towserthemouser
AH veteran
I've been lurking and learning on this wonderful forum for a while now. So much knowledge and experience on here, and I appreciate the generosity and passion of those who share it!
I've been on 3 safaris but it's been over 15 years; life has intervened (Job change, Category 5 Hurricane, global pandemic, paying for two academic degrees and two weddings, etc.). When I turned 60 I sat down and had a think and decided that I'm by no means done having adventures, and set some bucket list goals...... I'm hoping to hunt and adventure at least into my mid 70's. Legs and lungs and eyes are all good for now, and I'm putting in the work to try to keep it that way.
I'm drawn to the beautiful doubles and am researching and preparing to order one. I'm not opposed to finding a nice used one, but there is something fun about having it made just for you, and the anticipation of waiting for the delivery.
Leaning pretty hard right now towards the Heym 89B, although we have an upcoming trip to London, and I "accidentally" chose a hotel in the neighborhood of many of the famous gun makers....... So I'll be making the rounds (any suggestions about what/who to see are most welcome; I do know I want to have a look at the Rigby Shikari). I'm also planning to make a trip out to Texas and see and shoot the Heym rifles. If I had the budget I would just head straight to Westley Richards and sign the paperwork, but alas I think I will enjoy those vicariously, and spend my nickels on hunting trips.
I'm trying to choose the right caliber and am seeking advice. This is a big purchase, and if you order one you have to wait for it, and daylight is burning and I want to get it right. I'm 61. I'm built like a fullback. I do have a history of myopia since childhood and have undergone Lasik surgery. My vision is good but I have been told that I have a greater risk of retinal detachment than the general population. So that is maybe a consideration when it comes to heavy recoil. I have a fair amount of experience shooting a 375 H&H and the recoil of that does not bother me at all, in fact I really enjoy shooting it. I have taken a buffalo and a leopard with the 375. I have no experience with heavier calibers or with double rifles (I have put plenty of high brass duck and goose loads through my trusty Super Fox). It is likely that buffalo will be the most common targeted species for me over the next 15 years or so (with luck), mostly just based on cost and availability factors and the joy of hunting them. However, I do aspire to hunt elephant at least once, and maybe more if finances permit. And I might like to try for lion, again if finances permit. So I want to choose a caliber that is suitable for all. Part of the decision also involves choosing one that I will enjoy practicing with, and develop muscle memory and confidence and proficiency with the rifle and the caliber.
450/400 NE: Many have spoken well of the 450/400 NE. It is said to be very shootable, and ideally suited for buffalo. I've heard it said that it's perfectly adequate for elephant, and will achieve enough penetration to do the job with correct placement, and that the correct placement is perhaps more likely if you shoot the caliber well. To be honest I'm not 1000% convinced it is authoritative on elephant. And I'm a "belt and suspenders, two is one, one is none" kind of guy. I was also told that the 450/400 NE should be the first double rifle you buy, and the last one you sell. And if I'm going to hunt 8 or 10 buffalo and maybe 1 or 2 elephants over the next 10-15 years and into my 70's, maybe it is the correct choice.
450 NE: The 450 NE intrigues me because it is perhaps a bit more authoritative and maybe more suitable for elephant, and at least on paper may have a penetration advantage over the 470 NE based on better sectional density. And there is a huge choice of bullets in .458 and likely to remain so into the future. I've been told it may not have good resale value vs. the 470, although I hope to buy a rifle with some character and leave it behind for my grandson rather than sell it..... so resale value questions may not be as important. I'm buying a rifle to use it and enjoy it, not to sell it.
470 NE: The 470 NE certainly has plenty of cache, and most seem to agree that it's "enough gun" for all the animals we hunt. Resale value is perhaps the strongest of these choices from what I can tell. So if you're not happy with it for any reason, you can sell it. Ammo may be laying around in camp. I've heard it said that the recoil is a big step up, and one person even said, "The 470 NE is a young turk's caliber. You won't shoot it as well as a 450/400 NE, and you won't be shooting it when you're 70." No less an authority than Kevin Robertson has approved the caliber for elephant, but has also expressed some concerns about penetration, and stated that he "wishes it had a bit more sectional density." (The S.D. is .318) Kevin also expressed to me that the superior S.D. of .341 in a 450 NE with a 500 grain bullet may confer a meaningful penetration advantage for the slightly smaller caliber.......
500 NE: To be honest I haven't really considered the 500 NE as strongly for myself as a client hunter. I understand that it may be one of the very best choices for a PH to select as a stopping rifle, but I'm concerned we're just getting too far up the recoil scale for myself. On the other hand, I did have one person state that with his eyes closed he was not certain he could tell the difference in recoil from a 450 to a 470 to a 500 NE.
