Reintroduce Grizzlies!

[sestoppelman]

There was some talk recently about bringing griz back into WA state as well, but I know there was quite an uproar so I dont know what became of it.

 

[JimP]

I live in the west.
I detest the federal government’s mismanagement of our resources.

I can give you a forum for Utah hunters and fishermen.

You'd get ran off the forum for even suggesting tthe states take over what is now Federal lands

 

[Neophyte]

I can give you a forum for Utah hunters and fishermen.

You'd get ran off the forum for even suggesting tthe states take over what is now Federal lands

I know it’s not a popular opinion but it’s mine and I have my reasons.

 

[colorado]

I do live in the West too. No mentioned getting rid of grizzlies when I lived in Montana, they were part of life. I guess Coloradans are two wimpy to deal.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I'd like to see Grizzlies introduced back into the Blue Range primitive area of east central Arizona. An area they used to inhabit, before the last one was killed in 1935.

Brent,
You might call bullshit on this but I was hunting on the edge of the blue 20 years ago with Wayne Carlton and he took a picture of a griz track down in a canyon. I’ve seen plenty of griz and their track and it was definitely a griz track.
Ben Lilly country!

 

[Brent in Az]

Brent,
You might call bullshit on this but I was hunting on the edge of the blue 20 years ago with Wayne Carlton and he took a picture of a griz track down in a canyon. I’ve seen plenty of griz and their track and it was definitely a griz track.
Ben Lilly country!

It's possible. pretty remote country with areas that rarely see a human.

 

[JimP]

I was hunting a very remote canyon in Utah around 30 years ago when we jumped something down in the bottom. We never did see it as it made it's get away in the thick brush. When we got to a mud puddle that it had crossed through there was a clear track and to my untrained eye it looked just like a grizzly track is described. It was huge compared to the black bear tracks that I had seen and the claw marks were way out in front of the toes.

In my mind it was a grizzly that had quite possibly came down from Wyoming and had been following the Green River to find a better homestead. That canyon was around 10 miles East of the Green.

 

[Elkeater]

I live in the west.
I detest the federal government’s mismanagement of our resources.

I know it’s not a popular opinion but it’s mine and I have my reasons.

None of this below is meant in an argumentative manner. One thing I like about this form is that most of us seem to be able to conduct ourselves in a gentlemanly manner.

Now that’s a fair opinion. I will say I know a pretty fair bit about the states and federal land management agencies. Budgets, processes, laws, policy and regulation (the states often play a bigger role here on federal land than many think), lawsuits, etc. I will say this. Federal management might not be to your standard which is a fair take on it. With the states you wouldn’t have a standard because there wouldn’t be much public access left. The states are generally required to generate funds from state held lands no matter what. Federal isn’t. Mixing Money and natural resources is a fickle thing and money almost always wins. This is obviously an oversimplification and a full discussion on this would take us the better part of the day. And at the end of it not much would change. I just like folks to get the whole current picture before they settle on an opinion.

For those who want to see better management of public lands I always say get involved with groups like Mule Deer Foundation, Rocky Mountian Elk Foundation, Wild Sheep foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, etc. Those organizations have a large pull on Federal land agencies. And I don’t mean the little drinker projects and pulling old barbed wire fences they do as volunteer days. Nice to to do no doubt but there is real money and real influence from those organizations.

 

[Neophyte]

None of this below is meant in an argumentative manner. One thing I like about this form is that most of us seem to be able to conduct ourselves in a gentlemanly manner.

Now that’s a fair opinion. I will say I know a pretty fair bit about the states and federal land management agencies. Budgets, processes, laws, policy and regulation (the states often play a bigger role here on federal land than many think), lawsuits, etc. I will say this. Federal management might not be to your standard which is a fair take on it. With the states you wouldn’t have a standard because there wouldn’t be much public access left. The states are generally required to generate funds from state held lands no matter what. Federal isn’t. Mixing Money and natural resources is a fickle thing and money almost always wins. This is obviously an oversimplification and a full discussion on this would take us the better part of the day. And at the end of it not much would change. I just like folks to get the whole current picture before they settle on an opinion.

