Touchy Subject?

[375Fox]

This scenario is not common and I would not want to hunt with an outfitter where it is. It signals a lack of professionalism on part of outfitter to me and the clients they attract. Agreements on pricing are made before you pull the trigger and preferably before the hunt begins. When you plan a hunt and reach a quote that is it for what you planned. If you’d like more during hunt at possibly a better deal tell your PH your interested in a certain species but not at full price list price and see what they come back to you with. If you like their offer take it and if not stick to your previously agreed hunt. I’ve often been offered better deals by outfitter during hunt, particularly at end of season. There is a professional way of doing things that is beneficial for both you and outfitter.

 

[RobBrown505]

This scenario is not common and I would not want to hunt with an outfitter where it is. It signals a lack of professionalism on part of outfitter to me and the clients they attract. Agreements on pricing are made before you pull the trigger and preferably before the hunt begins. When you plan a hunt and reach a quote that is it for what you planned. If you’d like more during hunt at possibly a better deal tell your PH your interested in a certain species but not at full price list price and see what they come back to you with. If you like their offer take it and if not stick to your previously agreed hunt. I’ve often been offered better deals by outfitter during hunt, particularly at end of season. There is a professional way of doing things that is beneficial for both you and outfitter.

Thanks @375Fox. I see your point. I just don’t know that I’d blame the outfitter. How would they know that the client is going to haggle the bill?

 

[sureshot375]

I have been around this business for almost 30 years now. I have never heard of such a thing.

I’ve seen a lot of surprise fees and expenses, especially outside of RSA, but I’ve never heard of anyone trying to haggle down their bill after the hunt.

I don’t even like package hunts. I want a daily rate, trophy fee list, and any other known expenses up front. I would never dream of trying to talk the bill down after the hunt.

 

[375Fox]

Thanks @375Fox. I see your point. I just don’t know that I’d blame the outfitter. How would they know that the client is going to haggle the bill?

The way outfitters advertise and market their hunts brings in a particular clientele. If it is common with a particular outfitter they are either accepting it as part of their business model or should consider changing the way they market their hunts to bring in hunters looking for a different experience. I’d suspect this is more common with the lowest cost and highest volume outfitters than those focusing on a quality experience.

 

[RobBrown505]

The way outfitters advertise and market their hunts brings in a particular clientele. If it is common with a particular outfitter they are either accepting it as part of their business model or should consider changing the way they market their hunts to bring in hunters looking for a different experience. I’d suspect this is more common with the lowest cost and highest volume outfitters than those focusing on a quality experience.

That makes sense

 

[mark-hunter]

Personally, I think this practice is in extremely poor taste and I hope I haven’t just exacerbated the problem.

Negotiating before the hunt is ok.
After the hunt is extremely poor taste.

I always have the price list in my pocket, but also PH with me. If something extra shows up, I make sure I double check conditions before pulling the trigger.

I also hear stories about some clients refusing to pay wounded animals. This is same category.

 

[freefall]

I guided for a few years, worked plumbing/HVAC service for 25 after that. As a general rule, the richer the client, the bitchier. Working stiffs were a joy to work for.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You haggle before not after period.

I don't haggle at all. Give me a price and I'll agree or not. If not, that is the end of it. Move on to something or someone else. I won't insult a vendor with a counter offer. I may be "thrifty" but I also try to be respectful. Similarly, an outfitter that throws the "prices subject to change without notice" crap in a contract will not get any business from me. Ever. That is an invitation for haggling.

 

[C.W. Richter]

I didn't read all the comments above yet but I've had several safaris where the pH tally at the end is significantly higher than what they proposed in the beginning and I have to say that would be taking advantage of clients! How you deal with that is your issue but it would be better if you didn't have to and it's not your fault! I vividly recall one Safari where I paid a deposit and then the final bill at the end of The Hunt was higher than the entire proposed cost of the hunt. There must be some sort of Coriolis effect combined with the exchange rate that the more schooled clients can't comprehend. You posted this thread and we answered!;

 

[mark-hunter]

I vividly recall one Safari where I paid a deposit and then the final bill at the end of The Hunt was higher than the entire proposed cost of the hunt.

No need to name the outfitter.
But, can you list the items what came up as extra, non planned costs? Which country was it?

 

[Sabre]

I have not seen specifically what you describe, but I imagine as another client, I probably wouldn't since most people settle their bills individually with outfitters.

