South Africa's ANC to change constitution to allow seizing land

[Desert Dog]

It is not necessarily an all-out land grab I am worried about (probably less than 25% chance of that happening soon).

What does concern me is the blatant disregard for SA markets and the SA economy by the last 2 administrations. Every election conducted in RSA results in an increasingly insane and hostile government. I fear that the Rand will collapse, hyperinflation will ensue, and massive civil unrest will envelope SA long before a large-scale land grab will.

This is NOT about payback for apartheid; the black population of SA more than doubled since 1993, meaning that most black South Africans were born after apartheid or immigrated to SA after apartheid ended. RSA has been a powder keg of sometimes violent tension for many years; remember that black South Africans are still beating/killing/protesting against black immigrants and refugees from other countries. A growing portion of the current black population in SA is very xenophobic, racist, entitled, and full of blind rage. This mentality seems to be getting worse, not better.

Either way, RSA does not have a bright future.

 

[boldo 42]

I've been working in SA for 12months now , and all still seems the same to me. Just the usual chaos in the papers. I'm in limpopo.

 

[Therack]

There’s a lot of speculation and concern over booking future hunts, deposits and trip interruption. Could @Global Rescue comment on trip insurance, emergency rescue coverage in the event of a trip cancellation or interruption due to the political climate in RSA?

 

[Fred Gunner]

‘I have the right to defend my property by force. And I will’: EXCLUSIVE – White farmer who is set to become the first to have his £10m game reserve seized says South Africa’s land grab policy is THEFT
Johan Steenkamp, 67, says his £10million game reserve in South African is being seized by the government
He claims he bought uninhabited and unused land 20 years ago, but a tribe claims land is theirs
He has been fighting to stop government buying it for 'below value' and has now been told to give it up
Prime Minister Cyril Ramaphosa is trying to accelerate land expropriation in South Africa
New policy will see farmland owned by white farmers seized by the government without payment
Steenkamp calls it 'theft' and says government just wants to mine for coal and won't give it to poor blacks

The owner of the first South African farm lined up to have his land seized without payment or fair compensation blasted the government today saying: 'Whichever way they dress it up it is theft'.

Johan Steenkamp who co-owns a £10million hunting farm in Limpopo province, has been ordered to hand over his land, following a ten-year battle to stop the government buying it for a tenth of its value.

Mr Steenkamp says Prime Minister Cyril Ramaphosa's plans of redistribution of white-owned land to South Africa's black poor is just a cover so that the government can get their hands on valuable coal deposits found under his farm land.

The 67-year-old farmer said he is ready to defend his property by force if the government tries to take his land, saying; 'If it comes to a fight so be it, I am not going to leave the country and I am not going to leave my farm.'

Mr Steenkamp, 67, and wife Sanet, 53, bought 3,300 hectares of vacant land 21 years ago in Limpopo province, with plans to turn it into a thriving game reserve.

Along with business-partner Arnold Cloete they set up the Akkerland Boerdry and set out plots for the impressive construction of the 300 luxury buildings set on two thriving game farms.

They planned to give 300 jobs to local people but their plans were spiked after a tribe put in an application claiming the land belonged to them and Coal for Africa also tried to buy them.

Since then the Akkerland Boerdry have been engulfed in a legal battle to keep and develop their land but in March this year they were sent an unprecedented legal letter by the state.

It said their land was to be audited and valued and that the keys to the estate would have to be handed over within seven days and they had to accept any valuation given to them.

Mr Steenkamp says the Akkerland Boerdery is valued at 200 million rand (£10.7m) but they were only offered 20 million rant (£1.07m) – a tenth of what he claims is the true value.

However South African law gives owners the right to dispute the difference and reach a fair settlement in court but in a mortifying new twist for farmers this process was ignored.

The notice to quit was handed over late on a Thursday before a weekend with a public holiday on the Friday and a Monday which the farmer claims was a deliberate ploy.

 

[vancewalker007]

So I just read this latest article in the Daily Mail on a White Game Rancher that owns lands that will be the first to be taken with no payment by the RSA Government.

For those who live in the RSA my question is, is this a real true article. Is Johan Steenkamp a real person and are they taking his game farm?

"‘I have the right to defend my property by force. And I will’: EXCLUSIVE – White farmer who is set to become the first to have his £10m game reserve seized says South Africa’s land grab policy is THEFT"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-reserve-seized-South-Africa-calls-theft.html

 

[Hogpatrol]

The Daily Mail is a tabloid known for inflammatory articles and right wing leanings.

