Rifle rich and pistol poor...

[Berettaco]

The 2 piece guide rod broke in half and locked the gun up. Sent it back to Kimber again, they fixed it and sent a letter with it saying it broke because the gun wasn't properly lubed. I sold it for $300, bought a glock 30 and it works just fine. Kimber can f off.

That’s terrible - I’ve never had a problem with a kimber so haven’t dealt with their customer service.

 

[freefall]

That’s terrible - I’ve never had a problem with a kimber so haven’t dealt with their customer service.

I have. I was dumb enough to buy a Kimber Solo. Their customer service was grudging and ungracious, to put it charitably.

 

[503]

It was a brand new gun too. Didn't work with the factory mag, springfield, Wilson or chip McCormacks. They did some stuff to the feed ramp and sent it back. Then that happened. I've shot and seen people shoot some ridiculously dirty/ un lubed pistols and there's no way that would cause a failure like that. The guide rod is supposed to be dry anyway.

I never shot it after I got it back the second time. Never would have trusted it. #megafail.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The 2 piece guide rod broke in half and locked the gun up. Sent it back to Kimber again, they fixed it and sent a letter with it saying it broke because the gun wasn't properly lubed. I sold it for $300, bought a glock 30 and it works just fine. Kimber can f off.

"because the gun wasn't properly lubed" Wow! Really? I ran a Glock 21 for probably four years and almost never lubed it. I learned later I should have. Six specific lube points. But, it never failed me on the combat course or when qualifying.

 

[503]

Yea, I was pissed. It was almost a thousand dollars. But now I know to avoid kimber like the plague so lessor learned I guess.

I carry 21 on duty. They are badass, absolute war machines. Put a 1911 head to head against a 21 in terms of malfunctions and the 21 will win. Every time.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Yea, I was pissed. It was almost a thousand dollars. But now I know to avoid kimber like the plague so lessor learned I guess.

I carry 21 on duty. They are badass, absolute war machines. Put a 1911 head to head against a 21 in terms of malfunctions and the 21 will win. Every time.

The 21 is great until someone gets the idea to shoot .45LC lead bullets through it. Then it becomes a hand grenade. Always seems to be the same MO: 255 grain LRNFP.

 

[503]

It takes a ton of those to cause any noticeable buildup. Clean every 100 or so and it's fine. We shoot them at the range once in a while since that was all we could get with the shortage.

Cheers

 

[Forrest Halley]

It takes a ton of those to cause any noticeable buildup. Clean every 100 or so and it's fine. We shoot them at the range once in a while since that was all we could get with the shortage.

Cheers

We had three of them blow up at steel shoots so I'm thinking it was probably the combination of clays and the big bullet chasing a mouse fart, but what do I know.

 

[503]

Maybe it depends how soft the lead is. I've heard it's not good to use lead in them. Or maybe if the bullet had more lube or a coating maybe

 

[Forrest Halley]

Maybe it depends how soft the lead is. I've heard it's not good to use lead in them. Or maybe if the bullet had more lube or a coating maybe

Its all about Brinell hardness and it said specifically not to use lead in the factory polygonal rifled barrels. Typically the bullets for the .452 .45 LC are softer than the .451 so they obturate in the old guns and meet the rifling. This can cause leading in those polygonal barrels very quickly and combined with the faster powders, it works out to higher pressures quickly.

 

[Bonk]

Long post/rant. Continue at your own risk.

I read this whole thread and it was a tough read. Lot's of opinions touted as facts. Well since we're throwing around opinions masqueraded as facts here's my two cents. First of all, congrats to @steve white on his new CZ. Excellent choice. A modern reliable pistol in an adequate caliber.

My opinion #1. Revolvers most certainly do jam. It doesn't take much crud and junk to clog up the mechanism. Despite conventional wisdom the reality is a modern double action revolver has more moving parts than a typical modern semiauto pistol. They do break and they do malfunction. I've owned enough over the years to know this first hand.

My opinion #2. Glocks can and do malfunction. I've owned a bunch of them and still have a few. Excellent firearms but they're just as prone to malfunction as any other modern firearm. Yes, they're extremely reliable and I'd trust my life to one but they are NOT indestructible and 100% reliable as some would have you believe. The fact is most modern plastic fantastics are the equal of Glocks in almost every way. Glock set the standard but they aren't alone at the top of the heap anymore.

My opinion #3.1911's have been defending people and winning wars for 111 years. The 1911's that are problematic are usually cheap imitations built offshore or they're being limp wristed. Condemning all 1911's because your Philippine built $300 knockoff isn't reliable is like condemning all plastic fantastics because a KelTec wasn't reliable. Having said that almost all of us can anecdotally tell of a brand name 1911 that had problems. So what? A brief search of the interweb will yield the same results with just about every brand/model gun ever made. Including the almighty Glock.

My opinion #4. About 3 or 4 generations of men were first introduced to handguns via the M1911. Somehow they managed to get past the incredible recoil of 45ACP and the absurdly intricate manual of arms necessary to effective employ the pistol. It appears these two obstacles are vastly too difficult for the modern low-T millennial to overcome.

