Sticks or no sticks?

[mdwest]

On another popular hunting forum you can read where these guys will cut their toothbrushes in half to save weight.

lol... stole that idea from Dick Marcinko's vietnam era SEAL stories I would guess.... (he talks about doing that in his book Rogue Warrior)...

We'll be working out of a tent camp for the time Im there.. so I'll just be carrying a day pack while Im elk hunting... I'll be keeping my full sized toothbrush and full sized tube of tooth paste in a duffle back in camp

 

[C.W. Richter]

lol... stole that idea from Dick Marcinko's vietnam era SEAL stories I would guess.... (he talks about doing that in his book Rogue Warrior)...

We'll be working out of a tent camp for the time Im there.. so I'll just be carrying a day pack while Im elk hunting... I'll be keeping my full sized toothbrush and full sized tube of tooth paste in a duffle back in camp

Airlines & Hotels stole the idea long ago! LOL for "weight" savings, of course. I almost swallowed one. Blast from the Past (a guy at work used to recycle Dickie Marcinko's books to me after he'd read them!) The post-war stoppings of terrorist plane hijackings of he/his team really hit home! That seemed to happen a lot in the 70s!

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Many hunters buy the (too short) benchrest model bipods (6"-12"), but I far prefer the longer (30ish") versions that can shoot from about 12" to 2.5' which work perfectly in high grass as well as sitting atop rocks or in other open areas. Many phenomenal shots made w/ 'em. It's akin to a lower-profile, quieter shooting stick with the shooter as the third-leg anchor of the "sticks." I like the Harris Ultralight for long walk mountain hunts, spot/stalk and even varmint hunting. Very easily adjusted for height and sloping ground and in some models you may even rotate the rifle to level. They weigh 2 lbs and even add to rifle accuracy vis-a-vis the extra mass. This is how we'd practice w/ our mid-bore rifles in Summertime... View attachment 627716View attachment 627717

The problem with bipod, especially the longer extension models, is they are bulky. They can seriously throw the balance of rifle out of whack. Try carrying a forward heavy rifle all day in the ready position. Very hard on neck, shoulder, and upper back. Been there! Attached bipods are also prone to snagging brush in heavy cover. I tried carrying my shorter bipod in daypack to attach as needed. Well, that is NOT a quick setup. Cost me a nice mule deer buck right around the corner. By the time I could get my sling detached, bipod out of the pack, and the bloody fiddly SOB finally attached to my rifle's sling swivel stud, the herd of deer was chased off by a coyote. I fixed that bastard's wagon the next morning. Shot on the run at fifty yards.

I think the answer is a tacticool true quick detach bipod that hooks up to pic rail. Then buy a small pic-rail adapter that attaches to sling stud. These have a stud on top for attaching sling. The tac bipod can simply be clamped onto the rail adapter with quick levers as needed. Kinda unsightly but I'm sure it would work.

The beveling bipods do NOT work. No matter how tight I crank on the knob, it will not stay locked in place. I've even used vicegrip pliers! This one also marked my stock. The vinyl pads that came on it were a joke to start with. One fell off and I replaced with thick leather. But this contraption will likely never go back on my rifle. Pretty much useless. Caldwell brand.

 

[Tra3]

The location dictates what tools are used. In Minnesota, the longest shot I can take from my deer stands in the woods is about 50-60 yards. Offhand works there. But, lots of people mess that up.
In Montana, where I grew up and hunt every year, a bipod is a necessary item. The grass is shorter and the terrain permits a 8-14” bipod. I’ve started using sticks because I like them. The quad sticks are useful for walking and glassing. You almost always have time to shoot something that is bumped up close, mule deer like to stop at 200 yards and look back. Sticks work great, but if the ground is clear a pack or bipod is better in the prone position. Why take a risk of a bad shot by shooting offhand?
When I teach/guide newer hunters, I definitely don’t let them shoot offhand. It is simply smart to take every action you can to make a better shot.

For any newer or intermediate hunters reading this, go shoot a couple hundred big game animals with proper rests. Then you can understand what your margin of error is in a field situation and make a good decision on if you want to try and shoot stuff off hand. Some people are blessed with perfection-level shooting skills, I am not one of them. So I use a rest, a bipod or sticks.

 

[BryceM]

After watching people miss the whole animal with offhand 10 yard coup de grâce shots, all sorts of things pop into my head.

Shooting sticks are a tool. There's a time and a place for each tool in the toolkit. Yes, pliers can be used as a hammer, but it ain't pretty. Better perhaps to learn all of them.

Lately I've been playing with my new Blaser quad-sticks. Pretty impressive, says I.

 

[rookhawk]

Not much more can be said about the value of sticks beyond what sage advice is written over the past three pages. A few minor comments might be worth amplifying:

1.) Sticks are not intuitive. You actually need to learn how to use them. People miss and make all sorts of noise trying to palm their forestock while on sticks, feeling your own pulse shaking the rifle. With a “real” stick, whether African improvised or an ASC set, you’re holding the sticks with the left hand, driving the stock into your shoulder so you can have a gentle shooters grip to get a proper trigger pull. That takes a bit of practice to figure out how to actually shoot off sticks well, then it’s easy.

