Reintroduce Grizzlies!

[HankBuck]

Grizzlies belong in Alaska not the lower 48 in cattle country. Same for the vermin we call wolves.

@Neophyte - we’re thankful You are not running Fish & Wildlife Departments in any State. I don’t think the answer is that First Grade Simple….but I (admittedly) am Not a Wildlife Biologist. Gonna guess you don’t care for wolves (who does?) and/or are a Rancher? My own opinion (worthless) is that it all depends on the population balance that is maintained and allow the States to manage their own wildlife populations and game laws.

 

[Neophyte]

@Neophyte - we’re thankful You are not running Fish & Wildlife Departments in any State. I don’t think the answer is that First Grade Simple….but I (admittedly) am Not a Wildlife Biologist. Gonna guess you don’t care for wolves (who does?) and/or are a Rancher? My own opinion (worthless) is that it all depends on the population balance that is maintained and allow the States to manage their own wildlife populations and game laws.

I’ve been involved in agriculture since a kid but have a town job now.
Wolves are a shoot on sight animal in my book. My grandfather didn’t spend all his time eradicating them just so greenies could reintroduce them. I vote according to some very basic principles with agricultural interests being chief among them.

 

[HankBuck]

I’ve been involved in agriculture since a kid but have a town job now.
Wolves are a shoot on sight animal in my book. My grandfather didn’t spend all his time eradicating them just so greenies could reintroduce them. I vote according to some very basic principles with agricultural interests being chief among them.

@Neophyte - I’m just a outdoorsman from New Jersey so talk about “unqualified”…I fit the bill. Spent all my early years hunting ducks on tidal waters (NJ has some great waterfowl hunting). I think any Rancher or Farmer should be able to kill an animal directly attacking their livestock (or trap it etc..). Burt I’m against just “eradicating” a species” from any State. Now, that doesn’t mean we should alter everything to accommodate an animal that has been extinct for 100s of years but if—-IF they can fit in, in a limited way, maybe it’s worth the effort. If a Rancher is losing cattle to wolves, kill them or compensate the Rancher generously. Again, let the State decide what is right for their State and voted in by their citizens. ((Except California - they’ve lost ALL logic).

 

[Neophyte]

@Neophyte - I’m just a outdoorsman from New Jersey so talk about “unqualified”…I fit the bill. Spent all my early years hunting ducks on tidal waters (NJ has some great waterfowl hunting). I think any Rancher or Farmer should be able to kill an animal directly attacking their livestock (or trap it etc..). Burt I’m against just “eradicating” a species” from any State. Now, that doesn’t mean we should alter everything to accommodate an animal that has been extinct for 100s of years but if—-IF they can fit in, in a limited way, maybe it’s worth the effort. If a Rancher is losing cattle to wolves, kill them or compensate the Rancher generously. Again, let the State decide what is right for their State and voted in by their citizens. ((Except California - they’ve lost ALL logic).

All we are doing is reinventing the wheel with the reintroduction of species in my opinion.

Take wolves for example. They will decimate the ungulate herds and also cattle herds. Ever seen a cow herd that lives in wolf country? The stress they undergo is detrimental to putting weight on the calves and when you are selling by the pound it gets expensive really quickly.

Also, besides man they have no predator. First they say, “We need X number of breeding pairs before they can be taken off the ESL,” endangered species list. Then when that number is reached they increase the number. It’s the same with grizzlies.

As for paying ranchers for livestock depredation by these vermin you have a better chance of winning the Powerball than getting paid. You would need a video of them committing the act and even then they would find some way to disqualify your evidence.

 

[HankBuck]

All we are doing is reinventing the wheel with the reintroduction of species in my opinion.

Take wolves for example. They will decimate the ungulate herds and also cattle herds. Ever seen a cow herd that lives in wolf country? The stress they undergo is detrimental to putting weight on the calves and when you are selling by the pound it gets expensive really quickly.

Also, besides man they have no predator. First they say, “We need X number of breeding pairs before they can be taken off the ESL,” endangered species list. Then when that number is reached they increase the number. It’s the same with grizzlies.

As for paying ranchers for livestock depredation by these vermin you have a better chance of winning the Powerball than getting paid. You would need a video of them committing the act and even then they would find some way to disqualify your evidence.