For those who want to see better management of public lands I always say get involved with groups like Mule Deer Foundation, Rocky Mountian Elk Foundation, Wild Sheep foundation, National Wild Turkey Federation, etc. Those organizations have a large pull on Federal land agencies. And I don’t mean the little drinker projects and pulling old barbed wire fences they do as volunteer days. Nice to to do no doubt but there is real money and real influence from those organizations.

Thank you a respectful and well reasoned reply.

The land is for agriculture, mining, and timber production. The states are better at this than the federal government. Recreational uses are secondary and fail to generate enough revenue to be feasible.

 

[Elkeater]

Thank you a respectful and well reasoned reply.

The land is for agriculture, mining, and timber production. The states are better at this than the federal government. Recreational uses are secondary and fail to generate enough revenue to be feasible.

Like I said gentlemanly conduct. What I like about this forum. There’s a couple others I no longer visit because the discussion goes south real quick.

The dynamic tension between your stated purposes, and the will of the general population that doesn’t quite understand where their food/ wood for homes/ copper for cell phones and cars comes from is real. Those with a disconnect often ask elected officials to “protect” public lands from these uses. These representatives then control the budget and direct the work of the land management agencies. Plus the lawsuit push from folks who want a complete hands off approach and management with emotion rather than science. Though both sides of the argument lean towards emotion more than science for management. Anyways it’s really a dynamic tension. Basically neither side is getting what it wants entirely but the balance is probably the best that can be done. For example here locally there is plenty of mining that happens on public lands, grazing occurs (though it’s tough to graze large numbers in the desert with very little water and it is heavily supported by government run programs from NRCS, FSA, and state funds of various types without which the long term ability to graze would vanish due to the drought cycle) and of course there is firewood collection but no timber production because there isn’t any trees. There is also a thriving recreation industry that generates lots of local business from OHV rental shops, mtn biking shops, guides, outfitters, the sale of watercraft, marinas, and tour services. So while it may appear that there isn’t enough money generated by recreation there are some areas that the recreation economy blows any kind of extractive resource economy away entirely. Then there are areas where there isn’t much recreation economy and extractive type resources are the money maker. Either way money is the driver and at the end of the day a blanket statement about what public lands are for and what generates money is a nuanced answer at best.

Anyways thanks for not chewing on me online.

 

[Scott CWO]

I’m all for reintroduction of native species including grizzlies. I also think those decisions belong with land management and state game agencies and not on a ballot. Same goes for all wildlife management stuff. Like the wolf reintroduction in CO. What a waste of CPW dollars. They were already there naturally. All we had to do was not shoot them. Instead CPW is spending millions to reintroduce something that is already in the state.

And if we are reintroducing stuff I’d vote Bison over anything else at this point. They numbered in the millions and I’d like to see them ranging through Forest service and BLM lands where they used to be.

I would love to see bison but since cattle ranching has taken hold, bison will not be reintroduced to most areas. They plow through normal cattle fences and the conflicts would be huge.

 

[Aaron N]

I would love to see bison but since cattle ranching has taken hold, bison will not be reintroduced to most areas. They plow through normal cattle fences and the conflicts would be huge.

I was going to type this exact comment earlier today. You think cattle farmers get mad at a moose or two over damaged fences, imagine a herd of 100 bison on the move.

 

[cajunchefray]

And don’t forget the bison. Colorado was once home to hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of bison on the plains. They should reintroduce thousands of them in the National Forests here. One could hunt wapiti and bison during the same seasons. Of course you would need more horses or a bigger game cart for bison. I’ll bet a buffalo hind quarter would be a real bitch hauling out on a freighter pack. LOL

But the meat will taste good!

 

[Elkeater]

I would love to see bison but since cattle ranching has taken hold, bison will not be reintroduced to most areas. They plow through normal cattle fences and the conflicts would be huge.

I was going to type this exact comment earlier today. You think cattle farmers get mad at a moose or two over damaged fences, imagine a herd of 100 bison on the move.

Oh I know exactly why we haven’t reintroduced them. The cattle industry is one of the most politically powerful groups in the country. Doesn’t stop me from wishing we could overcome the issues and make it happen on a more widespread scale. It’ll never happen but fun thinking about what it might be like if it did.

