South Africa's ANC to change constitution to allow seizing land

[flatwater bill]

USAID website says last year, the USA gave $597 million to South Africa. I hope we can stop funding this madness. As one of the thugs said, "Africa should be for Africans". Fine, then let them support themselves..................don't make it easier to lie, cheat, steal and murder.......FWB

 

[mdwest]

It’s a bit more complicated than just the $597m in USAID money

If we’re talking funds that the US puts in toward aid and development.. then you also have to look at funds coming from the Dept of State Bureau of African Affairs.. as well as money that flows from the World Bank, IMF, and the UN.. all of which receive a huge chunk of their funding from the US...

I haven’t done the research.. but i’d guess the real number is somewhere much closer to the $1B mark..

Then consider the 600+ US firms with offices in SA and the $12B in bilateral trade that goes on between SA and the USA every year...

If the US really wanted to impose its will in SA and influence the current government,it has the means to do so...

It’s pretty clear however that our government doesn’t want to engage in this fight..

 

[flatwater bill]

mdw.............very good points!.............................and not only does our govt not want to engage in this fight, our media will rarely even mention it.................FWB

 

[Jeffrey Masters]

Our Government will never make an effort to change the course of events in RSA. It is too much of a taboo subject with race involved as it is.
With such a stark difference in the demographics, the current white landowners don't stand a chance. Obviously a constitution does not mean as much to them as it does to us. Play this story on the evening news, and a large percentage of Americans would side with the poor natives, out of ignorance, not knowing that much of the little wealth that SA has, comes from the current landowners.
I guess I should be happy that I was able have at least one hunt there. Some will never know the thrill.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

If fear is going to stop you from going then we won't go anywhere or do anything. We just returned from a very successful Cape Buffalo hunt in Makuya and plains game hunt in Limpopo Province up against the Zimbabwe and Botswana borders, followed by a journey to Cape Town after the hunt and never once felt endangered by the citizens of RSA. Can't same the same about the buffalo and elephant though but that was part of the adventure. Just be aware of your environment. As we see every night on the news, bad things happen to people everywhere. Conversations over supper and cocktails with Ester from the Makuya tribal administration gave me hope that their is some reason for hope in the RSA political landscape. If you're thinking of going, GO! Live life.

 

[Hogpatrol]

If fear is going to stop you from going then we won't go anywhere or do anything. We just returned from a very successful Cape Buffalo hunt in Makuya and plains game hunt in Limpopo Province up against the Zimbabwe and Botswana borders, followed by a journey to Cape Town after the hunt and never once felt endangered by the citizens of RSA. Can't same the same about the buffalo and elephant though but that was part of the adventure. Just be aware of your environment. As we see every night on the news, bad things happen to people everywhere. Conversations over supper and cocktails with Ester from the Makuya tribal administration gave me hope that their is some reason for hope in the RSA political landscape. If you're thinking of going, GO! Live life.

+1

 

[IvW]

The beginning of the end.

 

[Jeffrey Masters]

If fear is going to stop you from going then we won't go anywhere or do anything. We just returned from a very successful Cape Buffalo hunt in Makuya and plains game hunt in Limpopo Province up against the Zimbabwe and Botswana borders, followed by a journey to Cape Town after the hunt and never once felt endangered by the citizens of RSA. Can't same the same about the buffalo and elephant though but that was part of the adventure. Just be aware of your environment. As we see every night on the news, bad things happen to people everywhere. Conversations over supper and cocktails with Ester from the Makuya tribal administration gave me hope that their is some reason for hope in the RSA political landscape. If you're thinking of going, GO! Live life.

True enough. I hate to see the entire country move backwards centuries, because politicians care so little about what is right, and so much about their own greed.

 

[Hunting Sailor]

Of course it is attractive to pursue the land of the farms, and what comes next? And what after that? Mines have been in discussions before, factories, residential housing etc?
I doubt it it will stop with the farms once it begins.

Anyone that is part of the minority and can possibly leave the country would have to have thought about plans to do so. It would be unwise otherwise.
If you have a business that cannot move (Outfitter, shop, Dairy farm etc) it must be very difficult to not worry. Who would buy it from you, if you want to leave, for a price that would be to an advantage?
There are huge “bargains” all over the place right now, but it is for sure a gamble as to how long it can be sustainable.

