thats why I dont like doubles (have one)

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

People are correct…until you experience an actual charge, mine was a lion this past year dropping at 7 yards from me everything else is just what people think they would do. I can tell you this, reloading my double without having to look down and keeping an empty loop between every two shells has been what i have spent all winter doing…i feel i can now do it in my sleep. so critical in a charge situation

Hi RB

Every other loop is what I went to a long time ago. A good friend and a PH Lou Hallimore that works with us has a device that goes on you fingers and drops two shells into your double fast. I will show you Liesls when you get here.

Lon, I can’t say with 100% confidence that I will not modify my bolt cycling even more.

When using bold actions in the past, I’ve always casually just racked them in at normal speed. never with the practice for an animal being 20 yards from me and closing.

But to your question Lon, every so often using the open palm, which I actually prefer.

when coming all the way back to the bolt stop and then transitioning to forward. Because of the scope I keep my fingers pointed straight up.
The bolt knob would occasionally slip off my palm at the bolt stop.

Without a scope the palm works much better.

The best part is I’m no longer short stroking the bolt when running it fast. I’m trying to burn it in. So at crunch time I’m ready.

AS

Just a thought for the future you might think about the mini red dots. I am a firm believer. If you were hunting with us 50 meters would probably be your max shooting distance we do little plains game hunting.

Yesterday one of our clients was so close to a ele he said he could almost touch it. He did not think about shooting. Aagghh.

 

[Rubberhead]

Rubberhead, if you had no rifle, made a few dollars a day and possibly no insurance in a country with sub standard medical, where would you be? I would do my best to be 3 meters up a tree. Thorns are better than horns, rule #1 in survival.

My comment really was intended as a humorous point. Avoiding horns, teeth and claws is just one more of the African Tracker's super human mystique that has a significant basis in reality.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Lon, was the hunter supposed to shoot and froze? Or no shot.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Where'd the Tracker go? He flat disappeared...

He's paid to be a tracker, not a human decoy. Just as well that he was out of the way. He didn't have a gun.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Scott, that is what I was doing. When trying to stay on the rifle and keep the rifle up on my shoulder and rack the bolt I was short stroking it.

Bringing the rifle down off my shoulder I’m able to rack it with more confidence.

but for some reason when staying on the rifle and leaving on my shoulder, it was easy for me to short stroke it, so that is why I’m practicing with it on my shoulder

I have tried practicing cycling my rifle on the shoulder. It is very awkward and to me it seems to increase the margin for error. Potential disadvantages outweigh any possible advantage. I have sixty years experience wingshooting and shooting skeet low gun. Getting the gun remounted and back on a moving target, whether shotgun or rifle, is now instinctive. And, of course, my guns fit me perfectly, which is very important for fast acquisition.

 

[Monski]

I tried to practice working the bolt while the rifle is still in my shoulder and cannot master it. I am slower and find it awkward also. As to short stroking a bolt, I did it once at the Libby, MT big bore shoot during a "charging" water jug competition against another shooter where each shooter shoots an outside edge jug and the first to shoot the middle jug wins. I almost always work a bolt vigorously to guard against that. Add in some adrenaline and something like that can happen. To me it was eye opening. The adrenaline from a buffalo charge would be times 10.

 

[DWB]

Gents, this discussion has now obviously gone a few different directions. But there seems to be some uncertainty about the "in the shoulder cycling".

I use the open palm technique. And here is why:

• Looks at the mechanics of your arm. Bring your open hand back to your shoulder. Now bring your closed forward facing fist back to your shoulder. Which moves further?
• A proper bolt you will be able to slam back until it stops, and with a simple wrist rotation you will be closing the bolt again with the same open hand.
• No fingers near the trigger in this operation because your hand is open
• If your rifle jams as is sometime the case, this forward momentum will push the gun out of your shoulder, and in that movement you can lower the rifle and see and sort the problem
• Why this technique? Because re-mounting is not always fast and easy
• BUT - I can also cycle out of my shoulder without hassle, because I have practiced it. (Open palm works for this too)

If my rifle jams, I know what to look for and I know how to sort it out in split seconds. And all this only comes from practice.

