The Big Bore Dilemma

[Flewis]

375 is a medium bore, the 40's are large medium bores.....

375 H&H is the true all rounder legal and perfect for leopard and lion and well capable to deal with buff and the rest through to elephant and all the plains game in between.....not the caliber for the guide or PH to deal with follow ups....

So cats 375 H&H
Buffalo 404 or 416 ideal
Elephant min 458 but 500 is king...

My choices

375 H&H
404 Jeff
500/416 NE(buff or sorting out wounded lion)
500 Jeff sorting out buff and elephant when woundedI

 

[Flewis]

Why not buckshot on leopard?

 

[IvW]

Why not buckshot on leopard?

Because it does not work reliably....I have only had good success with Brenneke slugs

 

[Flewis]

Thanks.someday tell us about your 602. I have one in 378 wby and I need to change that.

 

[rafaellinne]

I’m sure a 375 h&h will do the job, but hunting elephant or buffalo is not just about efficiency. At least for me, there is something special about hunting in Africa carrying a big double rifle. If had to shoot buffalo or elephant with a scoped 375, I would choose other game.

 

[Forrest Halley]

It is amazing how these discussions eventually devolve into assumption that Deadeye Dicks use a .375 vs big bore double rifle hunters that can't hit the right side of the barn and have to depend on PHs to clean up the mess.

Pretty much....or it's the below

Absolutely !

For some, these limits exist already with a rifle caliber 375 H&H Magnum, for others it only starts with a DR caliber 600 Nitro Express.

To be read: "My Schwartz is bigger than your Schwartz!"
We really need a baseline qualification here like can shoot six accurate shots in a six inch circle at 50 yards without a recoil shield, kick stops, sticks, rests, or pause except to reload the rifle. Otherwise some folks seem to get confused with their stories and it's a bruising boomer one week and a pussy cat the next.

 

[Tanks]

Wll, I already know my limit, the .500 NE in doubles. Not because of recoil per se, but weight. Even a .577 is way too heavy to schlepp for 10+ miles in the jess each and every day. The days of gun bearers are gone for the most part.

 

[steve white]

Why not buckshot on leopard?

One of the man-eater threads details the results of a shot into the face of a Royal Bengal tiger at point blank range inside a tunnel. After it was later killed by a rifle, autopsy revealed that all the pellets (AlphaMax LG?) were flattened and found in the face musculature of the Tiger--none at all made it through to the brain...

 

[Flewis]

One of the man-eater threads details the results of a shot into the face of a Royal Bengal tiger at point blank range inside a tunnel. After it was later killed by a rifle, autopsy revealed that all the pellets (AlphaMax LG?) were flattened and found in the face musculature of the Tiger--none at all made it through to the brain...

I read that, I‘be read others who used it on leopard but I trust Ivw’s word.

 

[SStomcat]

Because it does not work reliably....I have only had good success with Brenneke slugs

I've read in Jim Corbett's book where he mentions of using slugs against some cattle picking Leopards

 

[crs]

At last count, a hunter from Dallas had taken 12 leopard . He began with a scoped big bore, tried a shot gun, but settled on a lever action 45-70 with custom loaded ammo. No cat ever reached him.

 

[Forrest Halley]

At last count, a hunter from Dallas had taken 12 leopard . He began with a scoped big bore, tried a shot gun, but settled on a lever action 45-70 with custom loaded ammo. No cat ever reached him.

Not a lever action, but pretty interesting use of one your classic cartridges...Extended Long Range .45-120...bolt action rifle

 

[BeeMaa]

I've always been enamored with the possibility of owning a double rifle, specifically a Krieghoff or Blaser in 500/416NE. I believe it would be a perfect combination of performance and shootability for a traveling hunter. The only real down side I see is the price of ammo or having to reload.

As far as ballistics go, it's my understanding that the 500/416NE was made to replicate the performance of 416RIGBY. With the exception that the NE would have the advantage of a rim for proper use in a double rifle.

My question is of recoil impulse. How does the 500/416NE feel to those that have shot it vs the 416RIGBY or any other cartridge for that matter? From what I hear it's akin to a 470NE, but what the hell do I know?

 

[Red Leg]

At last count, a hunter from Dallas had taken 12 leopard . He began with a scoped big bore, tried a shot gun, but settled on a lever action 45-70 with custom loaded ammo. No cat ever reached him.

