SAFETY WARNING!

[Velo Dog]

Guess that pretty much rules out you voting for Hillary, does it?

Not positive Hillary is actually a woman but "she" is definitely a politician (probably thinks Beetle music sounds great as well).

 

[JFL]

WARNING!!

As I was unable to find a forum dealing specifically with firearms safety, I trust that the moderators will move this thread to the appropriate section.

Before that happens, I have placed it here, initially,hoping that as many shooters/hunters as possible see this? and that perhaps any repeat incidents are avoided.

I want to state now that I will not be drawn in to answering PM's, e-mails or q's from this thread requesting further information regarding this incident, as I was not present at the incident and have no factual knowledge to confirm which of the multitude of potential causes of this incident were responsible.

I do not want to minimize this incident for the person involved and would also not want to potentially jeopardize any legals that may/may not follow.

I just don't want to see this happen to anyone else and if this post prompts users to check their firearms and prevents even one repeat episode we will all be better off.

I also wish to state that I am not driving any particular equipment design, or brand, agenda here other than highlighting a POTENTIAL SAFETY HAZARD, and what may be a potentially disastrous situation for the unwary.
Today I witnessed the results of a bolt coming straight back through the face of the shooter behind it.

The results being quite devastating, (and I would suggest coming close to being fatal).

I urge all of you operating ANY (of which there are several)straight-pull bolt-gun systems, take-down rifles and rifles with interchangeable barrels REGARDLESS OF BRAND OR MODEL to check your RIFLE ORHAVE IT CHECKED THOROUGHLY BY A COMPETENT GUNSMITH FOR ANY POTENTIAL FLAWS AND HAVE IT CHECKED (SAFELY) FOR A POTENTIAL TO FIRE WHEN NOT FULLY CLOSED,REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS MADE BY THE MANUFACTURER OF THAT PARTICULAR FIREARM.

I appreciate that the occurrence of this type of incident may not be limited to the particular designs of firearms I have highlighted in this post and/or a result of the firearm itself, therefore it may be a timely reminder to all of us to ensure our firearms are in good, safe working order and that we hand-load responsibly and safely.

Thank-you all for your patience and, I hope, your compliance to my request that we all enjoy our sport as safely as possible.

 

[JFL]

I would like to inform you of a recent accident with a Blaser R 93 very similar to what I have seen on this forum :
my brother was firing his first shot at a wild boar in Portugal on Jan 29th 2016 when the breech of his Blaser R 93 exploded ( 7mm RM Magnum).

The Blaser had been bought new in Dec 2014 and checked by a gunsmith in Dec 2015.The amo were new (Winchester Power Point 175 grains).
He is still in Hospital in Lisbon badly injured in the face as a metallic piece went through the jaws.
He is also blind for the rest of his life.
I need to know if someone is aware of recent accidents with this weapon.
Of course we have to wait for the official conclusions of the expert's report before accusing someone,but if we have more informations ,it could help !!!

 

[Wheels]

First, welcome to AH.

Sorry to hear about your brother. All the best to him and his family on his recovery.

Can't help you regarding the Blaser problem. Hopefully someone else here can. If not more internet searches should bring up something. There are stories/photos out there.

All the best.

 

[CAustin]

Oh this is sad to hear that someone has been so badly injured!

 

[Dwight Beagle]

I'm always on the fence in matters such as this. On one hand if a manufacturer has a design flaw in one of their firearms, admitting it could put them out of business due to lawsuits, even though morally they should do so. On the other hand I read on forums where people handload to higher than max pressures and brag about it. And being that I sell firearms I see incredibly stupid things, such as people buying the wrong ammunition.

The truth usually but not always lies somewhere in between. I certainly will not be shooting Blaser rifles if given the chance after reading this thread. Of course I may be foolish for continuing to use my 700 with the Walker trigger but who knows.

As has been alluded to, no one other than family shoots my reloads, I don't allow even close friends to shoot them. It has ticked off a few people but who cares.

 

[Kano]

The fact is, the Blaser R93 systems exhibits a failure mode in which the locking system, when compromised in a particular way, UNLOCKS and sends the bolt back in the shooter's face.

It is NOT a case of failure due to excessive chamber pressure.

This is a design flaw. Blaser always asserts that their locking system can handle pressures that are more than double the standard pressures for the respective calibers. This is true.

