South Africa's ANC to change constitution to allow seizing land

[Rickmt]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply as a South African. I am surprised you are the only one.

 

[Fred Gunner]

I am surprised you are the only one.

All the others are busy...

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I appreciate you taking the time to reply as a South African. I am surprised you are the only one.

Sir, with all due respect, because every time we say something, as Victor has mentioned, we are told we are being naive, or we get told we are only saying this because we are trying to save business.
Tired of beating the same drum.
Thanks for taking the time to put the facts on the table Victor.

 

[Rickmt]

Thanx Marius , I take it you agree with Victor.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thanx Marius , I take it you agree with Victor.

100% Sir, and its not just a South African thing.

https://www.news24.com/Africa/News/...so-namibians-says-president-geingob-20180827?

 

[Hunting Sailor]

@PHASA just stated a pretty strong message on FB. Perhaps it could be posted here? @SafariA?

 

[PHASA]

Herewith the notice posted today on our FB page . Hope this will bring a more assurance to our hunting clients !

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

All the others are busy...

View attachment 246369

Too busy hunting yes. Been a good season for SA outfitters

 

[MAdcox]

Thanks @Karoo Wild Safaris for the viewpoint of someone there. The outfitter I hunted with in Limpopo last year says very similar things. I won’t speak for him, but to say it’s a situation to watch if the wrong people start getting more power but currently not much different than what the situation has always been.
I also read some stats that showed farm murders were down recently and actually drastically down from the early 2000s. The findings pointed more to basic crime -granted a pretty high crime rate- but not to a white genocide as some have been suggesting.
I hope this is the case, I loved my first trip to RSA and am returning next year with my wife. I have two young sons I hope to take in the future as well.
I’ve been thinking a trip to the Eastern Cape would be a good hunt for them. Watch Dad get a bushbuck and Nyala, then I could kick back and just watch them hunt and experience Africa. Have to give you a call in 6 or 7 years.

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Thanks @Karoo Wild Safaris for the viewpoint of someone there. The outfitter I hunted with in Limpopo last year says very similar things. I won’t speak for him, but to say it’s a situation to watch if the wrong people start getting more power but currently not much different than what the situation has always been.
I also read some stats that showed farm murders were down recently and actually drastically down from the early 2000s. The findings pointed more to basic crime -granted a pretty high crime rate- but not to a white genocide as some have been suggesting.
I hope this is the case, I loved my first trip to RSA and am returning next year with my wife. I have two young sons I hope to take in the future as well.
I’ve been thinking a trip to the Eastern Cape would be a good hunt for them. Watch Dad get a bushbuck and Nyala, then I could kick back and just watch them hunt and experience Africa. Have to give you a call in 6 or 7 years.

Thank you. Your sons would love the Eastern Cape

 

[Russ-F]

You asked for an opinion an I'd like to give mine. As a landowner/farmer/outfitter I've given my opinion before on this subject and similar subjects and the retort from a few members is typically either

1. you're naive and have your head in the sand
2.you're only saying this because you don't want to lose potential business

Let me say straight out that all possible naivety left me within the first year of taking the land over from my father. There are no naive South African farmers. Working everyday with Africans in an African country will do that. I'll also say that the loss of future business is low down on my list of priorities. I have two young children, a family, property, assets, workers and workers families to look after. I have no intention of being the last person to leave if the doomsday you're all predicting comes to fruition.

Now for some facts. There is no change whatsover in South Africa. Everything is the same as it was before. There are no EFF thugs banging down farmhouse doors, no land grabs. Another statistical fact - farm murders are bang on the national statistic for the national murder rate. As a South African farmer you're not more likely to be murdered than anyone else in the country. Farm murders are significantly down in 2018.

This is a political masterstroke by Ramaphosa. He promises something now to appeal to the more radical only to later define the conditions under which expropriation can occur leaving the constitutional court to sort out each individual case. Our constitution already allows for expropriation without compensation but the circumstances under which it can occur aren't defined. The ANC has no actual intention of amending the constitution. They may however add to it by defining some conditions. There are existing land claims that need to be settled and it's in the best interests of us all that they get settled. I believe they will use this as a means of forcing landowners with existing land claims on their property to be more reasonable regarding the asking value of their properties. There's been a lot said of the property they're trying to get from Mr Steenkamp. His asking price of R200 million is way to high, the state's offer of R10 million a little low but much closer to the true value. The talk of the property being rich in coal is immaterial. Landowners in SA don't own mineral rights and the state is able to mine this and only compensate him for the surface area used and right of way.