I'm ready to submit my application for membership to the Double Rifle Club, and would welcome any words of wisdom and encouragement from the members!
I've been on 3 safaris but it's been over 15 years; life has intervened (Job change, Category 5 Hurricane, global pandemic, paying for two academic degrees and two weddings, etc.). When I turned 60 I sat down and had a think and decided that I'm by no means done having adventures, and set some bucket list goals...... I'm hoping to hunt and adventure at least into my mid 70's. Legs and lungs and eyes are all good for now, and I'm putting in the work to try to keep it that way.
I'm drawn to the beautiful doubles and am researching and preparing to order one. I'm not opposed to finding a nice used one, but there is something fun about having it made just for you, and the anticipation of waiting for the delivery.
Leaning pretty hard right now towards the Heym 89B, although we have an upcoming trip to London, and I "accidentally" chose a hotel in the neighborhood of many of the famous gun makers....... So I'll be making the rounds (any suggestions about what/who to see are most welcome; I do know I want to have a look at the Rigby Shikari). I'm also planning to make a trip out to Texas and see and shoot the Heym rifles. If I had the budget I would just head straight to Westley Richards and sign the paperwork, but alas I think I will enjoy those vicariously, and spend my nickels on hunting trips.
I'm trying to choose the right caliber and am seeking advice. This is a big purchase, and if you order one you have to wait for it, and daylight is burning and I want to get it right. I'm 61. I'm built like a fullback. I do have a history of myopia since childhood and have undergone Lasik surgery. My vision is good but I have been told that I have a greater risk of retinal detachment than the general population. So that is maybe a consideration when it comes to heavy recoil. I have a fair amount of experience shooting a 375 H&H and the recoil of that does not bother me at all, in fact I really enjoy shooting it. I have taken a buffalo and a leopard with the 375. I have no experience with heavier calibers or with double rifles (I have put plenty of high brass duck and goose loads through my trusty Super Fox). It is likely that buffalo will be the most common targeted species for me over the next 15 years or so (with luck), mostly just based on cost and availability factors and the joy of hunting them. However, I do aspire to hunt elephant at least once, and maybe more if finances permit. And I might like to try for lion, again if finances permit. So I want to choose a caliber that is suitable for all. Part of the decision also involves choosing one that I will enjoy practicing with, and develop muscle memory and confidence and proficiency with the rifle and the caliber.
450/400 NE: Many have spoken well of the 450/400 NE. It is said to be very shootable, and ideally suited for buffalo. I've heard it said that it's perfectly adequate for elephant, and will achieve enough penetration to do the job with correct placement, and that the correct placement is perhaps more likely if you shoot the caliber well. To be honest I'm not 1000% convinced it is authoritative on elephant. And I'm a "belt and suspenders, two is one, one is none" kind of guy. I was also told that the 450/400 NE should be the first double rifle you buy, and the last one you sell. And if I'm going to hunt 8 or 10 buffalo and maybe 1 or 2 elephants over the next 10-15 years and into my 70's, maybe it is the correct choice.
450 NE: The 450 NE intrigues me because it is perhaps a bit more authoritative and maybe more suitable for elephant, and at least on paper may have a penetration advantage over the 470 NE based on better sectional density. And there is a huge choice of bullets in .458 and likely to remain so into the future. I've been told it may not have good resale value vs. the 470, although I hope to buy a rifle with some character and leave it behind for my grandson rather than sell it..... so resale value questions may not be as important. I'm buying a rifle to use it and enjoy it, not to sell it.
470 NE: The 470 NE certainly has plenty of cache, and most seem to agree that it's "enough gun" for all the animals we hunt. Resale value is perhaps the strongest of these choices from what I can tell. So if you're not happy with it for any reason, you can sell it. Ammo may be laying around in camp. I've heard it said that the recoil is a big step up, and one person even said, "The 470 NE is a young turk's caliber. You won't shoot it as well as a 450/400 NE, and you won't be shooting it when you're 70." No less an authority than Kevin Robertson has approved the caliber for elephant, but has also expressed some concerns about penetration, and stated that he "wishes it had a bit more sectional density." (The S.D. is .318) Kevin also expressed to me that the superior S.D. of .341 in a 450 NE with a 500 grain bullet may confer a meaningful penetration advantage for the slightly smaller caliber.......
500 NE: To be honest I haven't really considered the 500 NE as strongly for myself as a client hunter. I understand that it may be one of the very best choices for a PH to select as a stopping rifle, but I'm concerned we're just getting too far up the recoil scale for myself. On the other hand, I did have one person state that with his eyes closed he was not certain he could tell the difference in recoil from a 450 to a 470 to a 500 NE.
I'm ready to submit my application for membership to the Double Rifle Club, and would welcome any words of wisdom and encouragement from the members!
)
