"Stolen Valor" - in the hunting field/industry

[fisherofmen]

No offense but I can’t think of any scenario of gut shooting a buck that travels half a mile and having a rightful claim when it runs by another hunter who puts it down.

I have to agree with this.

 

[IvW]

I get nervous reading how many times different people shoot the same buck......thank heavens where I hunt that never happens.....

 

[DieJager]

No offense but I can’t think of any scenario of gut shooting a buck that travels half a mile and having a rightful claim when it runs by another hunter who puts it down.

Well, I think there is some nuance. A gut shot deer is definitely a dead one but it takes a time. Whilst every hunter would have to obligation to put it out of his misery. As the neighbor luckily did.

A deadly shot, what a gut shot is, would make the buck from the one who delivered that shot. That is how I would see it.
It is poor character to not let a kid claim that buck and much worse to put it in a museum as your own.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Hunting opening week in West Virginia with my in-laws I was sidehilling a ridge when a nice 8 point appeared above me heading back the way I had come. I put 3 shots into his ribcage with my trusty 760 pump 30-06. At the last shot I thought I heard a simultaneous report
and he rolled down the hill to the flat I was on. As I walked up to him, an old gent appeared on the ridge where the buck had been. We exchanged greetings and I asked if he had shot. He said yes, he had killed the deer. Sure enough, when I looked at the front, there was a hole where a 12 gauge slug had nailed him. I knew the deer was dead on his feet after the first shot, I just like to shoot the wiggle out of any wounded animal. I showed him my bullet's entrance and exits and the copious blood trail back to my first shot. We had an amicable discussion and I asked how many deer he had killed. He said he was a coon hunter and this was his first. I had killed several bucks by then and, although this was my best, I let him tag it then helped him get it to the road.

This brings to mind another gold medalist kid hunter story. Opening day 1984 I got up at 4:30 for the long drive to my elk hunting mountain only to find Dad sitting on the stairs in his underwear (just after my divorce and I was temporarily living at home again). He just got the call from his sister that my uncle had finally succumbed to cancer. I said I should stay home but Dad said no, go on. I arrived at just the right time before daybreak. As I was walking down the logging road to the base of the mountain a boy appeared ahead of me. I kept my distance and then he headed up the mountain at the ridge I planned to follow. Oh well. I kept going for a couple hundred yards and then started up. My plan was to work up the canyon side and see if we could push something to each other. When I reached the bottom of the mountain it was just light enough to see a deer moving on the face about 150 yards. I scoped it and was surprised to see it was a muley doe. What's she doing down this low so early in the season? As I was watching her a bunch of big light colored critters moved just above her. A small herd of elk! Almost as soon as I spotted them they disappeared behind a jackpot. I waited but nothing appeared. Then I decided to take a shot into the spot and push them out. That would at least alert the kid that game was afoot. And it worked. I never saw the elk again but the kid fired off four shots. He was a little further up the mountain and reached the spot before me. "Here's your bull." What? He pulled me up onto an old logging skid trail and there was a fine raghorn bull stone dead, shot through the neck. "Listen, young fella. I don't think that's my elk. I couldn't even see them when I fired. Just wanted to move them out of there." He said it had to be my bull because he was only shooting at cows. Makes sense. Once the bull is down cows often can't figure out what to do. I told him to hustle to the top and he might catch the herd crossing through a saddle into the basin beyond. But don't follow them there because no way to get the meat out. As I started to dress the bull a shot rang out from the valley below ... whiz ... a bullet sailed overhead. Then another shot and another with bullets flying past. I dropped down behind the bull for cover. A fourth shot I could hear connect over on the canyon side. No more shooting. After a while the kid comes back down. He watched the herd go over the top. He helped me drag the bull down to the logging road. And here comes his dad and grandad dragging a huge whitetail buck. Apparently, the buck and a doe were just over the ridge. Dad tried three four hundred yard shots before Granddad had enough and dropped it with his 270. They were both mortified to have sent bullets overhead but no way they could know I was there. I was actually safe enough on the other side of the ridge. I had a meat saw in the truck and said they should get half. They refused. "Season is young. We will shoot our own elk." This kind of behavior was not unusual when I was growing up but it is a different world today.