2.) We have terrible sticks in the USA. I hated them when I used my primos aluminum/plastic ones years ago. They’d dent, stick, slide when they should lock, and swivel when they shouldn’t. Many people that curse sticks are cursing the gimmicky ones in the States having never tried a homemade wood pair, or an ASC set.

3.) You and your gun can’t be great at everything. If you have a stalking/safari rifle with a low comb, a small optic, and low rings, the gun is coming up to your eye for a snap shot. Guns stocked in this manner work wonderfully off shooting sticks where a shooter is standing erect. Conversely, I remember laying prone 300-400’ up a goma preparing an ambush shot on an Eland in the flay below. I had never shot my stalking rifle prone and it was quite a trick to actually get my face onto my safari rifle with that posture because it really wasn’t stocked for a prone shot shooting down at a 45 degree angle. The alternative to all of this is a typical high-comb montecarlo style stock as sold on virtually every modern tactical bolt rifle at Cabelas. Those high-comb models work great with high rings and big scopes from a bench, and they work fine shooting prone, but do not work very well at all for a fast shot off sticks. Bottom line, have the right tool for the job at hand.

 

[grand veneur]

I think that the discussion here is mainly about shooting with the rifle on a bench, among others things sticks.

At a certain distance, every shooter should place his rifle on something stable, but what is used should not matter. In Africa, sticks in the form of a tripod have become a symbol. There is hardly a picture where a hunting group can be seen in the bush without someone carrying something like that. Ultimately, it should be up to each individual to decide with what he or she shoots best.

I really don't like shooting from sticks and therefore always try to find another way to get a good shot placement. I took all of the very long shots, especially in the mountains, while lying down with the rifle on my backpack. In Africa I also shot some game offhand at short distances, but trees and branches, or even termite mounds were often used as shooting rests, rather than sticks. My binoculars already served as a support for shooting lying down from such a termite mound.

I find sticks too unstable.

 

[JP50]

The other advantage to using sticks- recent trip to SA.My PH used the inverted sticks to make us look like an Oryx on the open hill to get close to the Mountain Zebra . Frontal shot at 365 yds on open hill would not of been possible without the use of sticks- Zebra was dead before it hit the ground.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The other advantage to using sticks- recent trip to SA.My PH used the inverted sticks to make us look like an Oryx on the open hill to get close to the Mountain Zebra . Frontal shot at 365 yds on open hill would not of been possible without the use of sticks- Zebra was dead before it hit the ground.

Interesting. I noticed zebra and gemsbuck like to hang together. Zebra are nervous buggers and everything within a mile radius will know it when they're spooked.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The problem with bipod, especially the longer extension models, is they are bulky. They can seriously throw the balance of rifle out of whack. Try carrying a forward heavy rifle all day in the ready position. Very hard on neck, shoulder, and upper back. Been there! Attached bipods are also prone to snagging brush in heavy cover. I tried carrying my shorter bipod in daypack to attach as needed. Well, that is NOT a quick setup. Cost me a nice mule deer buck right around the corner. By the time I could get my sling detached, bipod out of the pack, and the bloody fiddly SOB finally attached to my rifle's sling swivel stud, the herd of deer was chased off by a coyote. I fixed that bastard's wagon the next morning. Shot on the run at fifty yards.
View attachment 627796
I think the answer is a tacticool true quick detach bipod that hooks up to pic rail. Then buy a small pic-rail adapter that attaches to sling stud. These have a stud on top for attaching sling. The tac bipod can simply be clamped onto the rail adapter with quick levers as needed. Kinda unsightly but I'm sure it would work.

The beveling bipods do NOT work. No matter how tight I crank on the knob, it will not stay locked in place. I've even used vicegrip pliers! This one also marked my stock. The vinyl pads that came on it were a joke to start with. One fell off and I replaced with thick leather. But this contraption will likely never go back on my rifle. Pretty much useless. Caldwell brand.
View attachment 627798

This item by Vanguard seems to be what I've been looking for.

It's a quick detach bipod that extends to 28" for either prone or sitting position. The pic-rail adapter connects to sling swivel stud and has another stud on back end so sling does not need to be removed and won't get tangled up in bipod when attached. At 13" collapsed it would fit in my daypack. I don't think it would be terribly applicable in Africa where I'm hunting with a crew that can carry sticks (maybe for springbuck), but should work very nicely solo stalkng the plains of the American West. Sometimes I can spot game in time to snap on a bipod and finish the stalk. However, I prefer to work up and down the "breaks" in the bottoms, checking each side draw carefully. Works best on windy days (and it's always windy!). This buck last fall was one of the longest shots (maybe THE longest) at only 220 yards from sitting position. He saw me when I saw him so attaching a bipod would not have been possible.

Shooting standing on the sticks is fine but not nearly as stable as sitting, in my opinion. Lower to the ground means less angle for potential movement ("weaving"), especially if the wind is blowing. I suppose if one practiced enough, it might be possible to get into a stable sitting position fairly quickly ... if in good physical condition. I don't practice the sitting position (because I really don't like it). Nevertheless, I am surprised how quickly I got on my butt and set up for this buck last fall. It had to be a quick shot! I'm old and not as agile as I used to be. Fortunately, not much of a spare tire hanging in front. A big gut would definitely be an impediment.