@Neophyte - I’ve read (and heard) the its difficult for Ranchers to get “reimbursed” for Wolf killed livestock - guess that why so many Ranchers just “shoot & shovel” wolves. But cattle should not be the only determining factor in a wolf or grizz population because talk about “replaceable” - who cares about a cow? (Except for the price-per-pound). I certainly don’t have the answers….its a mess either way

 

[Neophyte]

@Neophyte - I’ve read (and heard) the its difficult for Ranchers to get “reimbursed” for Wolf killed livestock - guess that why so many Ranchers just “shoot & shovel” wolves. But cattle should not be the only determining factor in a wolf or grizz population because talk about “replaceable” - who cares about a cow? (Except for the price-per-pound). I certainly don’t have the answers….its a mess either way

You will care about a cow when you can’t buy beef at the grocery store.
Unless you prefer pork and chicken seven days a week.

 

[Aaron N]

You will care about a cow when you can’t buy beef at the grocery store.
Unless you prefer pork and chicken seven days a week.

So should all lion and leopards be eradicated because they kill livestock? How about elephants for raiding crops?

And before you accuse my of being a city boy, I grew up raising cattle and on a grain farm.

 

[HankBuck]

You will care about a cow when you can’t buy beef at the grocery store.
Unless you prefer pork and chicken seven days a week.

@Neophyte - that’s weak, wolves & griz never gonna lower beef supplies and I’ve got my own flock of chickens (if coyotes & fox don’t get them). I do agree that the support for reintro of wolves is all political and animal lovers/pet sitters/bunny huggers etc.. I would be interested in hunting a wolves if we reach a sustainable population, but I don’t want to lose a 1/3 of elk & moose populations to do it.

 

[cwpayton]

the grizz has no other enemies to keep it in check , only man, we are apex. there are roughly 1000 around the yellowstone ecco system, the eat cattle they eat sheep ,they eat people. just this week 2 Idaho men killed a grizz after being attacked , 24 shots from 10mm and 45 acp. good story ,google it. wolves are devistating elk and deer populations, they have no enemies. In oregon watch your dogs ,watch your kids wolves are about ,(eastern).all you who desire to enjoy the grizz, are you out there enjoying them now, go hike and camp in or around yellowstone, leave some bacon out at nite, let me know how that goes for you.
about grizz tracks they are straight across the pad behind the toes, black are curved. about fed vs. state management, utah has a law suit to take back all the Blm land right now.
Its contentous, our state, there land, for instance I just returned today from camping in idaho nat forest, had a note on my trailer Id left there ,{ you must move 30 mile away after 10 days.so im suppose to take off in the middle of the week and go move my camper 30 miles, they cant allow 14 days on their land? their land.. IM pretty much in favor of nf. they just need a good shake up. wheres brian Zenke when you need him, B L M , NOT SO MUCH.

 

[Neophyte]

So should all lion and leopards be eradicated because they kill livestock? How about elephants for raiding crops?

And before you accuse my of being a city boy, I grew up raising cattle and on a grain farm.

Africa and Texas has pretty much managed it right.
The landowner has control of the animals on their land. Some have found that game animals are a better source of revenue.

Unfortunately every Tom, Dick, Harry and Susie Q has access to the land used to run cattle in the western states due to it being on “public” land. Yet the cattle producer has no control over the game animals on that land.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think they should, around puget sound and the islands out their.

I say downtown Seattle under @sestoppelman supervision. LOL

 

[Aaron N]

Africa and Texas has pretty much managed it right.
The landowner has control of the animals on their land. Some have found that game animals are a better source of revenue.

Unfortunately every Tom, Dick, Harry and Susie Q has access to the land used to run cattle in the western states due to it being on “public” land. Yet the cattle producer has no control over the game animals on that land.

There’s a whooooooole lot of Africa that’s public land and not nearly the same as a Texas game farm.

And letting a cattle rancher run cattle on public land should not give him the ability to manage the land how he sees fit. It’s call “public” for a reason.

 

[Neophyte]

There’s a whooooooole lot of Africa that’s public land and not nearly the same as a Texas game farm.

