking for pity here as like most things in life this is largely a product of my own doing. At 61 I ought to know better by now. A little depressed right now but I'll get over it. Actually its a relief to see this sham almost over with, I hope. I wish to offer my sincere thanks to Robert and Rosella at SSI for giving the push I needed to get this going in the right direction. I was almost there anyway but I sure appreciate the help nonetheless. I offered to pay for their time and good folks that they are they refused payment. We have a very valuable member here in SSI guys! Next time I wont plan on self clearing!! LOL!!! Might as well laugh, the jokes on me!! If anything changes I will post again.

I'm unaware of your laws but there are ways to cause government bureaucrats in Canada a world of pain for $5 and a little of your time. It is called a Freedom of Information request. Each request involves many bureaucrats including the douchebags who screwed you over. They all have to be involved in the request and it is just a miserable task. Nothing to stop you doing it again and again. These bureaucrats are like the schoolyard bully and pick on those who don't fight back. I would make their lives as miserable as possible. Karma

 

[lcq]

I just had a thought. How about an organized campaign of FOI requests each slightly different each from different individuals (a few hundred would be brutal). It wouldn't take long before the onerous process caused them to implode and cry uncle. In Canada they must deliver in 30 days or face penalties.

 

[johnnyblues]

I am sorry to hear about this mess. What a shame to put law abiding folks doing lawful hunts in this position. This is why I would never consider clearing my own trophies. I hired SSI for my upcoming leopard hunt. These folks so far have been outstanding with my questions, contacting my PH etc.. I will post further on them after my hunt and hopefully I will have some trophies to clear.

 

[sestoppelman]

Thanks for all of that guys. Its still ongoing. My outfitter seems to think he can satisfy the FWS requirements. I am not so sure, as I don't think he quite understands the level of pettiness these types can display. I have to give this a chance though as its possible, just possible it can be resolved. On a scale of 1-10, I feel its up to about a 2+! I expect to hear from him tomorrow and see what he is able to produce. If that is not enough for FWS, then at that point I will probably just tell them to seize it all and have done with it. We'll see and I will update.

 

[lcq]

Thanks for all of that guys. Its still ongoing. My outfitter seems to think he can satisfy the FWS requirements. I am not so sure, as I don't think he quite understands the level of pettiness these types can display. I have to give this a chance though as its possible, just possible it can be resolved. On a scale of 1-10, I feel its up to about a 2+! I expect to hear from him tomorrow and see what he is able to produce. If that is not enough for FWS, then at that point I will probably just tell them to seize it all and have done with it. We'll see and I will update.

I really hope for your sake you prevail and best of luck. If not don't let them get away with it without causing them as much grief as you can legally inflict on them.

 

[James.Grage]

I remember a similar situation a few years back where a father & son were on safari in Namibia. The shipment of trophies to the states were in the fathers name.

If memory serves me the father and son also were clearing their trophies when the agent asked the son was along if any of the trophies were his. The son indicated that some of the trophies were his.

After some charges and after a attorney became involved the father was able to clear his trophies and the son's trophies were forfeited. The fine was suspended for the father and son.

I think it was for improper paperwork. It had nothing to do with the legal taking of trophies, it revolved with the paperwork, being filled out in the fathers name. The son was not listed, they provided all the paperwork to show that the hunt was on the up & up, that did not deter the FWS from filing charges.

 

[robertq]

Dear Scott,

Unfortunately, the regulations will prevail. The entry of personally hunted trophies into the USA must be accompanied by export permits in the name of hunter who pulled the trigger. The age of the hunter does not matter. Unless your outfitter can go back and alter his hunting register to reflect two hunters, each with the trophies they harvested, he will NOT be able to produce the proper export paperwork. Why? Because Nature Conservation requires the hunting register in order to produce export permits. I will tell you this will not happen easily or without issue because Nature Conservation will question the motive. Further, it takes upwards of 6+ weeks to get new permits issued.

This situation is cut and dry. The shame of the matter is that USFWL threw out the bait: you were innocent, your son was excited to talk about the hunt and USFWL prevailed. They are protected by the regulation. Your son's trophies are in the US illegally which is the point they are making.