I made a little video showing where I shoot like this at normal speed and then slowed it down to show how the hand operation works. All of this muscle memory is developed by doing dry cycling exercises.
Just for the record: The target areas on the targets are about the size of a standard clay pigeon, often smaller. So fast misses don't count.....

Cycling using the open palm technique

 

[albravo]

I've never hunted buffalo, or anything in Africa, so forgive a dumb question-- why is there any urgency in going after a critter? In NA I am accustomed to giving time for an animal to die before going looking, particularly if it is a lung (or liver) shot. If an animal doesn't die in place I sit and wait a good while in case it just needs time to lie down and bleed out.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I've never hunted buffalo, or anything in Africa, so forgive a dumb question-- why is there any urgency in going after a critter? In NA I am accustomed to giving time for an animal to die before going looking, particularly if it is a lung (or liver) shot. If an animal doesn't die in place I sit and wait a good while in case it just needs time to lie down and bleed out.

With buffalo there is the need, though not absolutely imperative, to find and finish it before dark. No tracking one of those in the dark! If it dies during the night, an animal that size could bone sour before daylight and/or scavengers ruin the cape. I once tracked a wounded elk in snow after dark ... and almost paid the ultimate price. Had to shoot in self defense very quickly and somehow with a flashlight in one hand.

 

[Altitude sickness]

DWB, Thank you for the video and tips. I prefer to work the bolt just as you show. And with a scope less rifle I can, and do.

On the .416 I’m taking, the bolt handle isn’t the longer variety. And the .416 has a scope.

so the bolt knob must ride more shallow in the palm of my hand to not hit the scope.
Not as deep seated as you show with your finger tips riding along the top of the action.

Any tips or suggestions?

 

[DWB]

DWB, Thank you for the video and tips. I prefer to work the bolt just as you show. And with a scope less rifle I can, and do.

On the .416 I’m taking, the bolt handle isn’t the longer variety. And the .416 has a scope.

so the bolt knob must ride more shallow in the palm of my hand to not hit the scope.
Not as deep seated as you show with your finger tips riding along the top of the action.

Any tips or suggestions? View attachment 587015View attachment 587016

I prefer just having a slightly longer bolt handle installed.

However, you can also add one of those rubber bolt balls which gives more grip and technically lengthens is.

I also have my bolt handles engraved/checkered

 

[Altitude sickness]

Yes, a long straight bolt handle seems to be the ticket

My newly acquired .505 has that

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Lon, was the hunter supposed to shoot and froze? Or no shot.

Hi,

I am not sure exactly at which point you referring to. If it is the first shot then the second buff moved into the flight of the first bullet, but I am guessing the hunter was totally focused on the closest bull.

Sometimes unexpected things happen between the whispered “shoot” and the press of the trigger. This may have been a good example of “target fixation”. I am reasonably sure the tracker had the same fixation on the nearest tree.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Lon, you posted that a hunter was within touching distance of an elephant and did not shoot.

I was asking why. Did he freeze up. Did he not have a shot?

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Lon, was the hunter supposed to shoot and froze? Or no shot.

I am just looking at my cell phone. When the buff came out of the bush it looked like the PH might have been in the way. The last opportunity looked like the client may have been in the line of fire again with the buff in the middle. We including myself can critisize, but shit happens.

Myself if i was the client I would not have wanted the scope, red dot yes. That said maybe the client was more comfortable with a scope.

Yesterday we had a client close enough to a bull ele he could have touched the bull with rifle no place for a scoped .375H&H.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Lon, you posted that a hunter was within touching distance of an elephant and did not shoot.

I was asking why. Did he freeze up. Did he not have a shot?

A S

I just reread your post, the client wanted the bigger bull on the other side. I was not there, but by the sound of it I am glad no one shot. Client .375H&H inexperienced does not realize what a dangerous situation he was in. PH shooting push feed .416R. Lets see that should piss of the .375 & PF fans. I would have wanted my old .416 Rigby second choice .470 Gibbs double. A reload out of the question.