And letting a cattle rancher run cattle on public land should not give him the ability to manage the land how he sees fit. It’s call “public” for a reason.

It should not be “public land”.
This was a mistake made when they built the transcontinental railroad that continues today. Like I said, Texas pretty much got it right. They have very little public land.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

It should not be “public land”.
This was a mistake made when they built the transcontinental railroad that continues today. Like I said, Texas pretty much got it right. They have very little public land.

We have what’s known as crown land here in Canada which is essentially the same idea as your public land in the states. I’m curious how your vision of the world would work? You think billion dollar land conglomerates are going to allow the average blue collar worker access to the vast tracks of land they’re going to buy up? Land is a safe investment it almost always increases in value. In the world your purposing I see a few individuals with control of vast amounts of money being able to afford qusi-kingdoms and the average worker having limited to no access to hunting land. Know what robin hood’s original crime was? Pouching the kings deer.

 

[GoexFFG]

I agree with Neophyte. I’m a cow calf producer in central Alabama. We have enough problems with vultures and coyotes. I’m aware grizzly bears won’t be released here . I would hate to know if I was rancher in that area that I had bears to fight also.

 

[HankBuck]

Africa and Texas has pretty much managed it right.
The landowner has control of the animals on their land. Some have found that game animals are a better source of revenue.

Unfortunately every Tom, Dick, Harry and Susie Q has access to the land used to run cattle in the western states due to it being on “public” land. Yet the cattle producer has no control over the game animals on that land.

@Neophyte - usually Texas is regarded as the “Worst State” for access to any Public land. They have done the worst job of any State as far as setting aside any State or Federal land where the public has access to hunt. I do Not know the reasons why, Maybe it dates back to the original cattle and oil industries but anyone wanting good hunting in Texas is usually required to Lease it or Own it. Considering the taxes paid by millions of residents and the fact they are in better financial shape then many other large States (California?) they should have been able to figure something out.
On the good side, if you’ve got the money $$, lots of deer & turkey AND it’s the only State that allows Bobcat & Cougar to be shot in unlimited numbers, all year long, day or night…No permit required…..damn few Cougar though.

 

[Neophyte]

@Neophyte - usually Texas is regarded as the “Worst State” for access to any Public land. They have done the worst job of any State as far as setting aside any State or Federal land where the public has access to hunt. I do Not know the reasons why, Maybe it dates back to the original cattle and oil industries but anyone wanting good hunting in Texas is usually required to Lease it or Own it. Considering the taxes paid by millions of residents and the fact they are in better financial shape then many other large States (California?) they should have been able to figure something out.
On the good side, if you’ve got the money $$, lots of deer & turkey AND it’s the only State that allows Bobcat & Cougar to be shot in unlimited numbers, all year long, day or night…No permit required…..damn few Cougar though.

To me that makes Texas one of the best states.
You can hunt in Texas but you’re going to pay for the privilege.

 

[HankBuck]

To me that makes Texas one of the best states.
You can hunt in Texas but you’re going to pay for the privilege.

@Neophyte well you’re dug in on this matter and “if” you live in Texas then I will defer to your opinion…as it is resident & semi fact based. Every State has a history that helped develop it current policies, laws, and culture and coming from New Jersey - most States look “better” regarding hunting and Outdoor activities with Texas still being better then average. Having hunted Texas 3 times (dove, deer, predators) I enjoyed each trip and especially the predator hunting - we didn’t even have a good week but it was still the Best predator hunting I’ve ever had.

 

[Rickmt]

I would love to see bison but since cattle ranching has taken hold, bison will not be reintroduced to most areas. They plow through normal cattle fences and the conflicts would be huge.

Read about the American Prairie Reserve here in Montana. The reintroduction has already begun .

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

To me that makes Texas one of the best states.
You can hunt in Texas but you’re going to pay for the privilege.

Which if all places followed that principle brings you back to hunting being an elitist only activity. Which intern likely increases trespassing and pouching. The factory worker who owns a savage axis and hunts public land and counts on a deer in his freezer every fall is still going to hunt he’s just going to be forced to do it outside the law. All I can see coming from your vision is making criminals of otherwise law abiding hunters.