My opinion #5. People discuss handgun accuracy in a defensive/combat pistol like it matters. It doesn't. A 1" group at 25 yards with a match grade centerfire target pistol is phenomenally good and people pay a LOT of money to get that kind of result. Let's say for the sake of discussion an off the rack production pistol of any flavor can only achieve a 10" group at 25 yards. Most will do a lot better than that but stay with me for a minute. The math tells us that at 5 yards the difference between the two is less than 2 inches. A 1/5 inch group (actually at least a .357/356 group if they're all in the same hole, but you get the idea) vs a 2 inch group to be precise. At 2-3 yards, the real distance of most SD shootings, the difference in 'accuracy' is even more irrelevant. I'll say it again, unless you're involved in bullseye competition or handgun hunting, handgun accuracy for all intents and purposes means nothing. All modern handguns are way more accurate than necessary for most purposes. Even the cheap ones.

My opinion #6. Brand X guns aim too high, or too low, or whatever other excuse you need to justify why you can't hit what you're aiming at. Guns don't aim at all. Humans do. Adjust accordingly. It's not that hard. Also, back to My Opinion #5, in a SD situation it doesn't matter. If you're aiming center mass +/- a few inches doesn't matter. Dead is dead whether you hit the upper ventricle or the lower one. If you didn't hit the ventricle that's on you.

My opinion #7: Trigger this, trigger that. If any of you are harboring fantasies of trigger control during an SD situation you're not being honest with yourself. Yes, training, repetition and muscle memory matters. A lot. However, in all likelihood you're still gonna be jerking the trigger no matter how much money you spent to get the perfect 3lb no creep breaks like glass trigger. An experienced shooter may be jerking it less than a new shooter but perfect trigger control when your life is in immediate danger is a fantasy.

My opinion #8. What government agencies use (military and LEO) doesn't carry much weight with me. A particular group may choose a certain weapon but almost all the time money was a consideration and certain brands (Glock) subsidize the hell out their products to get the Gubmint to use them. That doesn't mean their choices aren't quality weapons but it does mean that functionality wasn't the only criteria. Plus, I've been around the government for long enough to know that kickbacks and corruption are part and parcel of the Swamp. Glocks are a great choice for the high speed low drag warriors but so are a lot of other very similar weapons. I absolutely promise you their selection of the Glock wasn't 100% based on merit and merit alone. That's not how the Feds work.

FTR, my opinions are based on 50 years of handgun ownership and many, many thousands of rounds. I've also owned well over 100 handguns in almost every caliber and configuration discussed in this thread. I still own more than my fair share. I've also competed (and won) with revolvers and semi autos (bullseye and speed events). I'm also a firearms instructor (rifle and pistol). So what. These are only my opinions based on my experience. YMMV.

 

[Christian Davis]

I have had my Glock 19 for 12 years, love it and have had no problems.

 

[steve white]

Those are two of the firearms on my CCW permit as I mentioned above. CZ P-01 is a very accurate and fine firearm. Dry fire the double action pull a lot.

Dry fire a lot--my finger pad is sore as we speak!

 

[steve white]

Well, most people do end up with a drawer or two full of holsters.

Trying to avoid you having to endure that--I just ordered a Kramer horsehide cross draw, model specific of course, and sized for my two Filson belts. Thanks, Midwest for the heads up. About to order Garrett clip holder. But now my wife wants something!!!!!

 

[Safari Dave]

So far, for me at least, the Sig 365 (with 12 round magazine) is as close as I have been able to come to concealed carry perfection.



But you will also need:

- A good 1911 in .45 ACP (Wilson Combat, Vickers, Brown, Baer, Colt, Kimber)
- At least a couple of Glocks (19, 17, 20)
- A quality .357 Revolver (Colt Python, S&W 686)
- One to hunt with (In my case a S&W 629 in .44 Mag) - A Glock 10mm would also work
- A "pocket pistol" (but carried in a pocket holster) - maybe your Kel-Tec will fill this niche (I use a Ruger LCP)

 

[freefall]

Who's Les Brown? Love-child of Ed Brown and Les Baer?

 

[Safari Dave]

That's what I get for trying to think off the top of my head instead of looking it up.

But, if there was a love child of those guys, I bet he could build a great pistol!

(now that men can get pregnant)



And... everyone needs a Ruger Mark (II, III, IV, whatever) in 22 LR.

 

[freefall]

Ya know, I had misforgotten that men can get pregnant nowadays! Thanks for reminding me. nlm

 

[stk]

The 2 piece guide rod broke in half and locked the gun up. Sent it back to Kimber again, they fixed it and sent a letter with it saying it broke because the gun wasn't properly lubed. I sold it for $300, bought a glock 30 and it works just fine. Kimber can f off.

I had a similar experience with a Kimber rifle. It was manufactured wrong by their own admission and wouldn’t feed (or shoot better than 6 MOA), but the best they were willing to do was sell me a new rifle at a discount since I wasn’t the original owner. Their customer service is abysmal.

 

[Safari Dave]

My experience with Kimber has been good, but they need to "step it up" on customer service, based on what I have heard from others.

They can turn the tide, but they are about to be regulated to "Taurus" status, if they don't.

Bergara (who I like also, and deal with personally, quite a bit more) is about to regulate them to a second-tier status if they don't, drastically, assume a "customer-is-right" policy.