Remington closing plant in Ilion NY after 207 years

[BeeMaa]

Should have know better than to feed the trolls.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Should have know better than to feed the trolls.

Someone had to do it.

 

[revturbo9967]

Well, let's look at the business decisions before the collapse. Taking over those other gun companies when Remington itself was on the ropes was dumb. And the crap they put out wasn't helping. Turning the 870 into Express trash was disgraceful. Just the other day I talked to a farmer who made the mistake of buying one and, like almost everyone else who owns an 870 Express, he couldn't get it to eject. He wrote Remington and they sent him instructions on how to polish the chamber. Yeah, HE'S supposed to do the repairs to make THEIR gun work? Staff in the gun shop have to work hard to keep those Express guns from rusting on the shelf. Get one wet duck hunting and your black gun just turned red. Remington already makes one cheap junker pump shotgun that no one will buy (877 I think it's called ... I've only seen a handful on the shelf). Why mess up a model that had a great reputation? To make a fast buck selling junk. And we all know about the "Remington moment" that plagued the Model 700 for decades. How long did it take them to make that gun safe? The decline in quality of Marlin products under Remington ownership is well known. Or maybe it's just malicious rumor? Then they buy out Montana Rifle Company's barrel making business and ship it to Alabama because that state made them "tax incentive" bribes Montana wouldn't agree to. But they never built the plant in Alabama. I understand the stuff is still sitting down there gathering rust. I'm told they also acquired the rest of Montana Rifle but unsure if it's true. Wouldn't surprise me. The new Montana Rifle Company's quality control issues and terrible support are fast ruining a great reputation the Sipes built from scratch.

I don't expect Remington to survive in Georgia either. The company has gone too far down the toilet. Too much competition from other gun makers that haven't made the mistake of getting too big too fast. Only a large government defense contract will save them and I don't see that happening any time soon.

And all of this has absolutely nothing to do with the reasons on why the company is moving. Stop yelling at the clouds.

 

[Altitude sickness]

if possible, these companies should be supported for making the move to a more tax/firearm friendly state.

I’m not a Weatherby fan. But for that reason alone I would like to purchase one made in Wyoming. It took huge cojones to pull stakes from hostile California

I would imagine Remington stayed this long due to nostalgia and the cost of moving or building huge machinery.

Perhaps, instead of trying to survive as a behemoth company. It’s better to re tool as a quality smaller (quality) company in a firearm friendly state.

 

[RR 314]

Right. Let's blame it on the unions and liberals. That outfit has been under shitshow management for decades. The poster child for screwy corporate decisions. I'm a business historian who'd love to get his hands on the company records. More drama than a soap opera script.

I have a feeling you were one of those guys who posted a tear choked video on their social media pages stating they were moving to Canada when Trump was elected. Well, at least you followed through with it. Kudos.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I have a very close relationship with many of the major firearm manufacturers in the northeast. The only reason they haven’t all completely moved away is strictly financial. Beleive me, if they could leave, they would.

Yes, I was wondering why Savage is still in MA after that state recently passed a slew of anti gun legislation? I guess financial reasons might be the answer?

 

[revturbo9967]

Yes, I was wondering why Savage is still in MA after that state recently passed a slew of anti gun legislation? I guess financial reasons might be the answer?

Moving the equipment is next to impossible for some of these manufacturers.

The bigger issue is talent. A company moving its manufacturing processes need to have the manpower in the new location. With the talent pool of skilled trade workers shrinking rapidly, many shops just can’t move. S&Ws machining is staying put, and not making the trip to Maryville if that means anything.

 

[TTundra]

Stop yelling at the clouds.

Perfect analogy....

 

[CoElkHunter]

They already are coming with Timney triggers. Only issue is they are a fixed NON adjustable trigger especially made for Remington. I already have a box full of them. Every customer that has bought a new Remington has had me install a Trigger Tech in the last 2 months.

Well, I was hoping Rem Arms wouldn't have been making a big mistake like that so soon being a new company and all. I'm really rooting for them to be successful and I hope they learn from this and move on to make quality firearms.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

And all of this has absolutely nothing to do with the reasons on why the company is moving. Stop yelling at the clouds.

Because blaming the govt and unions is the excuse the CEO throws out to the press, we are supposed to believe it? Reality is they make poor products in a highly competitive market. He's not going to admit to that. Stock price would fall off the edge of the earth overnight if he did.

Seems adding the non-adjustable Timney trigger idea was more of the same poor management decisions. Nothing has changed. I don't see how a gun manufacturer on the ropes will be able to afford packing up the plant and moving it to Georgia. Maybe Weatherby could make that kind of move but I don't think they were financially on the ropes. I would sell my Remington stock if I had any ... and I don't. They won't last. Damn shame but management is to blame.

 

[revturbo9967]

Because blaming the govt and unions is the excuse the CEO throws out to the press, we are supposed to believe it? Reality is they make poor products in a highly competitive market. He's not going to admit to that. Stock price would fall off the edge of the earth overnight if he did.