There will continue to be great deals for hunting, the USD/ZAR ratio and that current land owners and outfitters would want to get what they can before it is too late would make that happen.
Come and hunt and enjoy the time in the bush. The tourists are usually not attacked.

I’m part of the small minority, ~10% and for sure feel, see and hear the majority’s pressure for us to leave. Land reform, health scheme reform, electricity cost increase, fuel increase etc. which in the end will hurt everyone in the country.
Affirmative Action, BEE, quotas of color in sports team, the list is very long and the writing is on the wall.

If you have been in SA and had a great time and never felt threaten, that is great news and I am very sincerely happy that you did. SA has so much to give and so many great areas in nature and wildlife etc.

Unfortunately the economy is not great and the 10% coincide very much with the 13% of the South African population that pay income tax (Anyone making over ~$6000 USD p/a has to pay income tax, below that you are tax exempt), once the 10% is further reduced by immigration, the pressure will increase and the economy will get worse.

My heart goes out to the ones that wants to, but cannot get out and are stuck in the downward spiral.
I think we will see an increasing flow of SA residents leaving the country. Why wouldn’t people leave if they could? If you’re not wanted in the country due to your skin color and your perceived wealth, right or wrong, and what you have and own the majority party wants to take away from you, why stay?

A bit off topic and a bit political and negative, sorry about that.

I was very positive about SA up until about 4-5 years ago, after that there has been very little positive that has come, but very much lots of negative. (The latest rifle I got through licensing took 54 work days, but still have one stuck in processing for 120 days and counting).
Not everything is about hunting though.

The ones that suffers the worst are the poor and often uneducated ones. The increase in price for everything hits them the hardest in regards to food cost, fuel and transport, strikes and high unemployment. They don’t care for much more than to put food on the table each day for their family, neither would I, so no blame on them at all.

Really sad to see the state SA is in. Having spent a lot of time in many different countries over the years I compare and there are so many areas where SA has potential, it is just not utilized.
But then again if the majority wants it a certain way, who am I to try to dictate something else in a democracy?

//Gus

 

[Shootist43]

Am I being naïve? When I read the list of lands that would be "confiscated first" I didn't see any current owner's names that looked "European." But rather looked like names of political friends that received land from previous confiscations. The government's desire to return currently unproductive lands (that may have been confiscated in the past) into viable farms seems to be their agenda. I for one am not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. At least not just yet.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

What exactly is it that your worried about. I see in the world news. That somwhere around 20 people were shot in chicago last weekend. I do not see where foreign visitors are cancelling there plans to visit disneyland in Florida. I just don't think I would want to visit certain parts of Chicago, bad, bad leroy Brown still might be about! Hunt Africa and enjoy life!

 

[GuttormG]

Am I being naïve? When I read the list of lands that would be "confiscated first" I didn't see any current owner's names that looked "European." But rather looked like names of political friends that received land from previous confiscations.

No names of landowners are given on the list (if you are referring to the one posted in this thread), the columns are province, municipality, name of property, number of property.

 

[revturbo9967]

What exactly is it that your worried about. I see in the world news. That somwhere around 20 people were shot in chicago last weekend. I do not see where foreign visitors are cancelling there plans to visit disneyland in Florida. I just don't think I would want to visit certain parts of Chicago, bad, bad leroy Brown still might be about! Hunt Africa and enjoy life!

i myself am not worried about the crime in SA when it comes to a hunt. im more worried about the destination not being there when im ready to fly over.

 

[Shootist43]

GuttormG, you are correct. I mistook the names of the municipalities for those of owners. It would be nice to see the names of the owners these properties as well as any changes in the value of goods, food etc. produced from prior years to now.

 

[antiflag83]

What Will Happen When the ANC Takes My Farm

Spurgeon Flemington, Facebook, August 11, 2018


I have no doubt that the ANC Govt has given a lot of thought to the topic of Expropriation Without Compensation (EWC) however I think they might not have fully comprehended the consequences of such a policy. As a farmer I thought it might be useful to enlighten them as to the course of action I would take once my farm is targeted for EWC. Before I continue I would like to emphasize that this is not a threat nor delivered with the mindset of a saboteur, it is merely a description of the sequence of events that would unfold in the event of such a policy being enforced.

