Rifle rich and pistol poor...

[freefall]

My kimber compact has never stuttered. A Colt's Officers has been nothing but trouble.
To quote Clint Smith, "I'm an old guy and I like my old gun."

 

[CJW]

A .380? That's like hunting buffalo with a .22

Regularly produces around 12+" of penetration in ballistics gel with expanding bullets. The average male torso is what maybe 10-11" deep? Seems adequate for close defense situations.

 

[shark_za]

When a guy says he has never had a malfunction with a 1911 you need to take it with a pinch of salt.
There will always be some reason why all those jams happened and were not the pistols fault.

Competition is not the same as self defence, you can get hits on target under stress with a Glock in its stock form but I always change my striker spring to the red heavier one and then fit the minus connector. All factory parts, no fancy light competition stuff here.
It makes it a little heavier at first and less crisp on the break but is very reliable with any primer that will go off. That is the main thing.

Oh and mine are in .40

Regularly produces around 12+" of penetration in ballistics gel with expanding bullets. The average male torso is what maybe 10-11" deep? Seems adequate for close defense situations.

Gel is not the same as flesh and bone.
And if a 380 expands it does not go that deep at all.

 

[CJW]

Gel is not the same as flesh and bone.
And if a 380 expands it does not go that deep at all.

I understand that flesh and bone is different but 12+" after passing through multiple layers of denim is good enough for me in a public setting where over penetration is an issue. It really doesn't even need to penetrate that far. Not only that but my lcp can be carried with the right t-shirt or untucket button up without worry of printing because of its size. A gun you'll actually carry is a pretty important consideration.

 

[CoElkHunter]

There's nothing wrong with glock triggers. They are 5 ish pounds, a little take up. Hit the wall then break. If you have good fundamentals you can and should be able to shoot any gun well. If I can teach cops to shoot them well trust me anyone can.

Cheers

Yeah, I'm not changing out my factory Glock triggers. As stock, it's a combat handgun not a race pistol or for target shooting.

 

[saswart]

Boy I like these discussions. The reasons for and against are like preferences for cars, rugby/NFL teams etc. warning, lots of irony coming up...

My gripe with some reasons against whatever manufacturer...

Reasons 1 - it does not fit my hand / aim to high etc. If you used this type of reasoning as a farmer every time you climbed in a tractor, then you would end ploughing the fields with a Mercedes (o sorry a BMW, damn, sorry I meant Ford/Dodge for us American readers - this is the same with the guns, CZ, Glock, Springfield etc.) because you just fit so much better in a sedan's seat than in a hard tractor's seat, or pickup v sportscar. The steering wheel is perfect for my hands...

Reason 2 - a 1911 9mm penetration is way better than all Glocks / CZ's.... Ok let that one sink in a bit, sure the inch longer barrel may have an impact on velocity.

Reason 3 - I hate plastic guns, prefer metal traditional guns. But then that same person has a GRS fitted 6.5 Creedmoor...

Reason 4 - the hyperbole / circular reasoning person (most common of all pistol/revolver people)

- I cannot carry (EDC) a gun, but earlier in the discussion, mention was made he needs one for SD...yeah you only need a SD HG when you are in your home at night on the nightstand...
- Ok I will carry, but it must be small to fit in my trouser pocket, and have 15 rounds, and fit my hand, and shoot comfortable, and have a reflex sight.

Reason 5 - a whatever is more accurate than your whatever
Sure a Glock 17/CZ P07 would seem more accurate than say a G43, but again, what is your use. The one is easier to shoot, thus "more accurate". In my opinion a SD/EDC handgun, all of them are accurate, it depends on the shooter and the practice time (reason 6) you put in. Remember your mustang will be more accurate in parking than your JD tractor.

The more you practice, the more accurate you (oh sorry again, the gun) tends to become

 

[503]

There are a few companies that I would trust to build a 1911 if I had to have one. Wilson, Jardines etc. The problem with new 1911s typically is that they were not designed to be mass produced by machines.

They were designed to be hand built by people who knew how to fit parts. Parts with differing tolerances don't play well with each other which is why one will work fine and another from the same company is a pos. That's also why the old 1911s from the wars and stuff work great.

And from a strictly combat point of view a manual safety has no place on a fighting pistol. Browning added one at the request of the army. I know there are some good pistols with them, HK, FN etc. Very few and I mean very few people in LE or military would advise for a manual safety on a pistol.