Seems adding the non-adjustable Timney trigger idea was more of the same poor management decisions. Nothing has changed. I don't see how a gun manufacturer on the ropes will be able to afford packing up the plant and moving it to Georgia. Maybe Weatherby could make that kind of move but I don't think they were financially on the ropes. I would sell my Remington stock if I had any ... and I don't. They won't last. Damn shame but management is to blame.

Again, everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with the reason they’re moving.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Well, I was hoping Rem Arms wouldn't have been making a big mistake like that so soon being a new company and all. I'm really rooting for them to be successful and I hope they learn from this and move on to make quality firearms.

I will say this!
We have sold about a dozen of the new model Senderos in 7 Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag. Everyone of them has shot under 3/4 inch groups with Barnes ammo.
160 TSX in 7mag and 180 TTSX in 300.
Some are sub MOA! Very impressed with the accuracy. Also the 308 SPS AAC. 16 and 20 inch guns are all under 3/4 inch groups with 168 Barnes ammo.
Barnes is the go to Ammo in this part of state for most hunters.

The non adjustable Timney trigger I assume was typical liability reasons after all the law suits from previous years.
I was hoping they would have went to Trigger Tech triggers like Christensen and Weatherby has done.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Again, everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with the reason they’re moving.

And you know this because ... ?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I will say this!
We have sold about a dozen of the new model Senderos in 7 Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag. Everyone of them has shot under 3/4 inch groups with Barnes ammo.
160 TSX in 7mag and 180 TTSX in 300.
Some are sub MOA! Very impressed with the accuracy. Also the 308 SPS AAC. 16 and 20 inch guns are all under 3/4 inch groups with 168 Barnes ammo.
Barnes is the go to Ammo in this part of state for most hunters.

The non adjustable Timney trigger I assume was typical liability reasons after all the law suits from previous years.
I was hoping they would have went to Trigger Tech triggers like Christensen and Weatherby has done.

What twist are they using? My groups with 168 gr Barnes are not great. Believe it or not I do better with 165 gr Partitions and they aren't known for great groups. Maybe something I can fix?

 

[jpr9954]

Because blaming the govt and unions is the excuse the CEO throws out to the press, we are supposed to believe it? Reality is they make poor products in a highly competitive market. He's not going to admit to that. Stock price would fall off the edge of the earth overnight if he did.

Seems adding the non-adjustable Timney trigger idea was more of the same poor management decisions. Nothing has changed. I don't see how a gun manufacturer on the ropes will be able to afford packing up the plant and moving it to Georgia. Maybe Weatherby could make that kind of move but I don't think they were financially on the ropes. I would sell my Remington stock if I had any ... and I don't. They won't last. Damn shame but management is to blame.

There is no Remington or RemArms stock. The only US consumer firearms companies that are publicly traded are Sturm, Ruger (RGR) and Smith & Wesson Brands (SWBI). You could add in Vista Outdoor, Olin, and Ammo Inc. if you want to include ammunition manufacturers.

Outside the US, Colt CZ Group is traded on the Prague exchange and Taurus Arms SA is traded on Brasil, Bolsa, Balcão in Sao Paulo. FN is owned by the government of Wallonia in Belgium and Beretta is private.

 

[rblum]

Right. Let's blame it on the unions and liberals. That outfit has been under shitshow management for decades. The poster child for screwy corporate decisions. I'm a business historian who'd love to get his hands on the company records. More drama than a soap opera script.

I think that you nailed it. The company failed to update its plant over many years. Easy to blame it on “liberals” and other bogeymen. I call BS on their claims. They will get some tax breaks and incentives at the expense of Georgia taxpayers. My prediction is that this move will not solve their management problems and they will be gone in 20 years.

 

[RR 314]

And you know this because ... ?

Why do you assert they are moving? What is your rebuttal to the statement from Remington? Man you are tanking Remington Arms stock with all this negativity. . Perhaps you should short it—if it existed.

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

What twist are they using? My groups with 168 gr Barnes are not great. Believe it or not I do better with 165 gr Partitions and they aren't known for great groups. Maybe something I can fix?

7mag is 1:8
308 and 300 win mag 1:10

 

[revturbo9967]

And you know this because ... ?

Because I can read…?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Because I can read…?

And who is writing what you're reading?

Check this out and tell me management isn't at least partly to blame.

How America’s Oldest Gun Maker Went Bankrupt: A Financial Engineering Mystery (Published 2019)

When a secretive private equity firm bought Remington, sales were strong and the future bright. A decade later, the company couldn’t escape its debts.

www.nytimes.com

Why did Remington agree to take out the fateful 2012 loan when the company was making money? Of course, they were making money hand over fist during the crazy Obama era gun/ammo hoarding pandemic ... which anyone with half a brain could see was a bubble about to burst. But apparently not the people who ran Remington. Ironic that a gun buying panic promoted by the gun manufacturers turned around to bite one of the biggest players in the arse.