However, I have often seen where people who were very happy joyous people for the entire trip, suddenly have a mood shift at the end of the hunt when the bill was looming and they had added on a lot of extras. When the party is coming to an end and reality starts setting in about how much extra you spent, people sometimes have regrets and it can cause a nasty mood shift.

 

[Doubleplay]

I don't haggle at all. Give me a price and I'll agree or not. If not, that is the end of it. Move on to something or someone else. I won't insult a vendor with a counter offer. I may be "thrifty" but I also try to be respectful. Similarly, an outfitter that throws the "prices subject to change without notice" crap in a contract will not get any business from me. Ever. That is an invitation for haggling.

You think it's insulting or disrespectful when you make a counter offer?
It has nothing to do with any of it.
Like any other business they are free to accept or make another counter offer.
It's called negotiation and happens in every industry.
There’s no contract yet and each side can walk away.

 

[Sarg]

Yes it is not unusual & common with European hunters, the Spanish almost get into fist fight over it !

Hear lots of yelling & shouting from the office after some hunts.

This is with the Outfitter, don’t forget a PH has nothing to do with the billing other than saying you hit it & there was blood (usually after talking it over with Trackers/Game Scouts) or giving you a price he got from the Outfitter or even some times Concession/land owner !

A straight PH isn’t allowed to book hunts he must go through an Outfitter who is normally a PH also .

 

[uplander01]

The cost of Africa is the cost of Africa, daily rate, trophy fees, etc. If you can't afford it then frickin' stay home. There are a lot of assholes in the world, some of them have a lot of money, and anyone that would rack up a 100k bill and then start breaking a PH's balls is as previously mentioned an asshole. There should be a place where PH's can add their name to a file and they should be blackballed from the sport. That said, I have been made to feel a little less than a few times by arrogant PH's that seem insulted that I even ask how much things cost.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

You think it's insulting or disrespectful when you make a counter offer?
It has nothing to do with any of it.
Like any other business they are free to accept or make another counter offer.
It's called negotiation and happens in every industry.
There’s no contract yet and each side can walk away.

Haggling sends a message: you're quote wasn't your best effort. This reminds me of the one and only time in my life I went shopping for a new vehicle. First to the Ford dealer. He has a sexy half ton with custom order two-tone paint job. The paint job was making it a slow seller. I knew that but the salesman was still trying to drive a hard bargain. The quote was too high. I said I'll look around and think about it. I found another truck at the Chevy dealership that fit the bill and that guy made me a pretty good offer for my trade in. Called the bank then and there and did the deal. The next day the Ford salesman called me at work: "Hey, I just learned you bought a truck from the Chev guys on the highway. Why did you do that without giving me a chance to deal?" I did give you a chance. "But you're supposed to make a counter-offer. That's the way this works." Oh, I see. So you were highballing me right out of the chute, expecting I would either haggle you down to somewhere close to your base profit margin or maybe you'd get lucky and I would accept your purposely inflated quote. Maybe that's the way you work but it doesn't work for me. See ya ... no wait ... you won't see me ... ever again.

If my outfitter and I expect to be on friendly terms, we won't be haggling. Frankly, I don't give a crap about car dealers or industrial product vendors. That's just business. But my safari is supposed to be pleasure. I want to get away from business. I would like it if my operator and I became friends ... genuine friends. Telling him he's made an offer that he can make lower really doesn't start things off on a very friendly level. If the offer doesn't fit my budget, I'll tell him. And I have. He's NEVER come back with "Well, what can you afford for that animal?" Never. Again, that sends the message that he didn't do his best the first time. A friend wouldn't do that. More than once he's given me quotes that were ridiculous cheap on special animals. Every time I was already at or over budget, but refusing would pretty much have insulted him and/or the property owner. So of course I said yes. "Damn you guys! Why do you do this to me? " Fortunately, I'm a widower so at the end of the day I only have to answer to my conscience if I go over budget.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

You think it's insulting or disrespectful when you make a counter offer?
It has nothing to do with any of it.
Like any other business they are free to accept or make another counter offer.
It's called negotiation and happens in every industry.
There’s no contract yet and each side can walk away.

You are correct, but being respectful or simply accepting the posted price does come into play. I doubt you go to a restaurant and ask the waiter if instead of $30 for the steak, how about $25. There is a time and a place for everything.

