R8 3 accidental discharges, human error or?

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I know that some of you out there think the R8 is the finest rifle ever built. I am not posting this to take anything away from what I assume is a fine rifle.

Here is the situation we recently experienced. We had a foreign hunter and language was a big problem. This story was relayed to me from the PH that we assigned to him.

The clients first AD took place in camp with our PH watching him from a distance. He seemed to be operating the cocking device when the rifle had the first AD. Yes, the rifle should never be loaded in camp, the PH watched him unload upon arriving in camp. At some time unknown to the PH he put one or more rounds into the magazine.
The other two took place at night while hyena hunting. Now the PH is watching him very closely, but being a night hunt, lighting was not perfect. A hyena appeared and the client tried to cock his rifle with his right hand thumb, he could not then he tried using his left hand thumb and as he did the rifle AD. This happened a second time under almost identical circumstances. Fortunately the client had now expended all of his ammunition and his hunting was finished. One last note. As I stated language was a problem, but after both night time ADs he stated, good professional trigger? What ever the hell that means?

I am in no way saying that the R-8 is unsafe, I would just like to better understand how this could have taken place. I have a suspicion what ever caused this was not a manufacturer fault.

Lon

 

[Borderer]

I have an R8 and have not seen this happen yet but I am aware of an estate not far from me that does not allow R8s due to the number of accidental discharges that they have had. My understanding is that the most likely cause is people cocking the rifle with a finger inside the trigger guard and subconsciously squeezing the trigger.

It is something that really worries me as an R8 owner.

 

[Dewald]

I would guess a dirty trigger mechanism on a trigger that is perhaps set at 1 or 1,5 lbs. Dirt and grime keeps the trigger back and as soon as the cocking device is disengaged the rifle goes bang. Also curious to learn.

 

[zephyr]

There are Accidental and Negligent Discharges... Accidental is a mechanical malfunction, anything else is a Negligent Discharge

 

[mark-hunter]

AD usually is human error.
On the other hand, there is not a single technical device constructed by men, that can not fail.

What we need to know: the client in question, what was his experience overall in hunting, and experience in handling R8?
During situation with hyena, where did he keep his finger? On the trigger or out of the trigger guard?

Basically, this thing had to be tested with unloaded rifle, there on site. Since this was not done, we can only guess.

On situation "he added one or more rounds in magazine".
Should not be done in the camp.

But, the reasons could be there unknown to us.
I remember one situation.
At my pIace during two days hunting, I was sleeping in local hunters rental apartment, his house is nearby. So, we sat in his garden after the hunt, early afternoon.

He had a problem of his rifles extractor. Rifle was not ejecting, so he was trying to fix.
After he finished the work on bolt and extractor, he needed to check the extraction and ejection.
So, he loaded one or two live rounds in the rifle, and cycled the bolt. (problem was not fixed)
But with live round in chamber he was still doing some "adjustments", rifle pointed to his neighbors house.
After that, he emptied the rifle somehow, and put it in the case to take later to gunsmith.

I took mental note, to bring him some dummy rounds next time as a present.
So, people improvise like this sometimes. Not recommended. If can not be done safe, not to be done
Unsafe act.

There could be a reason for client to load the rifle in camp, similar like that.
But we need more details.

 

[BourbonTrail]

Maybe you should have shown him the video Toby made:

Blaser R8. Top Loading and De-cocking Video

Here's a video I made of top loading and de-cocking the Blaser R8. These two operations seem to be difficult for some people who are new to the R8. Hopefully this will help.

www.africahunting.com

Based on the direction used to unsafe/cock the R8, I think Borderers hypotheses is correct. The client most likely unknowingly had his finger on the trigger while struggling to arm the safety/cocking switch. Aka, the Negligent Discharge, especially considering the circumstances.

I’m sure that @One Day... could give us a dissertation on the mechanics involved with the R8 and potentially offer some other possibilities.

 

[BeeMaa]

Agreed. Most likely cause is cocking with their finger on the trigger. Also questioning the AD in the camp and why it wasn’t further investigated by the PH & camp staff. A clear safety issue that the hunter didn’t understand. I’m also questioning the competency of the hunter and how well they know their equipment. Clearly not well enough.

Hindsight being 20/20, it would have been a good to have more effective communication. It may have stopped the last two AD’s.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

There are Accidental and Negligent Discharges... Accidental is a mechanical malfunction, anything else is a Negligent Discharge

AD or DG that is what I would like to know.