• I would immediately identify all the moveable assets on my farm and start selling them or placing them in a suitable storage facility. I list these below simply to demonstrate to non-farmers what makes a farm functional and profitable. The first to go would be all the livestock followed by all the machinery including tractors, pumps, silos, centre pivots, electrical transformers, irrigation equipment, water troughs, implements and piping. I would strip the dairy and sell the bulk tanks, milking machines etc. I would take down all internal fencing on the farm and recoup what I could. All sheds would be disassembled and all houses and other buildings would be stripped of anything sellable, including their roofs.
• I would disconnect/cancel the 5 Eskom points on the farm and obtain refunds on the deposits I’ve paid on them.
• I would re-trench all my staff and pay them off in accordance with the Labour Act. I would then strip all the staff accommodation on the farm and sell what I could.
• With the sale of all my livestock and cessation of the farming operation I would immediately default on the R5.5m I owe FNB but I wouldn’t worry as the farm is the loan’s security and I don’t really own anything else.
• When the day came to leave the farm I would hand the ‘keys’ over to the new ‘owners’ but I’m not quite sure what they would do as there’d be no roof on the farm house and there would be nothing to ‘farm’ on the farm. It would just be a piece of land, but that’s ok because the ANC says owning land makes you wealthy.

When you take the sequence of events described above and multiply it on a national scale you see another sequence of events unfolding.

• The new ‘farmers’ arrive on the farm but there is no livestock, machinery or working capital to continue the operation.
• They go to the banks to borrow money (A good farming habit) but the banks are sitting on a R160 Billion defaulted debt book from the ‘old’ farmers and won’t lend a cent to agriculture. They’re fighting for their own survival now.
• The Govt doesn’t have the money, which would be far more than the R160 Billion mentioned above, to re-capitalise and finance all the farms so most of the farms either fall derelict or are farmed at a subsistence level.
• There is a massive but short-term surplus of Beef, Sheep and Poultry products due to the sell-off by the previous farmers. This brings prices down drastically in the short term but eventually the meat runs out and there is nothing to replace it. Meat prices skyrocket.
• Dairy products cease almost immediately after the livestock cull/sell-off and within weeks there is a critical shortage of all dairy products. Importing is impossible due to the Govt’s actions which have decimated the value of the Rand.
• Maize lasts quite a bit longer and with careful rationing will endure until the next season but there is no crop in the ground for next year due to the new ‘farmers’ lack of machinery, experience and access to credit.
• All agricultural Co-Ops and suppliers very quickly cease operation and/or go bankrupt and re-trench all their staff. They cannot survive by selling single bags of seed and fertilizer to subsistence farmers.
• All processors of agricultural products such as meat, dairy and maize cease operation due to lack of product and re-trench all their staff.
• Rural Municipalities start to feel the pinch as there are no longer any farmers paying rates and the agricultural businesses in the towns have also sold up and left.
• Smaller rural towns that depended on agriculture eventually collapse and rural communities are forced to travel long distances to major centres to find ever dwindling supplies.
• Ironically the EWC movement creates more Urbanisation as the rural folk flee the agricultural desert that has been created.
• All food dependent enterprises such as fast food chains and restaurants either disappear or are greatly reduced…along with all their staff.
• With all the unemployed farmworkers, as well as those who have lost their jobs from other sectors, there is an unsustainable demand on the UIF system and it soon collapses.
• The Social Grant system teeters as the ripple effect from the agricultural collapse enters all sectors and the tax-base is shredded.
• Food riots become common and genuine hunger and poverty widespread.
• Unlike Zimbabwe the South African population has nowhere to run.
• With the White Farmer no longer an available target and the true ‘value’ of land revealed in all its fallacy the masses turn on the only target they have left. The ANC.

 

[Dr Ray]

This is a major concern and how safe will it be for tourists etc??

 

[IvW]

It now appears that many of these properties are on coal, gold and platinum belts. 3 of the farms border the presidents.

The plot thickens.

 

[Supercat]

What Will Happen When the ANC Takes My Farm

Spurgeon Flemington, Facebook, August 11, 2018


I have no doubt that the ANC Govt has given a lot of thought to the topic of Expropriation Without Compensation (EWC) however I think they might not have fully comprehended the consequences of such a policy. As a farmer I thought it might be useful to enlighten them as to the course of action I would take once my farm is targeted for EWC. Before I continue I would like to emphasize that this is not a threat nor delivered with the mindset of a saboteur, it is merely a description of the sequence of events that would unfold in the event of such a policy being enforced.

