Bullet suggestion for heart / lung shot on Elephant ?

[Happy Myles]

Hunting elephant over decades i have successfully used only solids and feel no reason to change

 

[Riflecrank]

A shorter solid is inherently more stable.
Maybe why there is nothing to be gained by using a 500-gr CEB Safari Solid versus the 450-grainer,
which is thus far champ of the .458 Safari Solids.
I must note that the .700" NP 400-gr.458 Safari Solid has not been tested at .458 WIN MAGA load levels.
It has been shown to penetrate 8 to 9 feet of water buffalo and cape buffalo, lengthwise in body.
It needs to be tested on elephant.

It is amazing that the old RN FMJ non-solids did as well as they did on elephant skulls.
I think that the tail slap on bone steered them and kept them from veering off course, sometimes.
Likewise a roundnose is good at penetrating a stack of boards, dry wood.
That is about the only thing it is better at than an FN truly-solid solid.

 

[Beck]

In 2010 I took an end of season buffalo hunt in the Zambezi valley. When I got to camp my guide said they had 1 tuskless tag left, and seeing how I was the last hunter of the year, November, they offered me the tag. All I had for ammo was Barnes TSX for my .375H&H. During my buffalo hunt we crossed paths with a tuskless, from about 30 yards my first shot was just a bit above her eyes, she fell on her butt, I put 3 in her chest, she died right there. Now, I do not recommend this to anyone, and on my next elephant hunt this September, I will once again be taking Barnes Banded solids, which performed wonderfully well with a frontal brain shot on my last elephant. So yes, Barnes TSX will work, just not the 'idea' situation, and a situation I would strive to avoid in the future. Lots of great solids out there to choose from.

How did the bullets fired into the chest look, did you recover them?

 

[Longwalker]

I am curious about an earlier comment describing the Woodleigh Hydro solids as a "limited penetration" solid. My understanding was that the design accomplished two things compare to flat nosed all-brass solids - deeper penetration while at the same time causing more tissue damage because of a wider permanent wound channel. Is this not correct?

 

[Andrew62]

How did the bullets fired into the chest look, did you recover them?

I spent hours today looking for any recovered bullets from that trip and I cannot find any. Knowing I used TSX I sure wish I’d have luck finding them.

 

[michael458]

I am curious about an earlier comment describing the Woodleigh Hydro solids as a "limited penetration" solid. My understanding was that the design accomplished two things compare to flat nosed all-brass solids - deeper penetration while at the same time causing more tissue damage because of a wider permanent wound channel. Is this not correct?

The Woodleigh Hydro and the North Fork CPS non-expanding version are considered "Limited Penetration Solids"........ They are not designed to be deep diving deep penetration solids, such as the North Fork Solid and CEB #13 Solids. Two different concepts.

You are correct, the Limited Penetration solids does cause more tissue damage, however does not penetrate as deep. Why? Let me see if I can explain this so it is easier to understand........... Both of these have more surface area that contacts tissue and or medium. The Cup Point design on both will present more surface area in contact with tissue or medium. John, the previous owner of North Fork was a good friend of mine and he explained it like this "The larger surface area of the CPS fools the medium or tissue into thinking the bullet is bigger than it really is". For instance, what happens when you hit tissue with a 65% meplat Solid as opposed to an 80% meplat Solid? The 65% meplat will penetrate much deeper than the 80% meplat, but will not disrupt as much tissue as the 80% meplat.The larger meplat will destroy more tissue, but not able to penetrate as deep.

You can see this in this example;

The Woodleigh Hydro is exactly the same, it presents a larger surface area than a deep diving solid, it is designed to disrupt more tissue, but by doing so, cannot penetrate as deep.

Now two of the very best designs for Deep and Straight line penetration Solids are the Cutting Edge #13 Solid with a 67% Meplat and the North Fork Solid at 68% Meplat. These are designed to give the deepest penetration of any solids out there. 65% Meplat is required for Terminal Stability during penetration, both CEB and North Fork exceed 65%. Yes, a larger meplat would mean more tissue destruction, but less depth of penetration, and larger meplat size than 68% begins to be a problem when feeding properly designed control feed bolt guns, Winchester M70s. We have tested up to 90% meplat size, but that won't feed/function in anything. Going above 70% meplat starts to give issues.

Here are the Deep Divers;

Even a much smaller Deep Diving Solid out penetrates the larger Limited Penetration Solids.......

I hope I explained this good enough to answer your question?

 

[Altitude sickness]

I was prepared to use Northfork cup point solids from my .505 Gibbs on this tuskless hunt. But my PH preferred the CEB loads I also had with me and they had the same Poi.

At approximately 17 yards I had a clear side brain shot, but there was a fair amount of brush and my PH whispered for me to take the heart lung shot. So I took the offhand shot. The bullet entered just forward of the armpit. If you look at the top leaf, you’ll see the bullet hole.

The bullet went through the heart lung into the other leg and she dropped immediately. We walked around and put one in the center of her chest. Neither bullets were recovered.