The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread

[Doug Hamilton]

The .458 WinMag in a Winchester M70 was speed champ for four shots at the first annual Western Ky DR&BB Shoot, 2024.

There is plenty of taper for good feeding in the .458 WinMag.
Ha-ha-ha, the .458 Lott tapers same amount in a greater length cartridge case so it has less taper per inch of length, ha-ha-ha.

FN solids: My Browning Safari balks with second cartridge in the stack of three in the magazine if COL
is over 3.3", but at COL of 3.275" or shorter, no problem. Slick.
That is fortunate for the 500-gr TBSS at 3.275" COL is the standard recommended by Federal, for that bullet in the .458 WinMag which easily does 2200 fps MV from a 24" barrel,
using load data from Federal, for SAAMI ammo.

The CEB Safari Solids have FN meplats with radiused edge and cone angle of nose optimized for feeding and penetration.

 

[Slyfox72114]

Slyfox72114,
Be sure and get it marked with chamber designation.
Of course you should get dies, brass and bullets to make proper ammunition.
The 450 Ackley Magnum dies have been offered as catalog items in the "custom" class in the past, IIRC, they might cost more than the more common stuff, but might be waiting on the shelf somewhere for you, hopefully not something you have to wait for to be custom made.
I got my more obscure 450 Barnes Supreme dies from RCBS.
Try them if they are still in business, or Redding or CH4D.
Brass may be made from blank basic cylindrical.
Peterson sells it as "Wildcat Tubes" and it is of highest quality.
Just run it into the FL sizing die (well lubed) and out pops a 450 Ackley Magnum.
Quality Cartridge (Peter Cardona proprietor) used to have properly headstamped 450 AM brass.

Why did your bolt face look too big in your photo ?
Is the bolt face correct ?
Is the bolt correct ?
Is the headspace correct ?

There is no such thing as a good LOTT,
and you sure as heck do not want to fire one in your rifle until it is checked for proper headspace.

Rifle crank
I’ll do some more checking.
I missed your other post ,but yes I realized I wasn’t measuring to the end of the cartridge.
I have all the players on watch for ammo/reloading dies.I should be getting emails when everything comes in stock. I did order the quality cartridge brass which is out of stock also but it’ll be head stamped right so I’d like to find a laser engraver to make the barrel match and look right.
The old gun deserves a good proper etching.
I also bought a Hornady reloader from an auction last week.So I’m a step closer.

The boltspace is still questionable.
The headspace seems right just adding the correct measurements.
Checking for a local gunsmith here in central Arkansas area. Thanks again!

 

[M70375!]

Seeing as both the 500 Jeffery and 505 Gibbs cartridges both have dedicated threads, I thought I’d give Africas #1 underdog the same love.

We all know the history of the 458 WinMag and the teething issues it experienced in the early years. We also know those issues have been resolved with modern powders and bullets.

Modern factory ammo will produce 2,100-2,140 fps for 500 grain bullets out of a 24” barrel and reloading will easily let you surpass 2,150 fps.

Considering the vaunted 450NE produced these velocities (sometimes less in reality) with a 480gr bullet which proved more than adequate on everything up to and including elephant, the 458 WM is more of the same with a higher S.D of .341.

5,100+ft-lbs of energy out of the lowest recoiling of the 0.458 DG cartridges at sub 65 ft-lbs out of a 10 lbs rifle, why would you ever want or need more with the additional recoil penalty?

Due to the cartridges compact OAL it can be used in a standard length action, not requiring a bulkier or more expensive magnum length action.

The cartridge can be reloaded with an extremely versatile range of projectiles ranging between 250-550gr making it suitable for everything from white tail and hogs up to bull elephant.

All in a relatively light and affordable package with readily available and affordable ammo (by DG standards).

What’s not to love? It’s like hitting the easy button.

Thanks for your thoughts, I am thinking about getting one for the fun of it. It's model 70 super grade push feed like new for $700

 

[Riflecrank]

Thanks for your thoughts, I am thinking about getting one for the fun of it. It's model 70 super grade push feed like new for $700

I could not pass that up.
A few of the famous who used them:
Finn Aagaard
Harry Selby
Joe Coogan

And let us not forget the 1971 Dirty Harry movie where Harry made a 22"-barreled M70 pushfeed .458 WinMag into a movie star.