We work with USFWL 24/7....We understand how they operate....We know their motive.......USFWL is not our friend....Our job is to prevent things like this from happening.

To All:
The reason we joined this forum is to help our fellow hunters. If anyone has any questions, please post them on the forum and we will respond. If you want to hire us to handle your trophies, we are only a phone call away.

Regards,
Robert

 

[Pheroze]

Robert,

Thank you for the clarification. The originating error is with those tasked with getting trophies processed and sent overseas. Can't he take a Mulligan? Send the trophies back to the shipper and do the paperwork over? What is this gotcha thing. Surely the paperwork can be done over to reflect the reality of a legal hunt.

 

[Hank2211]

Dear Scott,

Unfortunately, the regulations will prevail. The entry of personally hunted trophies into the USA must be accompanied by export permits in the name of hunter who pulled the trigger. The age of the hunter does not matter. Unless your outfitter can go back and alter his hunting register to reflect two hunters, each with the trophies they harvested, he will NOT be able to produce the proper export paperwork. Why? Because Nature Conservation requires the hunting register in order to produce export permits. I will tell you this will not happen easily or without issue because Nature Conservation will question the motive. Further, it takes upwards of 6+ weeks to get new permits issued.

This situation is cut and dry. The shame of the matter is that USFWL threw out the bait: you were innocent, your son was excited to talk about the hunt and USFWL prevailed. They are protected by the regulation. Your son's trophies are in the US illegally which is the point they are making.

We work with USFWL 24/7....We understand how they operate....We know their motive.......USFWL is not our friend....Our job is to prevent things like this from happening.

To All:
The reason we joined this forum is to help our fellow hunters. If anyone has any questions, please post them on the forum and we will respond. If you want to hire us to handle your trophies, we are only a phone call away.

Regards,
Robert

This is the problem, and it's really straightforward. It's always been the law, but it seems it's only recently been enforced.

Having said that, and I know I'm opening myself up to abuse, but it makes sense.

Many people go to Africa with family, and there is only one "hunter". The others are observers. At some point the father says to the PH can my son take a shot, or the PH says "would your son like to take a shot", and the son takes the shot and gets a beautiful trophy. In most countries, you've just broken the law. Heck, in the US and Canada you've just broken the law. We would never question the fact that even if you take your son deer hunting, if he doesn't have a permit, and you let him shoot, and you put your tag on it, and tell the fish and wildlife guy that you shot it, you've committed an offence (and I don't mean lying to a federal officer, though that's an offence too, in the US. In Canada, we still get to lie). Likely poaching. No different in most of Africa.

My son lives in the US and I live in Canada. when I booked a hunt for the two of us, the outfitter said he could charge my son as an observer, and I would be the hunter. I thanked him for his consideration, but said we both needed the proper paperwork, especially since the trophies would have to be split up for shipment, so we both were registered as hunters, and both allowed to bring home whatever we took. I also made sure that for every trophy my son took, he had pictures with just himself and without me. It might sound like I'm paranoid, but just because you're honest doesn't mean you won't be asked to prove it. There are way too many dishonest people in the world to ever think honest people will get the benefit of the doubt or not have to comply with rules made to catch the dishonest (who will, of course, continue to disregard those rules).

Sorry this happened to you Ses.

 

[robertq]

Hi Pherozi,
Let me be even more clear. USFWL is baiting again....they are asking for the correct paperwork. If this was a matter of incorrect paperwork, they would have immediately instructed for the shipment to be exported back. This did not happen. The only way to get correct paperwork is to produce the hunting license to Nature Conservation for the export papers. There is no hunting license. No hunting license = poaching. That's why the animals can't be sent back. This is why I am saying that it is another baiting tactic by USFWL. Let the outfitter do what he thinks he can do and hopefully USFWL will be lenient.

Hank2211, you are absolutely correct....thanks for sharing.

 

[Divernhunter]

If I get to hunt out of the USA again and even in just another state I will always take one photo of me with my animal giving the finger. That will be the photo I show any Gov agent.

 

[Pheroze]

Oh boy. This is a warning to us all. Make sure the hunting lic are in order! I would have just assumed all was in order as a part of the booking. Thanks for the info.

 

[lwaters]

I am glad my stuff arrives in Dallas Texas. Texans are more hunter friendly