But the R93 unlocks under certain circumstances, and Blaser staunchly refuses to acknowledge this.

They refuse to acknowledge that their system is faulty, but they redesign it (R8), modifying it in such a way that the locking problem is addressed, and they do not mention this essential improvement anywhere!

 

[Dietram]

I would like to inform you of a recent accident with a Blaser R 93 very similar to what I have seen on this forum :
my brother was firing his first shot at a wild boar in Portugal on Jan 29th 2016 when the breech of his Blaser R 93 exploded ( 7mm RM Magnum).

The Blaser had been bought new in Dec 2014 and checked by a gunsmith in Dec 2015.The amo were new (Winchester Power Point 175 grains).
He is still in Hospital in Lisbon badly injured in the face as a metallic piece went through the jaws.
He is also blind for the rest of his life.
I need to know if someone is aware of recent accidents with this weapon.
Of course we have to wait for the official conclusions of the expert's report before accusing someone,but if we have more informations ,it could help !!!

Dear JFL,

Sorry to hear about your brother - All the Best to him !

Its true, there are more accidents around the R 93 in Germany, last one occured on May 3rd 2015, 15 h, in Simbach, Lkr. Dingolfing - Landau in Bavaria.

There is a discussion in the German Forum Wild & Hund and you will find details here:

http://www.forum.wildundhund.de/showthread.php?105507-R-93-Unfall-in-Bayern/page19

You will find these 19 pages in
- Waffen & Kaliber
- Forum Langwaffen
- Titel: R 93 Unfall in Bayern,

see
- Page 19
and click on all links, shown in #272.

Two times, Blaser has called back some R 93 in the last years and you will find informations and reports of experts about these calling-back-actions by clicking on the links in #272. The accident of May 3rd 2015 seems to be produced by self loaded ammunition - may be. We have never seen an official explanation.

Best wishes to your brother and you !

Habe-di-Ehre
und
Waidmannsheil

Dietram

 

[Dietram]

Sorry about the shortening of my post #88 by a moderator.

In one point, this shortening is totally uncorrect.
We have seen no official explanation
- only about the accident on May 3rd 2015 in Simbach, Bavaria.

Of course - we know why Blaser did call back the R 93 two times. There are reports of experts and explanations.
These links to these reports of DEVA-experts and Blaser explanations the moderator did cut away.

Here, there are these cut away explanations,
well - all these reports, expert explanations, newsletters are written in German language:

http://www.djz.de/waffen-patronen/574-waffen-rueckruf-aktion-der-blaser-r-93

http://www.r93check.blaser.de/announcement-d.html

http://www.djz.de/waffen-patronen/2359-waffen-blaser-r-8-extremer-belastungstest

A lot of other posts about R 93 - accidents in Germany, you can find in "Wild & Hund" forum:

http://www.forum.wildundhund.de/showthread.php?105507-R-93-Unfall-in-Bayern/page19

See Forum Langwaffen - Titel : R 93 Unfall in Bayern - Page 19 - # 272

The accident on May 3rd 2015, in Simbach, without an official explanation, you can find there:

http://www.jagderleben.de//unfall-auf-schiessstand

Habe-di-Ehre
und
Waidmannsheil

Dietram

 

[JFL]

The fact is, the Blaser R93 systems exhibits a failure mode in which the locking system, when compromised in a particular way, UNLOCKS and sends the bolt back in the shooter's face.

It is NOT a case of failure due to excessive chamber pressure.

This is a design flaw. Blaser always asserts that their locking system can handle pressures that are more than double the standard pressures for the respective calibers. This is true.

But the R93 unlocks under certain circumstances, and Blaser staunchly refuses to acknowledge this.

They refuse to acknowledge that their system is faulty, but they redesign it (R8), modifying it in such a way that the locking problem is addressed, and they do not mention this essential improvement anywhere!

 

[JFL]

I would like to thank all of you for these informations.
I like the way KANO explains the way such an accident could happen:
but unfortunatly,we have no real proof of what he demonstrate to back
our file !
unless you have more to tell ?

 

[KTP]

I would like to inform you of a recent accident with a Blaser R 93 very similar to what I have seen on this forum :
my brother was firing his first shot at a wild boar in Portugal on Jan 29th 2016 when the breech of his Blaser R 93 exploded ( 7mm RM Magnum).