What? He has faced 12 leopard charges? To put it politely, I find that somewhat difficult to believe. I think Nick Nolte has stopped four in a lifetime specializing in guiding leopard hunters. And I further don't believe any PH in Africa would allow a client to hunt a leopard with a shotgun as his primary firearm. And a 45/70 as a primary rifle for leopard? If it was accurate, it would work with the right optics (usually more important with a leopard than the rifle), and it would work in a follow-up with open sights no matter what the ammo was. But an odd choice for an experienced leopard hunter to use as his primary.

Perhaps you can provide some context.

 

[Red Leg]

I've always been enamored with the possibility of owning a double rifle, specifically a Krieghoff or Blaser in 500/416NE. I believe it would be a perfect combination of performance and shootability for a traveling hunter. The only real down side I see is the price of ammo or having to reload.

As far as ballistics go, it's my understanding that the 500/416NE was made to replicate the performance of 416RIGBY. With the exception that the NE would have the advantage of a rim for proper use in a double rifle.

My question is of recoil impulse. How does the 500/416NE feel to those that have shot it vs the 416RIGBY or any other cartridge for that matter? From what I hear it's akin to a 470NE, but what the hell do I know?

My 500/416 is in a Blaser S2. My .470 is a English styled boxlock. The S2 is not an issue at all. It is probably a half pound heavier than my .404 (bolt action) and recoil perception is less. The .404 is also an easy rifle to shoot. Neither has what I term fast recoil. The .470, on the other hand, is about the same weight as the .404 and kicks like a pissed off hooker on Bourbon Street. Four practice rounds is about what I care to manage.

 

[BeeMaa]

My 500/416 is in a Blaser S2. My .470 is a English styled boxlock. The S2 is not an issue at all. It is probably a half pound heavier than my .404 (bolt action) and recoil perception is less. The .404 is also an easy rifle to shoot. Neither has what I term fast recoil. The .470, on the other hand, is about the same weight as the .404 and kicks like a pissed off hooker on Bourbon Street. Four practice rounds is about what I care to manage.

Appreciate the feedback. What's the approximate weight of your S2?

 

[AZDAVE]

@BeeMaa I have a Krieghoff in 500/416 and my 416 Rigby is a CZ. I find them comparable recoil and ballistic wise. Get a little more muzzle lift in the CZ due to the barrel being lighter than the doubles. It is more of a straight back recoil impulse in the double. My hunting load is 400 gr aframes and 400gr CEB solids that have the same POI.

@Red Leg Thank you for the laugh, almost had my coffee back up through my nose. "The .470, on the other hand, is about the same weight as the .404 and kicks like a pissed off hooker on Bourbon Street."

 

[Doug Hamilton]

At last count, a hunter from Dallas had taken 12 leopard . He began with a scoped big bore, tried a shot gun, but settled on a lever action 45-70 with custom loaded ammo. No cat ever reached him.

I have not taken a leopard myself, but I know people who have. My PH and good friend has killed or been involved with taking dozens, if not a hundred or more. The bottom line is this: a leopard is no bigger or tougher than a whitetail deer. Basically very similar to a mountain lion. Of course a .45-70 will kill one dead, as will a .30-06 or similar. Are they dangerous game? Oh yes, but not in the same category as the others in the the Big Five camp or hippos. If you shoot them badly with anything you have a really bad situation, but unlike the others a fast 7mm or larger is ethical and legal at least in Zimbabwe and pretty much everywhere else in Africa as far as I can tell. A big bore stopping rifle is just not called for to hunt leopard. Following up on a bad first shot seems to have different professionals having different opinions.

 

[norfolk shooter]

My 500/416 is in a Blaser S2. My .470 is a English styled boxlock. The S2 is not an issue at all. It is probably a half pound heavier than my .404 (bolt action) and recoil perception is less. The .404 is also an easy rifle to shoot. Neither has what I term fast recoil. The .470, on the other hand, is about the same weight as the .404 and kicks like a pissed off hooker on Bourbon Street. Four practice rounds is about what I care to manage.

Now I know where all the hookers hang out

 

[TOBY458]

If my 2023 Zim hunt comes to fruition, I'll be carrying my R8 in 458 Win Mag, along with my 375 H&H barrel. I'll be using 450gr CEB solids for Elephant, and 450gr TSX for Buffalo. Not that my 375 didn't do an excellent job last year, on the same animals, I just want to hunt with a 458. The 375 will be there in reserve, and once the two large animals have been taken, it will be used for any PG that may be hunted. Win win.