 

[Riflecrank]

Here is my latest .458 WinMag:

Whatever MV you can do with a 24" barrel, this one is less than 50 fps slower.
So +2150 fps MV with a 500-grain TBSS solid at 3.275" COL is very easy.
Use the Federal provided load data with Alliant Power Pro VARMINT propellant.
And +2500 fps MV with a 404-gr "Stone Hammer" is also very easy, but you need to load it to 3.38" COL in Norma brass, or 3.48" COL in other brass makes.

The Hornady 500-gr DGS factory load having MV of 2140 fps in a 24" barrel,
produced 2094 fps MV from this 21" barrel just yesterday.
Garmin XERO at 62*F, 10-shot average.
That was a 7-year-old factory load. Aged well.

 

[Riflecrank]

"Beware the man with a .458 WinMag. He is more deadly than anybody with a bigger bore."

 

[Northern Shooter]

Here is my latest .458 WinMag:

View attachment 647023

View attachment 647024

View attachment 647025View attachment 647027

Whatever MV you can do with a 24" barrel, this one is less than 50 fps slower.
So +2150 fps MV with a 500-grain TBSS solid at 3.275" COL is very easy.
Use the Federal provided load data with Alliant Power Pro VARMINT propellant.
And +2500 fps MV with a 404-gr "Stone Hammer" is also very easy, but you need to load it to 3.38" COL in Norma brass, or 3.48" COL in other brass makes.

The Hornady 500-gr DGS factory load having MV of 2140 fps in a 24" barrel,
produced 2094 fps MV from this 21" barrel just yesterday.
Garmin XERO at 62*F, 10-shot average.
That was a 7-year-old factory load. Aged well.

View attachment 647043

That's an awesome looking stock.

 

[Riflecrank]

It is nice that Bell & Carlson make a "Medalist" style of stock for the
Ruger M77 MK II/Hawkeye.
Full bedding block and that stock pictured is about 1#15oz on mine,
Advertised at 2.0 pounds.

 

[hoytcanon]

Taking the Ruger .458 Win Mag Carbine for deer next week. I developed a reduced load for deer and bears with the Nosler 300 Ballistic Tip, using 60.0 grains of H4198 and topped to the base of the bullet with Puff-Lon filler. Zeroed the load at 100 yards dead on, 1/2" groups, then tried a group at 200 just to see what the drop was like... was shocked to see a 1" group only 5" LOW... this is a pretty flat load for the.old girl. My Leupold VX-R 2-7X33 has the Circle Ballistic reticle, the bottom of the circle is bang on at 200 yards as it covers 10 inches at full power. Also at full power the first stadia line is bang on at 250. Did not have a chance to push it further, but that is now on the agenda for S&G.

 

[Riflecrank]

hoytcanon,
Good shooting.
You are wise to use such a light load with the soft Nosler bullet.
That should be an excellent deer load.
I found that the even softer Sierra 300-grainer JHP "ProHunter" vaporizes at muzzle exit with MV 2800 fps.
We use up to 78 grains of H4198 with the 300-gr TSX routinely in the mighty .458 WM+.
Much tougher bullet can take the speed and shoots a little flatter.
Hornady 250-gr GMX and Hammer 404-gr are my favorites for varmints and deer, and the latter will do cape buffalo too.

I am catching up on my latest build, going the peep sight route for aging eyes:

Plenty of front sight height for filing down.

 

[Northern Shooter]

hoytcanon,
Good shooting.
You are wise to use such a light load with the soft Nosler bullet.
That should be an excellent deer load.
I found that the even softer Sierra 300-grainer JHP "ProHunter" vaporizes at muzzle exit with MV 2800 fps.
We use up to 78 grains of H4198 with the 300-gr TSX routinely in the mighty .458 WM+.
Much tougher bullet can take the speed and shoots a little flatter.
Hornady 250-gr GMX and Hammer 404-gr are my favorites for varmints and deer, and the latter will do cape buffalo too.