 

[Rickmt]

I would like to hear opinions from some South Africans On the current state of the country.

 

[Gemsbok Gangsta]

I’m going hunting !!!

 

[Hogpatrol]

I’m going hunting !!!

You're gonna die!!!!!

 

[Pheroze]

I cannot profess to know what is really going on. But, I do not think we need to read-in anything about hunting there. From my limited experience I am confident that my PH would give me the straight goods. A good PH takes their client's safety and comfort very seriously. A straight forward chat with your PH will probably set your mind at ease.

 

[Supercat]

I would definitely NOT cancel a hunt to RSA because of this but I am very worried for the long term future of RSA.

I heard the President speak today and it's pretty scary. He's denouncing Trump's tweet, talking violence, and even war-speak. He is also denying the fact that white farmers are being killed and instead went on a bizarre rant about black people are being killed in the USA

It isn't looking good...

 

[Fred Gunner]

I would like to hear opinions from some South Africans On the current state of the country.

Here's one South African's opinion:

Radical South African politician Julius Malema confirmed President Donald Trump’s concerns Thursday, declaring defiantly that the point of the country’s proposed new “expropriation without compensation” policy would be to take land from white farmers.

“Through land expropriation, we are forcing white people to share the land which was gained through a crime against the humanity of black and African people,” Malema said in a press conference, referring to the racist land policies of colonialism and apartheid.

“We are not the generation that is going to kneel at the statue of Western imperialism and accept to live in the indignity of black landlessnes.”

 

[Hogpatrol]

Here's one South African's opinion:

Radical South African politician Julius Malema confirmed President Donald Trump’s concerns Thursday, declaring defiantly that the point of the country’s proposed new “expropriation without compensation” policy would be to take land from white farmers.

“Through land expropriation, we are forcing white people to share the land which was gained through a crime against the humanity of black and African people,” Malema said in a press conference, referring to the racist land policies of colonialism and apartheid.

“We are not the generation that is going to kneel at the statue of Western imperialism and accept to live in the indignity of black landlessnes.”

Uh, Mr. Malema, native, black Africans had this land for a couple hundred thousand years and didn't do anything with it. You fought and killed each other, stole from each other, made slaves of each other, sold each other and corrupted untold successive governments after the colonialists handed you power. Sorry but black African politicians haven't shown the mindset or capability of doing anything but figuring out how to make themselves rich at the expense of their so called constituents. The only reason you are upset is you haven't got your share of the South African treasury.

 

[Supercat]

Lets see what the UN does about this!!

We already know the answer to that! They are good White Christian people so they will do NOTHING!

They love their black, brown, and Muslim peoples...

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

I would like to hear opinions from some South Africans On the current state of the country.

You asked for an opinion an I'd like to give mine. As a landowner/farmer/outfitter I've given my opinion before on this subject and similar subjects and the retort from a few members is typically either

1. you're naive and have your head in the sand
2.you're only saying this because you don't want to lose potential business

Let me say straight out that all possible naivety left me within the first year of taking the land over from my father. There are no naive South African farmers. Working everyday with Africans in an African country will do that. I'll also say that the loss of future business is low down on my list of priorities. I have two young children, a family, property, assets, workers and workers families to look after. I have no intention of being the last person to leave if the doomsday you're all predicting comes to fruition.

Now for some facts. There is no change whatsover in South Africa. Everything is the same as it was before. There are no EFF thugs banging down farmhouse doors, no land grabs. Another statistical fact - farm murders are bang on the national statistic for the national murder rate. As a South African farmer you're not more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the country. Farm murders are significantly down in 2018.

This is a political masterstroke by Ramaphosa. He promises something now to appeal to the more radical only to later define the conditions under which expropriation can occur leaving the constitutional court to sort out each individual case. Our constitution already allows for expropriation without compensation but the circumstances under which it can occur aren't defined. The ANC has no actual intention of amending the constitution. They may however add to it by defining some conditions. There are existing land claims that need to be settled and it's in the best interests of us all that they get settled. I believe they will use this as a means of forcing landowners with existing land claims on their property to be more reasonable regarding the asking value of their properties. There's been a lot said of the property they're trying to get from Mr Steenkamp. His asking price of R200 million is way to high, the state's offer of R10 million a little low but much closer to the true value. The talk of the property being rich in coal is immaterial. Landowners in SA don't own mineral rights and the state is able to mine this and only compensate him for the surface area used and right of way.

Ramaphosa stated yesterday that they have no intention of nationalising farm land. He also stated that they will transfer 4000 farms in the states name to emerging black farmers and that they will need the skills of existing farmers to help them be successful. Tribal lands, making up 4 million hectares, owned by the various kings and rented by their subjects will also be looked at.

