SOUTH AFRICA: Question For Tootabi Hunting Safaris

[Royal27]

If you get everything sorted to operate legally, I really think you should change the name of your operation Loodt.
It smells very strongly of trying to leech on another outfitters reputation.

Norwegianwoods,

If Loodt had picked the name out of the blue I would agree with you. I think the point that is being missed though is that Tootabi is the name Loodt's family farm goes by and has for years, well before the other outfitter began to use the name for his business. I know that if I was in Loodt's position you would have been hard pressed to convince me that I shouldn't use the name I grew up with just because someone else decided to use it in another form (Valley).

Just my opinion

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Royal I believe you are wrong as there is no grey area, one can not market without a OP NO GREY ARE HERE PERIOD.

All the rest as in my previous post.

Also please do not reply with any negativity, as I believe I have not, not to Loodt and also not to your reply.

But I do not think by down playing the situation will solve anything and most definitely also not nailing the factual suppliers to the wall.

It is what it is. I wish Loodt all the best.

Gentleman I DO not think that all the contributors on this thread realizes the seriousness of not being IN POSSESSION OF AN OP.

If I operate safaris in Zim in such a manner I would have been led to the slaughter.

Loodt.... once again thanks and I know you will do well.

My best always.

 

[Royal27]

Royal I believe you are wrong as there is no grey area, one can not market without a OP NO GREY ARE HERE PERIOD.

All the rest as in my previous post.

Also please do not reply with any negativity, as I believe I have not, not to Loodt and also not to your reply.

But I do not think by down playing the situation will solve anything and most definitely also not nailing the factual suppliers to the wall.

It is what it is. I wish Loodt all the best.

Gentleman I DO not think that all the contributors on this thread realizes the seriousness of not being IN POSSESSION OF AN OP.

If I operate safaris in Zim in such a manner I would have been led to the slaughter.

Loodt.... once again thanks and I know you will do well.

My best always.

Jaco,

I agree with you - there is no gray area. I apologize if I led you to believe that I thought there was.

I also apologize if you felt my comments were directed at you, they were not. I've read many of your posts here and have much respect.

My comments were directed to much earlier posts that I believed were negative and unhelpful. I intended for my comments to be factual, not negative.

I hope this clears up my comments and again, sorry if you mistook what I said.

Royal

 

[Norwegianwoods]

Royal27
The name of his family farm might have been Tootabi for many years.
But his outfitter business have not at all.
He knows very well that his neighbor has had an outfitter business with the name Tootabi Valley Safaris for years.

Then it is very simple. You don't name your own outfitter business with a name that is very similar and that can be very easily confused with each other.

I don't know Loodt at all, but I can tell you one thing for sure.
I will never book a hunt with a company that starts up and give itself a name that is very similar to another company that operates next door and have been doing so for years.
I have a very strong suspicion I am not the only one.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

No need Royal... I just wanted to state.... I do understand your point of view...

My best always.

 

[daved]

Loodt,

Thanks for your answer and your honesty. We all make mistakes in life, that is certain. The best men learn from these mistakes, and I believe that you will.

To reiterate what you said, you were honest with me as to the status of your license. I made a mistake by not realizing that the OL was required to market. I assumed it was only needed to have the actual hunt and I was willing to take the chance that you'd have it well before my hunt in order to support a young man who I believe has great potential. That opinion hasn't changed, and I still plan to hunt with you, after all of the paperwork has been formalized.

I've learned a lot in this thread, as I hope others have as well. I now better know what questions to ask and have a better understanding of SA law than I did. I've also learned that some seem to believe that the end justifies the means. You made a mistake, and you've owned up yo it. You didn't do much of what you were accused of though from what I can tell and most of the accusations that were being presented as fact have not been backed up by the accusers. These gentlemen I will never recommend, nor hunt with, as in my opinion the accusations were made to hurt a competitor and not to "help the industry" or "save a client." The original question of marketing without a license was a valid one and was a question. It should have been brought up in open forum. The subsequent accusations should not have been, not without fact to back them up.

Don't give up, continue to work hard, and i believe you will be successful in this business!

Sincerely,

Royal

Royal Thank you for opinion
This and other forums are full of people complaining about illegal operations, and trophy confiscations or trophies not arriving.

These all by illegal and unscrupulous outfitters. As a PHASA representative of the eastern cape I was approached by a member in good standing about a problem. I made the necessary phone calls and found out that the accusations where in fact true.

I made this public knowledge as I don't want our industry tarnished. I don't make unfounded public accusations with out proof.