 

[Hunt anything]

No offense but I can’t think of any scenario of gut shooting a buck that travels half a mile and having a rightful claim when it runs by another hunter who puts it down.

The rub was we could have gotten the deer if allowed to trail it and in Alabama the “un written law” is who ever draws first blood gets the deer.
After all we did the legal thing by contacting the land owner and asking permission to go on his property, this was way before cell phones so quite a bit of time elapsed between events.
And it was not a classic gut shot deer, it was basically gutted and barely ambulatory, don’t get me wrong I was grateful he ended his suffering but like I said it was devastating to an 8th grader.
Would you not claim an animal in Africa if your PH had to stop it from crossing a park or concession boundary or a charging buffalo that you had wounded? You would have to pay for it even if you don’t claim it.

 

[Flewis]

I agree, I have stopped wounded deer and given the deer to the hunter. I do have a problem with some who pretend to know everything but after a few posts you know they know almost nothing. We have a few of them here.

 

[steve white]

The ultimate stolen valor is when a person buys a trophy head from a poacher and puts it on the wall as if they shot it. And those stolen apex trophies wouldn't be bringing up to $30k if this wasn't happening! I truly don't know how an individual could do this and look themselves in the face in a mirror, but...

Don't get me started on writers who embellish. Murray Burnham took a famous writer hunting and observed that he wasn't much of a hunter.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The ultimate stolen valor is when a person buys a trophy head from a poacher and puts it on the wall as if they shot it. And those stolen apex trophies wouldn't be bringing up to $30k if this wasn't happening! I truly don't know how an individual could do this and look themselves in the face in a mirror, but...

Don't get me started on writers who embellish. Murray Burnham took a famous writer hunting and observed that he wasn't much of a hunter.

One of many reasons I admired Teddy Roosevelt is he was honest enough to admit he was a horrible shot. He was also far and away the most articulate president. His writing literally fills libraries. But he could be complicated.

 

[CEO]

Some of my buddies went on a black bear hunt in Canada back in the mid 2000's. This operation offered whitetail hunts as well, including some in not so large enclosures. Owner mentioned they have clients who will pick a buck out online, the outfitter kills the deer, mounts it, and ships it to the client.

I always wondered what kind of stories they made up when people asked about the hunt.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Wasn't Colonel McBragg on the Rocky & Bullwinkle Show? Gadzooks! Cartoons were primitive in those olden days. I miss Saturday mornings in front of our crappy snow filled RCA black & white TV.
More fun than a bad case of piles.

 

[Fixfire]

Stealing a kid's buck is a capital offense. Doesn't get any lower than that. Where I come from someone who did that would have had a fatal hunting accident.

WOW. I’ve heard some effed up hunting stories but that probably takes the blue ribbon.

Wow!! I agree. No offense, but what father would let this happen?!?!? He wouldn’t be my boss for long.

 

[BJH65]

The rub was we could have gotten the deer if allowed to trail it and in Alabama the “un written law” is who ever draws first blood gets the deer.
After all we did the legal thing by contacting the land owner and asking permission to go on his property, this was way before cell phones so quite a bit of time elapsed between events.
And it was not a classic gut shot deer, it was basically gutted and barely ambulatory, don’t get me wrong I was grateful he ended his suffering but like I said it was devastating to an 8th grader.
Would you not claim an animal in Africa if your PH had to stop it from crossing a park or concession boundary or a charging buffalo that you had wounded? You would have to pay for it even if you don’t claim it.

That an interesting “unwritten law” drawing first blood is rightful ownership, not sure that’s universally agreed upon everywhere. Sure, if it was me that put down your gut shot buck, I’d give it to you, but that’s more of a kind thing to do for a kid. Someone mentioned a gut shot buck is a dead buck, sure but it can live up to 12 hours in agony before it dies, if it’s recovered before meat is spoiled or eaten by predators.