Lon

 

[hoytcanon]

A good video to reestablish the "shoot until it is down" tenet. You might have thought that bull was anchored after the first charge volley, but it gathered itself and made another charge. Shoot.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Where'd the Tracker go? He flat disappeared...

He’d finished his tracking job- everyone knew where the animal was.

At that point, his continued presence would be a liability: one more person to avoid shooting, one more potential casualty from the buffalo. Killing the buffalo was the responsibility of the people with the guns. The tracker’s responsibility was to protect himself and be ready to help the wounded once the situation was controlled.

 

[375Fox]

I've never hunted buffalo, or anything in Africa, so forgive a dumb question-- why is there any urgency in going after a critter? In NA I am accustomed to giving time for an animal to die before going looking, particularly if it is a lung (or liver) shot. If an animal doesn't die in place I sit and wait a good while in case it just needs time to lie down and bleed out.

Typically you wait 20 minutes on what you think is a good shot unless you see it go down, but buffalo are very tough. They can go several days on one lung, you’ll need to follow it up. My Dad had an interesting event happen last year. He only got one lung. The buffalo made it to the high grass. They actually tried to burn it out to avoid going in. They could hear the buffalo up and moving all day but couldn’t see it to get a shot. The PH and assistant PH went in at end of day and finished the buffalo.

 

[reinwood]

In the video, as the initial shots did not kill the buffalo, all end up into the difficulty of the PH and hunter to reload their rifle efficiently and fast enough to shoot again. The PH had difficulty as he had to reload his DR, move at the same time, looking at the buffalo, looking at the ground/bush/feet, looking at his rifle, finding the barrel holes for the cartridge, etc. The hunter had difficulty to cycle the bolt or solve a jam.

So looking at the reloading part:
I was always wondering why a number of hunters/PH were removing the rifle from the shoulder to reload. It was for me a loss of precious time to move+readjust the rifle and re sight into the target.
Recently I saw this:

which is one explanation on why it is recommended to cycle the bolt with the rifle not on the shoulder. The explanation is backed up by K. Robinson in the video.
The assumption here is that most hunters are not enough used to work with a magnum action length and thus are easily short cycling the bolt, leading to double feed and jam. By cycling the bolt off the shoulder you are more prone to cycle fully and also you can look at the rifle and see if a round is being fed appropriately.

This is nicely explained, but when your life is at stake, you don't have time to think and fall into your body memory/habit. So it ends up trying to improve the weakest elements in the chain (which are different for each of us) might be handling recoil, reloading, shooting fast & close, tendency to freeze due to stress, shooting too fast, fast acquisition of target, etc. etc.

In my case, I might think of this advocated reloading approach when shooting off stick. I know that even with training, when situation is becoming hairy, the old habit from years off hunting in Europe will pop up: this is relying on operating a bolt rifle with the palm without looking at it, on the shoulder and not loosing sight of the animal at any time. Knowing this, I try to maximize the reliability of my "system" and use a proven reliable action (mauser 98 type action) in almost all my rifles with similar safety and trigger weight.

Driven hunt is also a nice way to train for real life moving target at short range. Today there are also tools to train. Aimpoint has developed an affordable virtual reality shooting system that is amazing and simulates different scenarios of hunting wildboar, moose, bear, red stag, whitetail, etc.. You wear a Virtual reality helmet and handle a rifle stock with real trigger and a motion captor on it and you are in immersion into different hunting scenarios. Look at www.gaim.com.

If you ever watched the show wild Boar Fever, the hunters crew train themselves with this system (this is the way I discovered this training system that was presented in one of the show, I am not affiliate with Aimpoint). With this system you cannot train reloading, but you can train fast target acquisition on moving games. precise shot placement, etc.. The system will only consider a kill hit if you hit the brain, the backbone, lung or heart. It is fun also with friends and not spending all the off season time on the forum .