The “458 Winchester Magnum, all the cartridge you’ll ever need” thread

[Riflecrank]

Oh yeah, a Ruger Hawkeye makes a really nice 400 Whelen, for whenever the
.458 WinMag is just too much of a good thing.

 

[Piet-Vis]

I am currently building a Win Mag following earlier ballistic advice from @Riflecrank and @michael458. I will share photos when I'm done.

I am really looking forward to having rifle that can take 4x rounds, are light enough to carry around all day in October heat and had very manageable recoil. Lower recoil and more manageable rifle should also translate in faster, more accurate backup shots.

Building a Win Mag has one additional benefit. It leaves space in my safe for a 500 Jeffrey.

I don't really need a 500 Jeff if I have the Win Mag. But my wife does not need to know that, and scheming up a new rifle build is certainly one of the most enjoyable things that I have done recently.

 

[Riflecrank]

Piet-Vis,
You are a wise man.
Here is what I said to one person recently who scoffed at the .458 WinMag:

"Bless your heart.
You either have a case of Bore Envy Syndrome (BES), which is akin to an inferiority complex,
or Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) if not low IQ before you even pulled a trigger.

A good psychiatrist can help you with BES, but those are hard to find, as most shrinks are crazier than their patients.
They do prescribe drugs, and you might get lucky and get some help from the right medicine, if the side-effects don't make you worse.
Sometimes the only real treatment for BES is a religious conversion.
Have faith in the .458 Winchester Magnum and you will overcome your delusions of grandeur.

If you have CTE it will only be confirmed by autopsy of your brain to include microscopic studies.
But the treatment is just the good, clean living and a good social support system, like we all should strive for.
Will your family take you back in when it gets tough to care for yourself ?
Relying upon the .458 WinMag for elephant hunting instead of a .458 Lott or bigger bore
has been shown to slow the progression of CTE.

Low IQ: Most morons can choose to be happy, and a few idiots too.
Get a .458 WinMag and be happy."

I must confess that I own many rifles more powerful than the .458 WinMag.
Among them a .458/.416 Ruger WM-Throated, .458/.338 Lapua Magnum Unimproved, 470 Capstick, 470 Mbogo, 12.7x68mm Magnum, .505 Gibbs, .500 Jeffery, .500 Bateleur, .500 Mbogo, 20ga From Purgatory 3.5" (aka .615 NE), 12ga From Hell 3.85" (aka .730 NE).
That last one knocked my socks off with a 1400-gr conical slug at 1800 fps, and it can be loaded to higher MV, no thanks !
Do the .408 Chey-Tac, .416 WeatherbyMag, .416 Barrett and .50 BMG count ?
When you have BES they do !
Notice I did not mention my one .458 Lott, made by re-chambering a .458 WinMag,
since it is only of same level as a .458 WM+.
The SAAMI .458 Lott is less powerful than the .458 WM+.
.458 WM+ loads may be fired in any SAAMI .458 WinMag but may be unsafe in a SAAMI .458 Lott.
I have been cured of BES by my religious conversion to the .458 Winchester Magnum Faith.
When the chips are down I would want nothing other than a .458 WinMag in my hands.

Now, anything other than a .458 WinMag is just a toy for me.
I confess it took me 21 years to assemble a .500 Jeffery starting with a set of handloading dies purchased in Rapid City, SD when I was just passing through town
in a delirious state of BES.
I realized what a weird duck the .500 Jeffery was and finished it up as a joke, a conversation piece.
Like for this conversation right now. Heh-heh-heh.

Live long and prosper and don't get CTE.

 

[Riflecrank]

Forgot to mention the two .500 A-Square rifles I had built in 1999.
And the .450 Barnes Supreme I had built in 1987.
And the 460 WbyMag MK V purchased in 1984,
and another 460 WbyMag "custom" BBK-02 I had built in1993.
I converted to the .458 Winchester Magnum Faith as a true believer in 2017.
That was 33 years (1984 to 2017) before I was cured of BES.
Amen.

 

[michael458]

When you leave the "Conventional Confines" of Factory Ammunition, and Enter the Magical World of HandLoading, you can really experience a massive shift of Excellence not only with 458 Winchester, but any cartridge.