The Blaser had been bought new in Dec 2014 and checked by a gunsmith in Dec 2015.The amo were new (Winchester Power Point 175 grains).
He is still in Hospital in Lisbon badly injured in the face as a metallic piece went through the jaws.
He is also blind for the rest of his life.
I need to know if someone is aware of recent accidents with this weapon.
Of course we have to wait for the official conclusions of the expert's report before accusing someone,but if we have more informations ,it could help !!!

Hallo I am new here.
Have been using many rifles and caliber for hunting, was using Blaser R93 for 20 years. The only problem I find with European made rifles using US made ammo are higher pressure due to bigger diametere bullets. European made 9,3 bullets are normally 9,26-27 mm US made 9,30-31 mm. Can be smart to check the measurement of bullets and barrel before shooting new rifle or rounds, its done in no time with a cheep little micrometer. The last 10 years I use RWS and Norma ammo in the Blaser and only German calibers. Excellent rifle that made rifle hunting too easy, today I am a traditional bow hunter.

 

[CAustin]

Welcome to AH KTP!

 

[KTP]

Welcome to AH KTP!

Thanks! Look like a good internet page.

 

[sestoppelman]

Hallo I am new here.
Have been using many rifles and caliber for hunting, was using Blaser R93 for 20 years. The only problem I find with European made rifles using US made ammo are higher pressure due to bigger diametere bullets. European made 9,3 bullets are normally 9,26-27 mm US made 9,30-31 mm. Can be smart to check the measurement of bullets and barrel before shooting new rifle or rounds, its done in no time with a cheep little micrometer. The last 10 years I use RWS and Norma ammo in the Blaser and only German calibers. Excellent rifle that made rifle hunting too easy, today I am a traditional bow hunter.

The miniscule differences in bullet diameter would have zero bearing on anything unless a bore was very much undersized and the bullets unusually over sized.

 

[KTP]

The miniscule differences in bullet diameter would have zero bearing on anything unless a bore was very much undersized and the bullets unusually over sized.

A rifle man are free to put what ever he wants in his rifle, my experience are Blaser dont like over sized bullets. I know some of the faces shown on the photos here are from .30 rounds fired from 7 mm rifles. I remember the fresh storys after some of this accidents referred to happen. Today same storys are told very different from the original? Its hard to find any "idiot" prof rifle lock, one have to understand the ekstrem pressure one release 4" from the face. In the industry 1/10 of low chamber pressure are rated as dangerous high pressure.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I know some of the faces shown on the photos here are from .30 rounds fired from 7 mm rifles. I remember the fresh storys after some of this accidents referred to happen.

I'm curious as to how you know this about .30 cal bullets in 7mm rifles. I build my own bullets and made the mistake of seating a .30 cal bullet into a 7x57 case. I wanted to make sure the round would feed in the rifle and the bolt would only go about half way forward, nowhere close enough to then actually fully close the bolt. Thus it was impossible to fire even if I wanted to.

So it was the right case with the wrong sized bullet. I can't imagine that trying to put a .308 Win, a somewhat similar sized case, would result in anything different. I can only imagine this would be worse or at least no better with a case not close to being similar in size.

 

[KTP]

I'm curious as to how you know this about .30 cal bullets in 7mm rifles. I build my own bullets and made the mistake of seating a .30 cal bullet into a 7x57 case. I wanted to make sure the round would feed in the rifle and the bolt would only go about half way forward, nowhere close enough to then actually fully close the bolt. Thus it was impossible to fire even if I wanted to.

So it was the right case with the wrong sized bullet. I can't imagine that trying to put a .308 Win, a somewhat similar sized case, would result in anything different. I can only imagine this would be worse or at least no better with a case not close to being similar in size.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/arch...cle_f8c96095-d551-5700-b503-1de3bb53103e.html

 

[KTP]

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/arch...cle_f8c96095-d551-5700-b503-1de3bb53103e.html

There are many ways to make a bomb, the most harmless of this mistakes are seen in the garbage bin at the shooting range all over, the world famous ".30 idiot" 308 win from a 3006 rifle.

 

[sestoppelman]

I have seen 9.3 bullets that measured .365 whereas most made here at least, measure .366. I have never seen one larger than that. If a Blaser wont handle a .366 bullet without issues, there is something seriously wrong with that rifle.