I've had just two billing issues from all my hunts. For the most part, the outfitters that I have hunted with have delivered what they said they would and a few actually more than they agreed to.

The first billing issue was in Namibia. My wife and daughter, along with another couple and their adult son were together on this hunt. The outfitter charged a reasonable fee for airport pickup, but charged me for a hunting day on the day of arrival. We arrived at the lodge at noon, had a nice lunch, went to the range and shot rifles. We rode around for all of 2 hours before it was dark. I didn't feel it was right to be charged a hunting day for that and all other placed typically do not charge the arrival day as a hunting day. I paid it, but haven't been back. The other issue was the bar tab. My wife and daughter don't drink and I am just a beer drinker. The other couple with us were bigger drinkers, but nothing outlandish. The outfitter himself was a big wine drinker and seemed to start by about 10am everyday. My final tab had several bottles of wine and a few beers on it. I told him nobody in my group drinks wine and the beer count was actually a bit low (this gave me some credibility that I was trying to be fair and honest). The outfitter adjusted the final bill for the bar tab, but not the hunting day.

The second billing issue came up with the largest outfitter in Wyoming, SNS Outfitters. I did an antelope hunt with them a few years earlier and shot a record book critter. Had a wonderful experience! A couple years later, I booked the same hunt for both me and my daughter. I booked it almost exactly one year ahead of the hunt date (Sept 2021, for a 2022 hunt). About 3 months after booking the hunt, SNS sent me a letter saying there's a price increase of $100 per hunt. I wrote the outfitter telling him I didn't think this was a good way to handle his business and he offered to refund my deposit. I told him that I wanted to do the hunt with my daughter and was committed to it, but I would never hunt with him again, nor recommend him. Between SNS Outfitter's dealings and the State of Wyoming treatment of non-residents, I am done with hunting in Wyoming.

 

[C.W. Richter]

No need to name the outfitter.
But, can you list the items what came up as extra, non planned costs? Which country was it?

Namibia and Zimbabwe. It was years ago to be perfectly honest I'm thinking they were padding their bills with whatever they liked. If a hunter disagreed, they would have a bit of disagreement over it and it would be dialed back to what they proposed. If the wealthy and or hungover clients didn't bother they scammed some more money off of them. Telling it how it is. Life is rough in Africa! Money doesn't fall out of trees but thank God for foreign hunters' accounts.

 

[thi9elsp]

Wow, I guess I've been fortunate to hunt with stand up outfitters (US, Zimbabwe, Mozambique and New Zealand). All prices were laid out beforehand including any 'possible animals' outside the target list.

Zimbabwe: After I got my buffalo, I was offered both hyena and tusk less. I declined the elephant (sometimes have wished I would have done it) even though they had discounted the trophy fee by 25%, they added some extra for daily rates - I was told this would go to the PH. The hyena on the other hand was straight up listed trophy fee. We tried but no luck.

Mozambique: At the end of the hunt, I calculated my balance owed based upon our agreed-to trophy fee list. I reviewed with the Outfitter/PH (One and the same) and he said if I thought it was fair, it was fine with him. I took that as mutual respect.

 

[deewayne2003]

My first African hunt was in July of this year and thankfully non of that took place, we had a good group of hunters in camp and a reputable company.

On the other hand I can say that the American generation known as "Baby Boomers" (born between 1946-1964) are notorious about this type of behavior and I've seen it first hand on many international fishing trips.

Even worse than the after the fact haggling is the deplorable behavior I've seen during the shopping/booking process at the outdoors shows; I have several friends in that generation where I simply stopped attending shows with them because of the shameless haggling and price shopping.

I watched one friends father haggle for nearly an hour with an outfitter for a mule deer hunt that started at $20K and he haggled his way down to $10K; so the entire ride home I listened to the two men going on this hunt brag about how good of a deal they got.

Then the hunt came and neither one shot a mule deer and they ended up rebooking with the same outfitter at the same price for the following year......and once again struck out and couldn't understand why they didn't get anything.

I asked them if they really expected to get good results after haggling with the outfitter so shamelessly and of course the outfitter allowed them to rebook at the same price; after all he got his original price out of them and neither of them got a mule deer after two hunts.

However the look on their faces when I pointed out how the operator got his original price out of them over two years with nothing but a camping trip provided was PRICELESS!

 

[Andrew62]

Haggling after the fact is like realizing you married the wrong person and you ask the baker to give you your money back for the wedding cake!