I can't even imagine having only Factory Ammunition to choose from.

You can experience the true Magic of 458 Winchester when you Handload.

 

[Flewis]

I got my first 458wm in the late 80s and have owned 6 others, still have 3. The advantage the win had over the Lott was the use of a standard action. When you load it to Lott length you lose that advantage so I guess I don’t understand why. Are you saying that as is its not good enough? I think if you need more velocity then use different bullet tech and drop bullet weight. Myself I think its fine as is.

 

[ldmay375]

I got my first 458wm in the late 80s and have owned 6 others, still have 3. The advantage the win had over the Lott was the use of a standard action. When you load it to Lott length you lose that advantage so I guess I don’t understand why. Are you saying that as is its not good enough? I think if you need more velocity then use different bullet tech and drop bullet weight. Myself I think its fine as is.

I appreciate the standard 458 Winchester hand-loaded to accommodate the standard magazine and bullet used. This, with today's powders and bullets increase its ballistic performance plenty for me.

No doubt more is available and easily accomplished in 3.6" & longer magazine lengths. I definitely consider the work with longer version all good, and educational. Different strokes for different folks. It does not lessen my like or enthusiasm for the standard magazine version. Which with hand-loading certainly is a different animal from when it was introduced. Way more versatile.

 

[Flewis]

I appreciate the standard 458 Winchester hand-loaded to accommodate the standard magazine and bullet used. This, with today's powders and bullets increase its ballistic performance plenty for me.

No doubt more is available and easily accomplished in 3.6" & longer magazine lengths. I definitely consider the work with longer version all good, and educational. Different strokes for different folks. It does not lessen my like or enthusiasm for the standard magazine version. Which with hand-loading certainly is a different animal from when it was introduced. Way more versatile.

I was not saying don’t load long if you have the mag for it. That’s what I would and can in my Lott. Can’t do that in three standard actions I have

 

[Riflecrank]

I rekindled my love affair with the .458 WinMag thinking that being able to load it to 3.6" would be more interesting,
but now I find the standard +3.4" magazine is most interesting of all.
A COL of 3.38" and a pressure as high as allowed to the red-in-the-face SAAMI .458 Lott is all I need.
So, by exceeding the SAAMI restriction on COL by 0.04" and exceeding the pressure by 2,500 psi:
Wow !
That makes for a .458 WM+ load you can use in any SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber in a standard rifle with "Short Magnum" action.
And if you want to load some COLs too long to fit in the shorter SAAMI .458 Lott chamber, have at it.
Just make sure you do not crack up your rifle stock.

 

[Riflecrank]

John Riley Buhmiller wildcatted the .378 WbyMag case to .416, .458, .470 and .510 calibers starting as soon as it was available in 1953.
He hunted Africa with a .458/378 WbyMag in 1957, before the 460 WbyMag became available in 1958.
He also wildcatted the .375 H&H case everywhich way.
Despite the abundance of his many wildcats used on safaris, he always carried a .458 WinMag as backup.

Here is the H. P. White lab data for one sample load dating to 1955:

Amazing how WRAC could screw up .458 WinMag ammo for a time, probably due to Democrats.

 

[PerH]

And it’s many years since Winchester loaded the the .458 ammo , making rifles but discarding the ammo which they developed themself .

 

[odonata]

And it’s many years since Winchester loaded the the .458 ammo , making rifles but discarding the ammo which they developed themself .

True. Winchester makes rifles in 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag & 458 Win Mag. But the ammo division does not produce any ammo bigger than 338 Lapua Magnum.

 

[CZDiesel]

And it’s many years since Winchester loaded the the .458 ammo , making rifles but discarding the ammo which they developed themself .

True. Winchester makes rifles in 375 H&H, 416 Rem Mag & 458 Win Mag. But the ammo division does not produce any ammo bigger than 338 Lapua Magnum.

