Touchy Subject?

[rookhawk]

Now, first off, I don’t want to give anyone any ideas! To be honest I’m a little hesitant to post this.

I was talking with a PH and I was honestly taken aback when he told me this but I am a bit gullible and treat people fairly, just as I expect to be treated. So, as we all know, It is normal for clients to hunt a package or otherwise commit to a pricing schedule prior to the hunt and then add what Africa provides above that and, in doing so, can run up a very large bill. Think groups with a tally totaling 6 figures. Or, sometimes the agreement is for a large number of animals in the first place with no add-ons. Then, when settling the bill, now the haggling starts. They expect that since they are paying so much they deserve a serious discount. Now, my mind just doesn’t work that way; it just seems dishonest. This PH I was talking to said it is fairly common and the debate gets pretty heated at times.

That’s not how I want to bookend my experience.

I guess they feel that the fun is over and they will never see them again so nothing to lose and maybe a little to gain.

Is this as common as I was led to believe? I can’t imagine an outfit capitulating.

Is this common with all outfitters everywhere or just Africa? Would be good to hear from some PH’s. Do any of you anticipate this happening ahead of time?

Personally, I think this practice is in extremely poor taste and I hope I haven’t just exacerbated the problem.

These sorts of things are more common in RSA and other countries with game ranches because of the private ownership of all the game. Cutting both ways, some clients want to upgrade their trophy already shot each day as they see a bigger one, alternatively the PH is nudging the client to shoot everything possible.

It is the above factors that then leads to a very tacky conversation from all parties at the end of the hunt. "Lets make a deal". That can occur from a sleazy client welching on their agreed package, or it can be a tactic of the operator/PH saying "shoot it and we'll figure it out later, or I'll give you a good <not disclosed> price while you're on sticks".

Never had to deal with this because I've never hunted a place where the PH/Operator owned the game. In places like Zim and other similar frontier hunting regions they will tell you before the hunt what they have on quota. They will ask you prior to arrival if you want any or all of their quota species added to your license free of charge. Once on the ground, you either shoot them or you don't, but there isn't an opportunity to shift prices or add animals beyond that because the quota is what it is and the quota is property of the government.

Not saying Zim is better than RSA, I'm just explaining that the negative to RSA especially is the OPs scenario can happen, and in many other places it cannot.

The plus to RSA is its business and conservation model is one of the two best success stories on earth for the restoration of game species. (the other being USA) The RSA business model of private ownership of game is why they have the game they do, that's the plus. The minus is the OPs question which does/can happen there.

 

[DillonG]

You haggle before not after period.

This is the correct way to negotiate or “haggle”. Work out the pricing up front, honor it, and enjoy the adventure. I’ve dealt with too many people in business that want to haggle after product/service is complete.

The correct way to handle this situation is to reference the signed contract.

Don’t be a scumbag. Pay what you owe.

 

[Justbryan]

I cannot stand people trying to use their power (money) and influence to take advantage of others. The very wealthy people I personally know are some of the most generous people on the planet and they do it in secret.

Some of those who negotiate bills and hold outfitters hostage when they owe the money are just playing wealthy and can barely pay their bills. They live in mansions with no curtains!

 

[Doubleplay]

Haggling sends a message: you're quote wasn't your best effort. This reminds me of the one and only time in my

If my outfitter and I expect to be on friendly terms, we won't be haggling. Frankly, I don't give a crap about car dealers or industrial product vendors. That's just business. But my safari is supposed to be pleasure. I want to get away from business. I would like it if my operator and I became friends ... genuine friends.

Your safari is a pleasure for you but definitely business for your outfitter and for them business and pleasure don't mix.
You do whatever you like but don't try to tell me when I'm about to book a an elephant hunt for $40K asking for my wife's observer fees to be included in the package is wrong!
Before I shake hands I'll try to get the best deal I can and after that I'll honor the agreement.
Hunting in Africa is not a popularity contest, it's a business.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Your safari is a pleasure for you but definitely business for your outfitter and for them business and pleasure don't mix.
You do whatever you like but don't try to tell me when I'm about to book a an elephant hunt for $40K asking for my wife's observer fees to be included in the package is wrong!
Before I shake hands I'll try to get the best deal I can and after that I'll honor the agreement.
Hunting in Africa is not a popularity contest, it's a business.