Ramaphosa stated yesterday that they have no intention of nationalising farm land. He also stated that they will transfer 4000 farms in the states name to emerging black farmers and that they will need the skills of existing farmers to help them be successful. Tribal lands, making up 4 million hectares, owned by the various kings and rented by their subjects will also be looked at.

South Africa isn't Zimbabwe and Ramaphosa isn't Mugabe. I know people who have done business with him and he's highly thought of as a businessman and planner. In SA however, the president rules at the pleasure of his party, he's inherited a large number of Zuma's cronies. Zuma is under trail and there's a state capture enquiry underway that will identify the members within the ANC that were involved in state capture. Slowly but surely he'll rid the party of these cronies and once he gets more of his own people in government, we'll begin to see more of his own policies coming through.

South Africa isn't black and white. There were some injustices done in the past and there has to be some justice for those that were wronged. Our political situation is extremely complex, a CNN or Fox News piece isn't going to give you the information necessary to make an informed decision.

Trust on the ground reports from people living in South Africa.

Thanks for that insight.

Regards
Russ

 

[Fred Gunner]

South African gov't withdraws farmland redistribution bill
Aug. 28, 2018 - 1:33 - Tucker, However, politicians in South Africa are still planning to seize land without compensation on racial grounds. Western liberals support this. Barack Obama supports it. So does British Prime Minister Theresa May. So does pretty much our entire ruling class and news media. They’re all in favor of collective punishment based on race. That’s the real story here. #Tucker

 

[BRICKBURN]

Expropriation Bill withdrawn for further consideration



28 August 2018 - 16:31 Linda Ensor

Parliament’s public works committee has withdrawn the Expropriation Bill because of the parliamentary process underway to review section 25 of the constitution, which deals with land expropriation without compensation.


The ANC members of the committee welcomed the withdrawal.


The bill was passed by parliament in 2016, and returned by former president Jacob Zuma in 2017, due to concerns arising from the public participation process followed by the National Council of Provinces (NCOP).


In February this year, the National Assembly and NCOP adopted a resolution instructing the constitutional review committee (CRC) to review — among other possible amendments — section 25 of the constitution to make it possible for the state to expropriate land, in the public interest, without compensation


The public works committee has withdrawn the bill in its current form for further consideration after the conclusion of the CRC process.


Whip of the ANC study group on public works Freddie Adams said: "As the ANC, we reiterate our commitment to pursue the expropriation of land without compensation as one of the measures to ensure land reform is implemented in a way that increases agricultural production, improves food security and ensures the land is returned to those from whom it was taken under colonialism and apartheid."

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/n...ion-bill-withdrawn-for-further-consideration/

 

[BRICKBURN]

Expropriation Bill to be redrafted to accommodate expropriation without compensation





28 August 2018 - 17:03 By Andisiwe Makinana




Public Works deputy minister Jeremy Cronin wants the redrafted bill published by the end of the year.
Image: Times Media

The government wants to withdraw the Expropriation Bill which has been stuck in Parliament for many years and to reintroduce it with provisions that will guide the process to follow in expropriating land without compensation.


In an ambitious plan announced by Public Works deputy minister Jeremy Cronin‚ the intention is to publish the redrafted bill by the end of the year – mainly to signal to the many different groups who are concerned about expropriation of land without compensation‚ the exact process government will follow in expropriating land without compensation.


The current bill‚ which was passed by Parliament in 2016‚ provides for the expropriation of land for a public purpose such as building a road or a dam‚ erecting a power line and for land reform‚ but it does not provide for expropriation without compensation but rather just and equitable compensation. It is mainly about the process and sequence that should be followed to ensure an administratively just process. Former president Jacob Zuma sent it back to Parliament on the grounds that public participation was inadequate.


On Tuesday‚ Cronin told MPs in the portfolio committee on public work that the government wanted to send a clear signal to both those that thought expropriation without compensation meant there would be white genocide and to those who were frustrated by the slow land reform process. Cronin said the government wanted to take everyone into its confidence as to what it was trying to do‚ following US President Donald Trump's tweet‚ the campaign by AfriForum and the hostility from the institute of race relations and to address “characters from the other side”.