Not exactly true… Olin which was Western Cartridge, then Winchester Western, and then Olin bought Winchester in 1931 and developed both the Model 70 and all of the original Winchester Magnums. In 1981 Olin sold the Winchester branding and manufacturing to USRAC along with the New Haven facility but still owned the Winchester name and trademark. When USRAC went under due to unreasonable union requests Olin once again stepped in and sold the branding rights to FN which still produces firearms under that name but Olin still owns the Winchester name and has since 1931.
Sooooo Winchester still does make the ammunition for the original Magnums but allows FN to manufacture firearms under the Winchester brand.
Sorry, I’m a Winchester geek lol

 

[odonata]

@CZDiesel, Thanks for the extra info. My statement was based simply on what was currently listed as being available on the respective websites of each division (I was curious so I checked). But it’s nice to know what’s going on behind the logos.

 

[Slyfox72114]

458 Ackley mystery solved. After the casting and several wrong measurements and several right measurements, I think without 100% this new rifle is a 450 Ackley magnum there’s only a slight shoulder on the casting.

The auction house sold it as a 458 Ackley improved, which I don’t believe exist…

Now my dilemma is to spend the money and buy all the loading dies bullets brass and load my own or just shoot a good LOTT through it?
Thanks for all the good advice I received from several gentlemen on AH!

 

[roklok]

So, you guys have got me thinking about adding a .458 to the arsenal. A question....do these straight (relatively so, I know there is taper) cases feed as well as a bottlenecked cartridge ? Will a .458 with a CEB solid with large meplat feed from most rifles as reliably as say the .375 H&H ? A .458 is feeding a .458 bullet into a .535 breech vs a smaller .375 or .416 Rem feeding into that same breech.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I do not know for a fact what the answer is, but I can say that in my two identical Mauser actions, the .458 Win feeds every bit as smoothly as the .300 Win. I cannot see any reason why it wouldn't in a CRF action. PF could be different, but I could not say as I do not own a PF rifle in a straight walled cartridge.

I'm sure one of the experts on AH will.give you a more definite answer.

 

[Riflecrank]

Slyfox72114,
Be sure and get it marked with chamber designation.
Of course you should get dies, brass and bullets to make proper ammunition.
The 450 Ackley Magnum dies have been offered as catalog items in the "custom" class in the past, IIRC, they might cost more than the more common stuff, but might be waiting on the shelf somewhere for you, hopefully not something you have to wait for to be custom made.
I got my more obscure 450 Barnes Supreme dies from RCBS.
Try them if they are still in business, or Redding or CH4D.
Brass may be made from blank basic cylindrical.
Peterson sells it as "Wildcat Tubes" and it is of highest quality.
Just run it into the FL sizing die (well lubed) and out pops a 450 Ackley Magnum.
Quality Cartridge (Peter Cardona proprietor) used to have properly headstamped 450 AM brass.

Why did your bolt face look too big in your photo ?
Is the bolt face correct ?
Is the bolt correct ?
Is the headspace correct ?

There is no such thing as a good LOTT,
and you sure as heck do not want to fire one in your rifle until it is checked for proper headspace.

 

[Riflecrank]

The .458 WinMag in a Winchester M70 was speed champ for four shots at the first annual Western Ky DR&BB Shoot, 2024.

There is plenty of taper for good feeding in the .458 WinMag.
Ha-ha-ha, the .458 Lott tapers same amount in a greater length cartridge case so it has less taper per inch of length, ha-ha-ha.

FN solids: My Browning Safari balks with second cartridge in the stack of three in the magazine if COL
is over 3.3", but at COL of 3.275" or shorter, no problem. Slick.
That is fortunate for the 500-gr TBSS at 3.275" COL is the standard recommended by Federal, for that bullet in the .458 WinMag which easily does 2200 fps MV from a 24" barrel,
using load data from Federal, for SAAMI ammo.

The CEB Safari Solids have FN meplats with radiused edge and cone angle of nose optimized for feeding and penetration.

 

[roklok]

Speaking of John Buhmiller, a .458 purported to be his is listed for sale on Gunsinternational.

Personal 458 caliber African Safari Rifle of John R. Buhmiller w/ personal Memorabilia for sale

Personal 458 caliber African Safari Rifle of John R. Buhmiller w/ personal Memorabilia for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com