South Africa isn't Zimbabwe and Ramaphosa isn't Mugabe. I know people who have done business with him and he's highly thought of as a businessman and planner. In SA however, the president rules at the pleasure of his party, he's inherited a large number of Zuma's cronies. Zuma is under trail and there's a state capture enquiry underway that will identify the members within the ANC that were involved in state capture. Slowly but surely he'll rid the party of these cronies and once he gets more of his own people in government, we'll begin to see more of his own policies coming through.

South Africa isn't black and white. There were some injustices done in the past and there has to be some justice for those that were wronged. Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

 

[Pheroze]

You asked for an opinion an I'd like to give mine. As a landowner/farmer/outfitter I've given my opinion before on this subject and similar subjects and the retort from a few members is typically either

1. you're naive and have your head in the sand
2.you're only saying this because you don't want to lose potential business

Let me say straight out that all possible naivety left me within the first year of taking the land over from my father. There are no naive South African farmers. Working everyday with Africans in an African country will do that. I'll also say that the loss of future business is low down on my list of priorities. I have two young children, a family, property, assets, workers and workers families to look after. I have no intention of being the last person to leave if the doomsday you're all predicting comes to fruition.

Now for some facts. There is no change whatsover in South Africa. Everything is the same as it was before. There are no EFF thugs banging down farmhouse doors, no land grabs. Another statistical fact - farm murders are bang on the national statistic for the national murder rate. As a South African farmer you're not more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the country. Farm murders are significantly down in 2018.

This is a political masterstroke by Ramaphosa. He promises something now to appeal to the more radical only to later define the conditions under which expropriation can occur leaving the constitutional court to sort out each individual case. Our constitution already allows for expropriation without compensation but the circumstances under which it can occur aren't defined. The ANC has no actual intention of amending the constitution. They may however add to it by defining some conditions. There are existing land claims that need to be settled and it's in the best interests of us all that they get settled. I believe they will use this as a means of forcing landowners with existing land claims on their property to be more reasonable regarding the asking value of their properties. There's been a lot said of the property they're trying to get from Mr Steenkamp. His asking price of R200 million is way to high, the state's offer of R10 million a little low but much closer to the true value. The talk of the property being rich in coal is immaterial. Landowners in SA don't own mineral rights and the state is able to mine this and only compensate him for the surface area used and right of way.

Ramaphosa stated yesterday that they have no intention of nationalising farm land. He also stated that they will transfer 4000 farms in the states name to emerging black farmers and that they will need the skills of existing farmers to help them be successful. Tribal lands, making up 4 million hectares, owned by the various kings and rented by their subjects will also be looked at.

South Africa isn't Zimbabwe and Ramaphosa isn't Mugabe. I know people who have done business with him and he's highly thought of as a businessman and planner. In SA however, the president rules at the pleasure of his party, he's inherited a large number of Zuma's cronies. Zuma is under trail and there's a state capture enquiry underway that will identify the members within the ANC that were involved in state capture. Slowly but surely he'll rid the party of these cronies and once he gets more of his own people in government, we'll begin to see more of his own policies coming through.

South Africa isn't black and white. There were some injustices done in the past and there has to be some justice for those that were wronged. Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

 

[Supercat]

You asked for an opinion an I'd like to give mine. As a landowner/farmer/outfitter I've given my opinion before on this subject and similar subjects and the retort from a few members is typically either

1. you're naive and have your head in the sand
2.you're only saying this because you don't want to lose potential business

Let me say straight out that all possible naivety left me within the first year of taking the land over from my father. There are no naive South African farmers. Working everyday with Africans in an African country will do that. I'll also say that the loss of future business is low down on my list of priorities. I have two young children, a family, property, assets, workers and workers families to look after. I have no intention of being the last person to leave if the doomsday you're all predicting comes to fruition.

Now for some facts. There is no change whatsover in South Africa. Everything is the same as it was before. There are no EFF thugs banging down farmhouse doors, no land grabs. Another statistical fact - farm murders are bang on the national statistic for the national murder rate. As a South African farmer you're not more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the country. Farm murders are significantly down in 2018.