“How do we send the signal which calms as best as possible the situation?






“That is by embodying in the current bill additions which will indicate the conditions under which it will be just and equitable for them to be no compensation‚" said Cronin.


"That's what we would like to achieve from the side of Cabinet because Cabinet is well aware that we are dealing with a highly emotive issue and one that is dangerous for the country‚ for the investment that we need and is also dangerous if we do not move in terms of the anger and frustration that people are feeling around the land issue. So we are dealing with emotions of all sides and we need to provide serious leadership‚” he added.


Cronin said the government would use an “interesting clause” in the Bill of Rights: Section 25.8 which read “no provision of this section may impede the state from taking legislative and other measures to achieve land‚ water and related reform‚ in order to redress the results of past racial discrimination‚ provided that any departure from the provisions of this section is in accordance with the provisions of section 36(1).”


The provisions of Section 36 [1] are about general limitation of rights and reads: “The rights in the Bill of Rights may be limited only in terms of law of general application to the extent that the limitation is reasonable and justifiable in an open and democratic society based on human dignity‚ equality and freedom‚ taking into account all relevant factors…”





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Cronin said the additions to the redrafted bill would provide clarity in legislation as to the kind of boundaries of such a limitation. “That is what we propose to do”.


He said the department of public works couldn't move on this because the bill was now the property of Parliament but its withdrawal or rejection by Parliament would enable the department to bring about the new changes.


“Now we will need to add‚ mainly to send a signal to the courts‚ to Trump‚ to Fox News Agency but also to the hotheads on the other side of things that yes‚ we may well‚ once Parliament has decided‚ and it looks like Parliament is going to decide with the majority obviously that in certain cases expropriation without compensation will be allowed.”


This could be said in an amendment to the Constitution but further clarity could not be written into the Constitution but would require legislation to provide guidance. “That would then become the role of a new expropriation bill‚” he said.





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He later told the Sunday Times that it was the Cabinet's view that whatever the decisions of Parliament following the constitutional review committee process‚ there would need to be ordinary legislation that would provide the courts‚ expropriators‚ expropriated parties and everyone with guidance as to what would be the limits of expropriation without compensation.

“The bill in its current form doesn't envisage expropriation without compensation; it envisages the possibility of expropriation with very little compensation‚ if you take into account all the factors listed in Section 25 and the history of acquisition. But it doesn't explicitly provide guidance around expropriation without compensation‚” he said.

“Our ambition is to publish for public comment before the end of the year... to signal that it's about comfort to those who are desperate about land reform‚ which is their right‚ that we are not abandoning the possibility of expropriation without compensation and to others who are concerned that will be a wild affair‚ that this is how government intends to do it‚” said Cronin.

The committee agreed to write to Speaker Baleka Mbete to withdraw the bill from Parliament.

https://www.timeslive.co.za/politic...commodate-expropriation-without-compensation/

 

[Supercat]

Do you South African's REALLY want Trump to, "Leave us the hell alone?"

It seems as though he's the only friend you got...

 

[revturbo9967]

Do you South African's REALLY want Trump to, "Leave us the hell alone?"

It seems as though he's the only friend you got...

they most likely didn't say such a thing

 

[Supercat]

they most likely didn't say such a thing

Wasn’t that a statement made by a RSA Farmer?

 

[revturbo9967]

Wasn’t that a statement made by a RSA Farmer?

Supposedly.

 

[IdaRam]

Do you South African's REALLY want Trump to, "Leave us the hell alone?"

It seems as though he's the only friend you got...

they most likely didn't say such a thing

Wasn’t that a statement made by a RSA Farmer?

Supposedly.

In today’s political climate worldwide, it is increasingly unwise to believe anything you hear from the news media. If it is not manufactured information and made up “facts”, it certainly will have a spin on it.
Even if a SA Farmer did say that, which is most certainly possible, does 1 man speak for all? If you believe that statement in the news piece it would certainly seem so! Pick and choose, distort statements, present out of context just so long as it fits your agenda! And make sure the masses believe your lies are the opinion of the majority!

 

[BRICKBURN]

.............. Pick and choose, distort statements, present out of context just so long as it fits your agenda! And make sure the masses believe your lies are the opinion of the majority!

TWEETS?!