 

[AimSmall]

A bit of practice is needed to develop a feel for operating the R8 cocking mechanism. Easy for a rookie to grasp the pistol grip (putting a finger on the trigger) to gain leverage. Refer to the age-old rule: do not put your finger on the trigger until ready to fire. Stay safe.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Agreed. Most likely cause is cocking with their finger on the trigger. Also questioning the AD in the camp and why it wasn’t further investigated by the PH & camp staff. A clear safety issue that the hunter didn’t understand. I’m also questioning the competency of the hunter and how well they know their equipment. Clearly not well enough.

Hindsight being 20/20, it would have been a good to have more effective communication. It may have stopped the last two AD’s.

Hi Bee Ma, As I stated the client spoke almost no english.

The client is extremely experienced. Experience does not necessarily mean safe.

There was no excuse for having a loaded rifle in camp. Period

Discharge 2 & 3 were at night, client was using Thermal image. As I said difficult to see fingers and thumbs in the dark.

 

[WAB]

I used an R8 for the first time in Romania last week. I immediately recognized the temptation to use my trigger finger to gain leverage to cock the weapon. My grip is not as strong as it once was due to wrist surgery. It took some time to develop a safe cocking technique.

I must say that I was impressed with the weapon, but the cocking and bolt cycle take some getting used to.

 

[rgsiii]

I think the ultimate answer may be hard to determine.

If it is your gun, I would safely load and unload multiple times and jolt the gun with a dummy round to see if it fires when cocked. I would no matter what, get it looked at by a competent gunsmith.

 

[Daggaboy375]

The trigger is in an excellent position to use as leverage by the index finger to take the R8 on and off safe.

Know your firearm!

DB

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I have a question on a R8 if the operator is squeezing the trigger and then cocks the rifle will it discharge or must the trigger be released then squeezed to discharege?

 

[Jfet]

I have had an unwanted discharge early in my ownership of an R8. It involved difficulty setting the cocking device. The harder i pushed on the cocking device the tighter my grip got on the rifle. I was very frustrated that I could not get the device to stay cocked and I was not aware that my trigger finger had depressed the trigger. Thus as I pushed the cocking device up the gun went off. Fortunately, firearm safety is in layers and the other layers such as barrel pointed in a safe direction prevented further problems. The rifle was immediately cleared and put away. I went home and thought about what happened. I deduced that in my frustration I had lost track of where my trigger finger was located. I then spent the next several days developing a personal manual of arms that developed the muscle memory to set the cocking device on the first attempt and keep the trigger finger away from the trigger. The R8 is a very good rifle. I highly recommend it. However, I will recommend a lot time be spent on learning how to set that cocking device.

 

[Daggaboy375]

I have some primed brass to play with. I'll experiment this afternoon.

DB

 

[uplander01]

I’ve never been a big fan of the safety/cocking device. I think with a properly maintained trigger group and a well practiced/competent user there are no problems….

I worked for Blaser for several years and sold a fair number of r8’s. People that like them really have an affinity for the features, me -not so much. To each his own. I’ll stick with some sort of Mauser or Winchester action

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I have had an unwanted discharge early in my ownership of an R8. It involved difficulty setting the cocking device. The harder i pushed on the cocking device the tighter my grip got on the rifle. I was very frustrated that I could not get the device to stay cocked and I was not aware that my trigger finger had depressed the trigger. Thus as I pushed the cocking device up the gun went off. Fortunately, firearm safety is in layers and the other layers such as barrel pointed in a safe direction prevented further problems. The rifle was immediately cleared and put away. I went home and thought about what happened. I deduced that in my frustration I had lost track of where my trigger finger was located. I then spent the next several days developing a personal manual of arms that developed the muscle memory to set the cocking device on the first attempt and keep the trigger finger away from the trigger. The R8 is a very good rifle. I highly recommend it. However, I will recommend a lot time be spent on learning how to set that cocking device.

Jfet, What you wrote sounds makes a lot of sense. I doubt his rifle will see a gunsmith. If he perceives his unintentional discharges are costing him trophies. He will just buy another.

 

[zephyr]

I think that NDs happen more than we know .... Was at a camp that had 3 Italians half way through their hunt when I showed one Sport had 3 ND's total by the end of his hunt, one when loading his Rifle and 2 when getting on the sticks.

 

[HUNTROMANIA]

I had few situations like that in my guiding career. Surprisingly not with Blaser!
I had only situation with Blaser, you guys can decide if was the gun fault or hunter.
We hunted wild boars in the winter. He dropped the magazine and the trigger in the snow, he put it back. We stayed like 3,4 hours in the blind. On the way back we saw some boars. He tried to fire but the trigger was not working. He pushed hard few times. And when I took out the magazine I saw that pin was surrounded by ice. I removed the ice and trigger was working normally.
What I saw from hunters who are not used with Blaser or the hunters who are nervous when they see an animal: they have problems to push the safety!!!
I had same problem with new Mauser guns.