I suspect you don't consider much of your life a popularity contest. That's fine. I try to make my safari a friendly affair. As friendly as possible anyway. Let's be real here: the safari business is mostly show and tell. You know, double rifles, thousand dollar hats, Ruark's bourbon, Hemingway's cigars, etc. Why should being my PH's friend not be part of the show?

I was raised in a small rural Montana community where everyone knew each other. If you wanted to haggle with local businesses, you were not respected. People did business with the hagglers because they had to. But the hagglers were never welcome. Some folks don't mind being unwelcome for a few bucks (cents?). Pretty sad. I'd like to think my safari operator genuinely wants to see me return, not just for the money. Maybe I'm wrong. Hard to tell I guess. But appearances are what safaris are all about.

If you didn't get your wife's observer fees sorted out before you inked the $40K contract, yeah I would say you really shouldn't expect to get that included after the fact. When you signed, did you expect she would be able to tag along for nothing? I've never seen a posted safari outfitter's price list that did not specify observer rates separately from trophy fees and PH's daily rate.

 

[Newboomer]

This is the correct way to negotiate or “haggle”. Work out the pricing up front, honor it, and enjoy the adventure. I’ve dealt with too many people in business that want to haggle after product/service is complete.

The correct way to handle this situation is to reference the signed contract.

Don’t be a scumbag. Pay what you owe.

A signed contract. Those are the key words in any hunt. Everything is spelled out and a contract is signed by both parties before the hunt. It's a business deal like any other. Anyone not getting a contract signed by both parties has no one to blame but himself. Animals taken outside the contract should be negotiated before being taken. Eliminates hidden charges and questions and makes for a much better relationship if you want to hunt with that outfitter again.

On my first safari I had a list of 5 animals I wanted per contract. I ended up taking 5 more. The trophy fee was not questioned by me. I knew what it was before the shot and I agreed to pay it. Because I posed no argument he gave me a break on the extras. Same for my second and third hunts (with the same outfitter). A little consideration goes a long way on both sides.

Example: On my first hunt with that outfitter I wanted a kudu. Because the area we hunted was a breeding/raising ranch for buffalo they didn't want me to use my 375HH. The noise would disturb the buf. So the outfitter lent me his suppressed 243. I questioned the caliber but he said it was what he used for culling. OOKAAY. Anyway, it worked and I got my kudu with one shot. It was the afternoon of the last day and because I had taken extra animals he didn't charge me for the rifle and ammo.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have not seen specifically what you describe, but I imagine as another client, I probably wouldn't since most people settle their bills individually with outfitters.

However, I have often seen where people who were very happy joyous people for the entire trip, suddenly have a mood shift at the end of the hunt when the bill was looming and they had added on a lot of extras. When the party is coming to an end and reality starts setting in about how much extra you spent, people sometimes have regrets and it can cause a nasty mood shift.

Ah yes. The compulsive shopper. African safari is no place for folks with that disease. And when the infection finally hits home and the bill has to be paid, they always want to shoot the wrong messenger. It's the PH's fault ... or the auctioneer. Can't pass up that deal of a lifetime! Don't be afraid to say no. The outfitter knows my limit. And he now knows just how far I may step over the line (not far). So the extra animals offered are typically extra good deals. Someone above already mentioned hunting late in the season can snag some very good prices ... without haggling. Time for property managers to get rid of old blood that the season's hunters didn't harvest.

I can't recall a first time safari hunter who wasn't convinced before leaving that he would be coming back. For me it was for certain by day two. So save the unexpected "trophy of a lifetime" for the next safari ... or the next. If you take four out of five animals quickly, take your time with #5. If you fill your tags, go culling. Can't get any better bang for the buck! Stick to the agenda that YOU'VE budgeted. Some PHs really love to hunt. Like my first guy. Gad, he could get excited! Sometimes they just want that extra special animal in the salt at the lodge. It's up to YOU to say no. "Sorry, maybe next trip." If you say yes, don't get sore when the bill comes due.