Hunts we're being illegally offered on fraudulent information. If this is the class of person you wish to hunt with , by all means.

As to Loodt, I don't know you or your operation. Thank you for coming clean.

A simple Question, Would you have continued booking illegal hunts if you had not been exposed ?

Unfortunately you are going to need that lawyer you were talking about because at the end of the day you broke the law.

As for hunting with loot this year, time will tell.

To loodt, I sincerely wish you the best going forward an to the many self imposed hurdles in your near future.

There is a right way and a wrong way and you unfortunately knew the consequences.

Get your PH, get your Outfitters and get a new NAME. You have the potential to be great, you are young and ambitious. This industry is built on honesty and a handshake. Bulls$&t can baffle brains but don't be one of those outfitters .This industry is small and you can quickly smear your name.

Come to the PHASA meeting 27th at the Bedford club. Meet the industry leaders and start from a new solid foundation.
Best to you in the future, Noel Ross And Chappie Scott run a first class school, you can learn a lot from them.

I would also consider an apprenticeship with someone to see HOW to run a Safari.

Best to you in the future
Dave Davenport

 

[billc]

Well since so many are saying he had so many reason for jumping in before all permits were in place.I think some had reason more then just trying to protect hunters bringing some things out for all to see.I think the $$$$$$$ made some people say things plan and simple.How starting early with ads was going to put him right to the top I am not sure.Now the prices he was doing that may just do that in time if the hunts end up being all thats promised.Time will tell that for sure.I dont think any of the regular guys from the site had bad post on the subject here.Some who come on the site a few times a year or started as a new member for this post had reason for doing so.

 

[billc]

I will add I am sure some of you guys who have been around for years have seen many bad outfits.My guess would be many start with the plans of short time make what they can step on anyone to get ahead.I dont blame those who may have had dealings with that type.What a few of us are saying is we did not get that feeling from loodt.He was eager yes thought he could get the permit with out the ph coarse.Looks like there was loopholes around that law as he stated in his post that he could be and outfitter with out ph license.Maybe there was maybe not as i dont know what they told him.So now to make it right he will take the coarse and go from there.I think maybe everyone is use to people who make mistakes of being guilty of wanting to do it on purpose.Mistakes happen and some can be honest mistakes not meant to hurt anyone.

 

[mikejones]

Hi all,

Must agree with BillC on the $$$$ part.

As i understand this thread , Loodt doesn't take the clients out hunting so that's all legal.

He could have worked as the middleman and send his clients out with qualified PH's and grow his name from there.

Once he has his PH and outfitter licence then he could have stayed in touch with his clients from these previous hunts.

anyway good luck and wish u all the best


Mike Jones

Holland

 

[billc]

As for the name of the business.If my famlies farm has been called tootabi farms as I grew up I would use the name also.Again why is it thought he is trying to use something to get ahead.Because someone feels like that it must be true then dont think so..It is a place not some made up name someone came up with.No meant to look down on anyone but not like tootabi valley is some house hold name in the safari business that has thousands of people looking for it.Two having the word tootabi could be good for both really, as both could get traffic they may not have seen other wise.Loodt could have someone come across tootabi valley searching for him just as easy as the other way around.Now since all this post has been about is all legal in all ways.There is a way to handle the name legally and if one is right and the other is wrong someone will be changing there name soon enough.I am glad new york does not have the name power as tootabi.We would only have the new your yankess (which I hate)no new york mets,new york gaints,new york jets and so on.

 

[Nyati]

Hi all,

Must agree with BillC on the $$$$ part.

As i understand this thread , Loodt doesn't take the clients out hunting so that's all legal.

He could have worked as the middleman and send his clients out with qualified PH's and grow his name from there.

Once he has his PH and outfitter licence then he could have stayed in touch with his clients from these previous hunts.

anyway good luck and wish u all the best


Mike Jones

Holland

Mike it is ILLEGAL to hunt in SA without an invitation letter from a Licensed Outfitter.

How are you going to import your firearms ?

How are you going to export your trophies ?