To keep this as an apples to apples comparison, if I’m anywhere in North America and make a bad shot, gut shooting a deer and it runs off half a mile and another hunter kills and claims it, I wouldn’t feel that deer is mine, just my opinion. I’m sorry that traumatized you as a youngster, I’m sure it would’ve been the nice thing to do for him to give you that buck.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Guides here are not allowed to hunt with the client. The client is the one licensed to hunt.
There are plenty of Hunts where guides have been asked to shoot the Sheep (etc) because the out of shape hunter can no longer continue but "does not want to waste the money". The story is assured to stay in the woods.

As an official measurer I measured a very large Big Horn and the guy paraded it around every event in the area. Turns out it was shot inside a park. So many pictures are taken of these sheep that someone recognized the horn configuration. F&W got a warrant, got there hands on the cape and matched it to the carcass. Apparently when you poach inside a park you are rather sloppy with your hurried knife strokes. He created such a jig saw hack job that the cut line was unique. DNA put the final nail in the coffin.

Hi Marius,

Sure, as told to me, the intended rhino they wanted to hunt stormed them before the client could take a proper shot, and my grandfather then had to shoot it. He off course tells it a lot better but in short that was it. After the shot, the client, contrary to what my grandfather thought, wanted to claim the hunt. He was not at all worried that he did not shoot it and declined the offer for a new one.

This whole discussion has an interesting parallel with PH's shots to "back clients up" or worse "Echo Shots". Who's trophy is it?

 

[BRICKBURN]

That an interesting “unwritten law” drawing first blood is rightful ownership, not sure that’s universally agreed upon everywhere.

The Common Law precedent's here conclude that the first "fatal wound" gets to claim the trophy if someone is determined and wants to head to court over it. Nicks and scratches don't count.

I get the general sentiment though.

 

[R eight]

I once shot a great 10 point red stag. I took the shot in the last minutes of day light. Range was around 200 meters and I took the shot standing. He dropped on the spot.

I marked the spot where I had taken the shot with toilet paper (unused) and then proceeded to bush bash my way across the steep heavily vegetated gully that separated us. And then, about halfway there my headlamp died. Finally, I found my stag. I literally tripped over him. It was too dark to do anything, so out with more toilet paper to decorate a tree. And, then I made a bee line back to the vehicle. There I found my mate who had been waiting over an hour for me.
Plenty of rum in camp that night as I relived and retold my exploits of the hunt. Maybe I told that story more than 2 or 3 times before bed.

Next morning my mate and I were up early and out to recover my 10 pointer. I walked us straight in to the kill (Bob was impressed and I was surprised with how easy that was) .

But, that’s were things went downhill hill. Bob stood looking at the deer and started counting out loud. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. He then repeated the count and then burst out laughing. I couldn’t believe it. Yep, I had shot a very average 8. But I truly believed I had whacked a 10. A monster of a 10.

That happened around 25 years ago and that barstard of a mate of mine reminds me of that stag on a very regular basis.

So yes. I’ve been guilty.

 

[Hunt anything]

That an interesting “unwritten law” drawing first blood is rightful ownership, not sure that’s universally agreed upon everywhere. Sure, if it was me that put down your gut shot buck, I’d give it to you, but that’s more of a kind thing to do for a kid. Someone mentioned a gut shot buck is a dead buck, sure but it can live up to 12 hours in agony before it dies, if it’s recovered before meat is spoiled or eaten by predators.

To keep this as an apples to apples comparison, if I’m anywhere in North America and make a bad shot, gut shooting a deer and it runs off half a mile and another hunter kills and claims it, I wouldn’t feel that deer is mine, just my opinion. I’m sorry that traumatized you as a youngster, I’m sure it would’ve been the nice thing to do for him to give you that buck.