I am catching up on my latest build, going the peep sight route for aging eyes:

View attachment 647519

View attachment 647521

View attachment 647522

View attachment 647523

Plenty of front sight height for filing down.

Have you experimented with many heavies in the 458 WM+? Curious what kind of velocities with 550gr is possible.

 

[Hyde Hunter]

Have you experimented with many heavies in the 458 WM+? Curious what kind of velocities with 550gr is possible.

why? with all the mono bullets now you have no need for anything over 450 grains, 404 Hammers or 420 CEB Raptors will take any game you want to hunt.

 

[hoytcanon]

why? with all the mono bullets now you have no need for anything over 450 grains, 404 Hammers or 420 CEB Raptors will take any game you want to hunt.

I still like the 500 DGX for bears and moose... extremely effective and virtually no meat damage... also, should you need to STOP one, they do that in spades.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

Have you experimented with many heavies in the 458 WM+? Curious what kind of velocities with 550gr is possible.

I easily get around 2200 fps ( plus or minus 10fps) with 560 gn pills
Gumpy

 

[Riflecrank]

Ditto Hyde Hunter.
If you want to play around with 550-gr or 600-gr bullets just for kicks,
those are the longer bullets that allow you to load long with plenty of bullet still in the case.
Easily beat the .458 Lott for velocity and recoil at same or longer COL and same pressure.

 

[Riflecrank]

Or less pressure and higher velocity with .458 WM+ than with SAAMI .458 Lott using 550-600-gr bullets, or even the 750-gr Ranger Rick hardcast GC bullet.

 

[hoytcanon]

Taking the Ruger .458 Win Mag Carbine for deer next week. I developed a reduced load for deer and bears with the Nosler 300 Ballistic Tip, using 60.0 grains of H4198 and topped to the base of the bullet with Puff-Lon filler. Zeroed the load at 100 yards dead on, 1/2" groups, then tried a group at 200 just to see what the drop was like... was shocked to see a 1" group only 5" LOW... this is a pretty flat load for the.old girl. My Leupold VX-R 2-7X33 has the Circle Ballistic reticle, the bottom of the circle is bang on at 200 yards as it covers 10 inches at full power. Also at full power the first stadia line is bang on at 250. Did not have a chance to push it further, but that is now on the agenda for S&G.
View attachment 647220View attachment 647221View attachment 647222

NOTE!!! (For the community)

Do NOT use this load for hunting!

I shot a doe yesterday with it and the bullet failed in spectacular fashion. It hit a rib just behind the should in the ideal location, but the bullet literally exploded on the rib, the hole going in was 3" in diameter but the fragments went through heart, lungs, liver, paunch and also forward in the shoulder. It was a disastrous mess, the bullet did not exit and I recovered the jacket and a flat button of lead from under the hide on the offside, I will weigh it when I get home, but it is surely not more that 60-70 grains, down from 300.. It is an extremely accurate load, but at the speeds it is travelling this particular bullet (all-be-it, designed for the .450 BM) does not hold together. Fortunately I brought a backup rifle for the next deer. Back to the drawing board for a light load. I am going back to one slightly stronger than my .450 Marlin load and using the Hornady 350 RN. In the neighborhood of 54 grains H4198 with filler to the base. If that struggles, I will fall back on H4895 reduced loads... I just want a pleasant but potent deer/bear load for this .458 WM Carbine.

 

[Axle2010]

Hoytcanon did you chrono that load? What was the velocity?

 

[hoytcanon]

Hoytcanon did you chrono that load? What was the velocity?

I didn't, but it only dropped 5" @ 200 with a 100 yard zero... I will chrono it when I get a chance.

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I’ve used the 325 gn ftx as a culling round on soft skin animals, mentioned elsewhere on here, very effective, but messy, not the projectile to use if you want to retain meat, 300 gn Sierra or Speer hollow point projectiles work well for general work, my pick of the lighter projectiles is the woodleigh 405 gn PP , pushed at modest speeds
Gumpy