 

[dobber]

Not to take away from the severity of the issue of operating without a licence, that in itself needs to get rectified, and am sure Loodt will correct this and face whatever ramifications come out of it. Changing the name is an interesting argument, I see everyone's point, and with a few clicks in Google I found things that would concern me as an outfitter, albeit an outfitter who wasn't confident in their business, and in no way is this a shot as I think everyone on this board would agree that one of the names I am going to list, is a stand up guy, runs a top notch business and has shown a professional response to most of his replies.
Kwalata Wilderness Wildlife Reserve, Game Lodge and Hunting Concession - - known by all here, top notch, answers questions, not very pretty to look at though
http://kwalataranch.com/ - not known, at least not by me, could be all of the above as well, so not taking anything away from him/her

Same location, similar names
Another quick google search and found that Tootabi is an actual place, can even check the weather Weather for Tootabi, South Africa - Overview - Storm247.com

Loodt is young, he is the future and am sure this lesson is a tough one for him, he will be a better man for it. Letter of the law was broken, his actions I think weren't done in a malicious manner with intent to screw over any person.

Does anyone else think that Jaco looks a bit like Fred Flintstone? (need to lighten the thread up a little, and no offense to anyone related to the Flintstone family)

 

[billc]

Lets make one thing clear for everyone.There has been no illegal hunts done as no one has hunted with loodt yet.He broke the rule of advertisng before legal to do so.He has the papers in to make himself legal 100%.He jumped the gun with that part and is paying the price for that.By the time any of us hunt with him he will be legal or we would not be hunting.You all are making like he can not get the license now.I dont think any of us know if he will or not still be able to get one now.Loodt still thinks everything is on track for him to get the license right after he is done with the ph coarse.I for one can wait the few weeks to find out if he will get all permits to be legal for my hunt.He has the temp permit already and licensed ph's to run the hunt if someone comes as he waits to find out about the reg. permit.Some may not like the idea of that temp license or some other stuff but legal is legal if those steps have been done.I can not say it enough he did not lie to me or hide any of those facts.He told me he was waiting for his final permits and he would not be my ph on my hunt from the first time we talked.There are no facts saying anything more has happen then that.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Wahaha I'm gonna get you for this one....

:elch:unch:eace::tongue::tongue::tongue:



Ps Kwalata game ranch is located in Gauteng province...

Kwalata Safaris = Zambia (Lesley Long, Peter Chipman) previously From Zambia.

The longest standing and very first is Kwalata Wilderness CC. Myself and Reinhard as partners. Est. 1988

I just want to state we do not share the same locations not even close.

 

[billc]

He does look like he could stop a car with his barefeet like fred use to do.

 

[Nyati]

Besides, kwalata is a common word.....in setswana, right Jaco ?

 

[peras]

Lets make one thing clear for everyone.There has been no illegal hunts done as no one has hunted with loodt yet.He broke the rule of advertisng before legal to do so.He has the papers in to make himself legal 100%.He jumped the gun with that part and is paying the price for that.By the time any of us hunt with him he will be legal or we would not be hunting.You all are making like he can not get the license now.I dont think any of us know if he will or not still be able to get one now.Loodt still thinks everything is on track for him to get the license right after he is done with the ph coarse.I for one can wait the few weeks to find out if he will get all permits to be legal for my hunt.He has the temp permit already and licensed ph's to run the hunt if someone comes as he waits to find out about the reg. permit.Some may not like the idea of that temp license or some other stuff but legal is legal if those steps have been done.I can not say it enough he did not lie to me or hide any of those facts.He told me he was waiting for his final permits and he would not be my ph on my hunt from the first time we talked.There are no facts saying anything more has happen then that.

From what I gather he was honest with all his potential clients about this.

 

[billc]

I think the kwalata name was used just to show it can happen.Just think of how many use the east cape in there name for there safari business.All because someone said it will hurt there business or there doing it to ride there coat tails does not make that the reason the name was picked.Thats what that person thinks and maybe his friends but that does not make it true either.

 

[Biggdawg]

How I see this is that if a person is willing to cut corners when they are starting out what does that say they will do later down the road.

also ignorance of the law doesn't make it right. the law was still broken.

I can't believe that we as a society are willing to accept breaking the law or cutting corners as long as we reap the benefit.

he may have had good intentions but it doesn't excuse the fact that he broke the law plain and simple.

if you get pulled over because you didn't see the reduced speed limit sign does the officer say " Oh i am sorry sir you didn't see the sign? well then i will tear up this ticket. as long as you didn't see the sign it is ok."

 

[billc]

Who is reaping any benefits from all this.I guess you never went over the speed limit in you life or because you did not get caught you were not breaking the law.For the record some will let you go if the reason is valid to them.Had it happen first hand.No I am not one of those perfect people who have not broken a law ever.Plus I think he said as much in his post and said he was sorry for that also.Some of you perfect people make me sick to my stomach how you always think the worst of someone for making a mistake.