This is a political masterstroke by Ramaphosa. He promises something now to appeal to the more radical only to later define the conditions under which expropriation can occur leaving the constitutional court to sort out each individual case. Our constitution already allows for expropriation without compensation but the circumstances under which it can occur aren't defined. The ANC has no actual intention of amending the constitution. They may however add to it by defining some conditions. There are existing land claims that need to be settled and it's in the best interests of us all that they get settled. I believe they will use this as a means of forcing landowners with existing land claims on their property to be more reasonable regarding the asking value of their properties. There's been a lot said of the property they're trying to get from Mr Steenkamp. His asking price of R200 million is way to high, the state's offer of R10 million a little low but much closer to the true value. The talk of the property being rich in coal is immaterial. Landowners in SA don't own mineral rights and the state is able to mine this and only compensate him for the surface area used and right of way.

Ramaphosa stated yesterday that they have no intention of nationalising farm land. He also stated that they will transfer 4000 farms in the states name to emerging black farmers and that they will need the skills of existing farmers to help them be successful. Tribal lands, making up 4 million hectares, owned by the various kings and rented by their subjects will also be looked at.

South Africa isn't Zimbabwe and Ramaphosa isn't Mugabe. I know people who have done business with him and he's highly thought of as a businessman and planner. In SA however, the president rules at the pleasure of his party, he's inherited a large number of Zuma's cronies. Zuma is under trail and there's a state capture enquiry underway that will identify the members within the ANC that were involved in state capture. Slowly but surely he'll rid the party of these cronies and once he gets more of his own people in government, we'll begin to see more of his own policies coming through.

South Africa isn't black and white. There were some injustices done in the past and there has to be some justice for those that were wronged. Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

You don’t seem too worried and you live there....I hope that you’re right

 

[BRICKBURN]

............... Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

If you did not TWEET it, it can't be true!

 

[Aegis]

You asked for an opinion an I'd like to give mine. As a landowner/farmer/outfitter I've given my opinion before on this subject and similar subjects and the retort from a few members is typically either

1. you're naive and have your head in the sand
2.you're only saying this because you don't want to lose potential business

Let me say straight out that all possible naivety left me within the first year of taking the land over from my father. There are no naive South African farmers. Working everyday with Africans in an African country will do that. I'll also say that the loss of future business is low down on my list of priorities. I have two young children, a family, property, assets, workers and workers families to look after. I have no intention of being the last person to leave if the doomsday you're all predicting comes to fruition.

Now for some facts. There is no change whatsover in South Africa. Everything is the same as it was before. There are no EFF thugs banging down farmhouse doors, no land grabs. Another statistical fact - farm murders are bang on the national statistic for the national murder rate. As a South African farmer you're not more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the country. Farm murders are significantly down in 2018.

This is a political masterstroke by Ramaphosa. He promises something now to appeal to the more radical only to later define the conditions under which expropriation can occur leaving the constitutional court to sort out each individual case. Our constitution already allows for expropriation without compensation but the circumstances under which it can occur aren't defined. The ANC has no actual intention of amending the constitution. They may however add to it by defining some conditions. There are existing land claims that need to be settled and it's in the best interests of us all that they get settled. I believe they will use this as a means of forcing landowners with existing land claims on their property to be more reasonable regarding the asking value of their properties. There's been a lot said of the property they're trying to get from Mr Steenkamp. His asking price of R200 million is way to high, the state's offer of R10 million a little low but much closer to the true value. The talk of the property being rich in coal is immaterial. Landowners in SA don't own mineral rights and the state is able to mine this and only compensate him for the surface area used and right of way.

Ramaphosa stated yesterday that they have no intention of nationalising farm land. He also stated that they will transfer 4000 farms in the states name to emerging black farmers and that they will need the skills of existing farmers to help them be successful. Tribal lands, making up 4 million hectares, owned by the various kings and rented by their subjects will also be looked at.

South Africa isn't Zimbabwe and Ramaphosa isn't Mugabe. I know people who have done business with him and he's highly thought of as a businessman and planner. In SA however, the president rules at the pleasure of his party, he's inherited a large number of Zuma's cronies. Zuma is under trail and there's a state capture enquiry underway that will identify the members within the ANC that were involved in state capture. Slowly but surely he'll rid the party of these cronies and once he gets more of his own people in government, we'll begin to see more of his own policies coming through.

South Africa isn't black and white. There were some injustices done in the past and there has to be some justice for those that were wronged. Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

Thanks for the perspective.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Trump yanks money from Palestinians

https://www.allsides.com/news/2018-...s-200-million-economic-aid-gaza-and-west-bank

South Africa got 471 million U.S. taxpayer dollars in 2017. Land expropriation is cause for yanking that money. I wonder if the farms in the crosshairs are worth it.

https://africacheck.org/reports/sa-received-r6-1-billion-2017-us-not-r300-billion-da-mayor-claimed/