As for concealed carry a good belt that won't crush is paramount. Daltec Force makes some great stuff. NSR makes a great IWB holster, but I find that method uncomfortable. Now I either carry on my ankle in a Galco ankle glove or on my strong side in an OWB holster with my shirt covering it.

I use bravo concealment. The holster sits very tight against my side and has very little printing and is well hidden.

I also have a Kahr PM 9 that is great in a pocket holster, if you're looking for a super small 9mm that's a great option. They are excellent pistol.

Cheers

 

[Jfet]

 

[Forrest Halley]

I prefer the M&P, but I'm coming around to this XDm. 22 round magazines and 35 round magazines interest me. The end point will be how it points naturally. Of course I have high standards for point ability coming off J and K frame revolvers. Nothing to me is more automatic than a model 10 2" barrel. Sadly the capacity is just not there anymore in these civil times we find ourselves.

Ooh Glocks vs. 19..2011's this oughta be good.

Paul Howe made an interesting point about the external hammer... it's great until something gets in that channel. All the rough and ready folks are now using Glock 19's.

I don't think anything shoots faster accurately than a 2011.

 

[B0MBOY]

I’d heartily recommend the cz 75 or one of it’s compact variants like the P-01. They are all Super accurate and reliable all metal handguns. I routinely hit metal silhouettes at 50 yards with all of mine, regardless if I’m using the full, compact, or subcompact.

alternatively if you want a 45 with some ooomph I’d recommend the magnum research bfr in 45-70. Supremely accurate, and plenty of stopping power, there’s nothing better for stopping a charging meth head.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I recommend an Heckler & Koch USP .45

This is what I personally EDC- A Webley & Scott Model 1908 in .32 ACP

 

[Inline6]

Yeah, I'm not changing out my factory Glock triggers. As stock, it's a combat handgun not a race pistol or for target shooting.

There is more to it than what you are saying, if the case of actually need to use it in self defense. Having a different trigger could play against you when lawyers get involved.

That is personal choice, can a stock trigger preform like an aftermarket? Will it enhance your ability to shoot tighter groups and put more rounds on target quicker? Will you have to answer for it if that time comes? Then the old addage judged by 12 instead of carried by 6 comes into play. Just know advantage my come at a price.

 

[AB2506]

I don't know why I try to fill every rifle niche in my arsenal, yet at the same time only own one pistol--a measly 380 Keltech! I really ought to remedy that, since I am far more likely to get charged by a felon than a Cape buffalo in the grand scheme of things. Well...I don't want to piddle around trading up along the way, so I ask: "WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND I GET TO CRY ONCE, BE DONE WITH IT, AND BE COMPLETELY SATISFIED?" (anything 45 cal. and down)

BTW, I want it to be ACCURATE

A quality 1911 will fulfil your needs.

 

[Tanks]

There is more to it than what you are saying, if the case of actually need to use it in self defense. Having a different trigger could play against you when lawyers get involved.
...

That is total FUD. People mention it all the time. If a shoot is justified then modifications do not matter. Accidental shootings are a different story and in that case again when one shoots someone accidentally with a stock or replacement trigger does not matter.

For the record my factory CCW has a crisp 3 lbs trigger and the Sig P938 is a bit heavier.

 

[Tanks]

Paul Howe made an interesting point about the external hammer... it's great until something gets in that channel. All the rough and ready folks are now using Glock 19's.

...

SWAT in LA and OC sheriff departments are allowed to transition to 2011s, STI Staccato to be exact.

 

[Jfet]

 

[503]

Idk why you would purposefully pick a gun with a manual safety as a duty weapon. 1911s are approved for use by my dept. And many around me and I can count on one hand the number of guys who carry them.

Any quality modern striker pistol can do anything a 1911 can do at 1/4 the price.

 

[Tanks]

Regularly produces around 12+" of penetration in ballistics gel with expanding bullets. The average male torso is what maybe 10-11" deep? Seems adequate for close defense situations.

Look at FBI tests on denim etc..

 

[Inline6]

That is total FUD. People mention it all the time. If a shoot is justified then modifications do not matter. Accidental shootings are a different story and in that case again when one shoots someone accidentally with a stock or replacement trigger does not matter.

For the record my factory CCW has a crisp 3 lbs trigger and the Sig P938 is a bit heavier.

I said could, did not say would. It is only information. The state in which you live will play the biggest part on how that is handled. I'm sure you have been to enough classes/training that this has come up before in conversations.

 

[503]

Look at FBI tests on denim etc..

I know something else that also gets 12 inches of penetration....... sorry I had to.