• I would immediately identify all the moveable assets on my farm and start selling them or placing them in a suitable storage facility. I list these below simply to demonstrate to non-farmers what makes a farm functional and profitable. The first to go would be all the livestock followed by all the machinery including tractors, pumps, silos, centre pivots, electrical transformers, irrigation equipment, water troughs, implements and piping. I would strip the dairy and sell the bulk tanks, milking machines etc. I would take down all internal fencing on the farm and recoup what I could. All sheds would be disassembled and all houses and other buildings would be stripped of anything sellable, including their roofs.
• I would disconnect/cancel the 5 Eskom points on the farm and obtain refunds on the deposits I’ve paid on them.
• I would re-trench all my staff and pay them off in accordance with the Labour Act. I would then strip all the staff accommodation on the farm and sell what I could.
• With the sale of all my livestock and cessation of the farming operation I would immediately default on the R5.5m I owe FNB but I wouldn’t worry as the farm is the loan’s security and I don’t really own anything else.
• When the day came to leave the farm I would hand the ‘keys’ over to the new ‘owners’ but I’m not quite sure what they would do as there’d be no roof on the farm house and there would be nothing to ‘farm’ on the farm. It would just be a piece of land, but that’s ok because the ANC says owning land makes you wealthy.

When you take the sequence of events described above and multiply it on a national scale you see another sequence of events unfolding.

• The new ‘farmers’ arrive on the farm but there is no livestock, machinery or working capital to continue the operation.
• They go to the banks to borrow money (A good farming habit) but the banks are sitting on a R160 Billion defaulted debt book from the ‘old’ farmers and won’t lend a cent to agriculture. They’re fighting for their own survival now.
• The Govt doesn’t have the money, which would be far more than the R160 Billion mentioned above, to re-capitalise and finance all the farms so most of the farms either fall derelict or are farmed at a subsistence level.
• There is a massive but short-term surplus of Beef, Sheep and Poultry products due to the sell-off by the previous farmers. This brings prices down drastically in the short term but eventually the meat runs out and there is nothing to replace it. Meat prices skyrocket.
• Dairy products cease almost immediately after the livestock cull/sell-off and within weeks there is a critical shortage of all dairy products. Importing is impossible due to the Govt’s actions which have decimated the value of the Rand.
• Maize lasts quite a bit longer and with careful rationing will endure until the next season but there is no crop in the ground for next year due to the new ‘farmers’ lack of machinery, experience and access to credit.
• All agricultural Co-Ops and suppliers very quickly cease operation and/or go bankrupt and re-trench all their staff. They cannot survive by selling single bags of seed and fertilizer to subsistence farmers.
• All processors of agricultural products such as meat, dairy and maize cease operation due to lack of product and re-trench all their staff.
• Rural Municipalities start to feel the pinch as there are no longer any farmers paying rates and the agricultural businesses in the towns have also sold up and left.
• Smaller rural towns that depended on agriculture eventually collapse and rural communities are forced to travel long distances to major centres to find ever dwindling supplies.
• Ironically the EWC movement creates more Urbanisation as the rural folk flee the agricultural desert that has been created.
• All food dependent enterprises such as fast food chains and restaurants either disappear or are greatly reduced…along with all their staff.
• With all the unemployed farmworkers, as well as those who have lost their jobs from other sectors, there is an unsustainable demand on the UIF system and it soon collapses.
• The Social Grant system teeters as the ripple effect from the agricultural collapse enters all sectors and the tax-base is shredded.
• Food riots become common and genuine hunger and poverty widespread.
• Unlike Zimbabwe the South African population has nowhere to run.
• With the White Farmer no longer an available target and the true ‘value’ of land revealed in all its fallacy the masses turn on the only target they have left. The ANC.

Incredible and chilling post!

 

[Supercat]

This is a major concern and how safe will it be for tourists etc??

I don't think that tourists safety will be an issue because there won't be any

 

[LivingTheDream]

This is a major concern and how safe will it be for tourists etc??

Was just there 3 days ago, it was safe, didn't worry about a thing. Go and enjoy yourself.