After around 200 whitetails it wouldn’t bother me today. I’ve actually killed a really good deer that one our workers hit in the flesh part of the neck. While that guy wondered off looking in one direction I went where I thought a wounded deer would go. After a couple of hundred yards I found the buck bedded and was able to get 2 shots in his shoulder with my 10mm pistol. I was just happy to put him down.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I once shot a great 10 point red stag. I took the shot in the last minutes of day light. Range was around 200 meters and I took the shot standing. He dropped on the spot.

I marked the spot where I had taken the shot with toilet paper (unused) and then proceeded to bush bash my way across the steep heavily vegetated gully that separated us. And then, about halfway there my headlamp died. Finally, I found my stag. I literally tripped over him. It was too dark to do anything, so out with more toilet paper to decorate a tree. And, then I made a bee line back to the vehicle. There I found my mate who had been waiting over an hour for me.
Plenty of rum in camp that night as I relived and retold my exploits of the hunt. Maybe I told that story more than 2 or 3 times before bed.

Next morning my mate and I were up early and out to recover my 10 pointer. I walked us straight in to the kill (Bob was impressed and I was surprised with how easy that was) .

But, that’s were things went downhill hill. Bob stood looking at the deer and started counting out loud. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. He then repeated the count and then burst out laughing. I couldn’t believe it. Yep, I had shot a very average 8. But I truly believed I had whacked a 10. A monster of a 10.

That happened around 25 years ago and that barstard of a mate of mine reminds me of that stag on a very regular basis.

So yes. I’ve been guilty.

Ground shrinkage happens all the time. Never shoot at a Mule Deer Buck going away from you. They fold their ears back and it makes the width of the antlers appear to be so much larger. They always shrink when you finally get up to them. Then you should hear the stories. They usually don't live it down for a season or two.

 

[Flbt]

I feel like this is almost constant in some form or another in hunting. Every hunter has met another hunter that exaggerates or lies about their success. It is so common in fishing that it is a common term "fish tales" or "Fish Stories" and hunting is no different.

Obviously there are varying degrees. But almost everyone who comments under youtube videos and social media claims they can shoot 1MOA out to at least 500-600 yards, they have all shot many record book bucks, etc etc.

I have heard stories from guides and PHs about hunters asking them to shoot an animal, or an entire safari in Africa for them, and to just not tell their buddies about it.

Wherever there is glory to be had from accomplishments, people will lie about having done it.

Never been to Africa properly never will
But with my health if I did being completely new game and dangerous ( not so much for me but to the people there also)
I believe now I would ask the ph to take a back up shot almost amediatly if he didn’t like the look or reaction to mine. Basically pre determined
Would that be wrong?
I have read articles and stories where the hunter doesn’t want help with the shot
20 years ago I might could see that
Now not being able to move around much I would want to keep everything as safe as possible
The idea of some one else getting hurt because of my mess up and limitations
I would not like that

 

[Hunt anything]

The Common Law precedent's here conclude that the first "fatal wound" gets to claim the trophy if someone is determined and wants to head to court over it. Nicks and scratches don't count.

I get the general sentiment though.

If a bullet hits a bone or breaks into the abdomen 90% will die. Paretenitus will set in on an abdominal wound and the infection will kill the animal. If a bone is hit and bone fragments will shatter through out the hit area, infection normally gangrene sets in and kills the animal.
I came home one day and saw a doe whitetail lying by the pond next to my house. I could tell something was wrong, instead of running she laid her head down and tried to hide. I went inside got a rifle came out hoping she would be gone, she was not and so I shot her. Before I ever got close to her I could smell the rot. She had been hit about 6 inches above her left rear hoof by a rifle shot. She was so infected she had just given up. I thought about trying to salvage the meat but she smelled so bad there was no use. I feel she would’ve been dead within hours.
Flesh wounds can be recovered from as long as they don’t get infected. I actually killed a 10pt once that I had hit 3 days before, a flesh wound to the neck and pure luck to run into the same buck 3 days later within 100yds of where I shot him the first time.