 

[M70375!]

I'd like to see Grizzlies introduced back into the Blue Range primitive area of east central Arizona. An area they used to inhabit, before the last one was killed in 1935.

be careful what you wish for

 

[JimP]

On the bison reintroduction, Utah has 2 free roaming hunt-able herds. One in the Henry Mountains north of Lake Powell and the other that they started in 2009 in the Utah Book Cliffs. Both herds coexist with cattle on their ranges. However hunters need to submit blood samples from their trophy for testing for brucellosis that may cause cattle to abort their fetus.

Ever since the herd was established in the Henry Mountains or the Book Cliffs neither herd has tested positive for the disease.

I can not remember if the Yellowstone herd has tested positive for it or not but that is one problem where the cattlemen in Montana and Wyoming have a problem with them.

I talked to one of the biologist that was monitoring the herd in the Book Cliffs when I learned that there were some bison migrating into Colorado and if they were going to haze them back into Utah. He basically said that they weren't but he also said that the Utah DWR approached Colorado's CP&W about the transplants and Colorado didn't want anything to do with it because of the problems that could arise.

To this day there are a few free ranging bison in Western Colorado north of I-70 and south of US HWY 40 that can be hunted without a permit and shot on sight.

​

 

[CoElkHunter]

On the bison reintroduction, Utah has 2 free roaming hunt-able herds. One in the Henry Mountains north of Lake Powell and the other that they started in 2009 in the Utah Book Cliffs. Both herds coexist with cattle on their ranges. However hunters need to submit blood samples from their trophy for testing for brucellosis that may cause cattle to abort their fetus.

Ever since the herd was established in the Henry Mountains or the Book Cliffs neither herd has tested positive for the disease.

I can not remember if the Yellowstone herd has tested positive for it or not but that is one problem where the cattlemen in Montana and Wyoming have a problem with them.

I talked to one of the biologist that was monitoring the herd in the Book Cliffs when I learned that there were some bison migrating into Colorado and if they were going to haze them back into Utah. He basically said that they weren't but he also said that the Utah DWR approached Colorado's CP&W about the transplants and Colorado didn't want anything to do with it because of the problems that could arise.

To this day there are a few free ranging bison in Western Colorado north of I-70 and south of US HWY 40 that can be hunted without a permit and shot on sight.

​

Wait a minute. The Colorado DOW didn't want anything to do with the reintroduction of bison because of the problems that could arise? What about the problems with the wolves and just very recently the wolverine reintroduction? I know the reintroduction of the wolves was done through a voter passed (by a handful of votes) ballot initiative but it seems to me these group(s) pushing the reintroduction of apex predator species are "cherry picking" what species they want reintroduced. Since they didn't push the reintroduction of the bison, I would think a federal lawsuit COULD/MIGHT have halted the wolf reintroduction regardless of the "problems" ANY of these species might cause? BTW, for those here that don't live in Colorado, ALL of the reintroduction and subsequent cattle depredation costs are born by the DOW here, i.e. the hunters and fishermen monies. The general taxpayer doesn't pay anything through their taxes in the general fund.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I was going to type this exact comment earlier today. You think cattle farmers get mad at a moose or two over damaged fences, imagine a herd of 100 bison on the move.

Well, the over population of grizzlies in Alberta would take care of the bison. LOL

 

[Boone66]

There was some talk recently about bringing griz back into WA state as well, but I know there was quite an uproar so I dont know what became of it.

I think they should, around puget sound and the islands out their.

There was some talk recently about bringing griz back into WA state as well, but I know there was quite an uproar so I dont know what became of it.

 

[Boone66]

Oh I know exactly why we haven’t reintroduced them. The cattle industry is one of the most politically powerful groups in the country. Doesn’t stop me from wishing we could overcome the issues and make it happen on a more widespread scale. It’ll never happen but fun thinking about what it might be like if it did.

They are trying really hard to do just that here in Montana, buying up cattle ranches and taking over grazing rights. Their plan is to have a migrating herd from Canada to Mexico and to Remove all the people that are in the way. Same with grizzly, they already have a grizzly corridor all mapped out and I live in it. Them tree huggers don't care one wit about anyone, just animals and trees.