Potentially new dangerous game cartridges coming to market?

[Northern Shooter]

Hornady makes 416 Rigby for about $135-$140 per box

Sorry I was quoting Canadian prices, everything costs more here. The cheapest box of Rigby I'm seeing is $219 for Barnes solids, the most expensive is $310 for Federal Cape Shock TTSX.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Not sure where you are looking but looks like 416 Rigby is available $120-$130 per box hornady or barnes. 416 ruger $40 cheaper.
View attachment 525586View attachment 525587

See above posts, Canadian prices are much pricier.

 

[rookhawk]

Beyond the fact the newest calibers rarely come in nice quality guns, its pretty hard to top perfection.

375HH
404J
450-400
416 Rigby
470NE
500J
500NE
577NE

The originals were pretty remarkable, and they persist when hundreds of others died out because they are either low pressure, easy feeders, or they have excellent extraction.

The 450 Rigby showed promise because although new, it did come in some pretty high quality firearms, but it didn’t flourish. Same for 400HH, and to a lesser extent 458 Lott.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Beyond the fact the newest calibers rarely come in nice quality guns, its pretty hard to top perfection.

375HH
404J
450-400
416 Rigby
470NE
500J
500NE
577NE

The originals were pretty remarkable, and they persist when hundreds of others died out because they are either low pressure, easy feeders, or they have excellent extraction.

The 450 Rigby showed promise because although new, it did come in some pretty high quality firearms, but it didn’t flourish. Same for 400HH, and to a lesser extent 458 Lott.

And don't forget the ever popular .465 H and H? It came out the same time as the .400, yet nobody even on here has ever seen a brass case, let alone a live cartridge or rifle chambered for it? LOL

 

[0002S]

You may not know this, but the parent cartridge for the PRC line is the 375 Ruger. So in a way, the 375 PRC and 416 PRC already exists, but to their friends they are simply known as the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger.

^^^^ THIS

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

And don't forget the ever popular .465 H and H? It came out the same time as the .400, yet nobody even on here has ever seen a brass case, let alone a live cartridge or rifle chambered for it? LOL

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

 

[Philip Glass]

Has there been any news or rumours of new DG cartridges coming to market? I was thinking the other day who it would be to breath some new life into classic chamberings.

Hornady's PRC line came to mind, what about a 375PRC or .416 PRC? They currently top at at .30cal.

What about Ruger? They've already made 375 and 416 Ruger, how about a .458 Ruger? It's been 14 years since the 416 Ruger was announced.

I know the general trend on the rifle front is that less and less manufacturers are producing DG capable rifles in 2023, but I have hopes that someone will continue to produce new innovation on the ammo front.

Any ideas? Where are some current caps that a modern cartridge could help fill in?

I doubt there is the market for more big bore calibers but who knows. It is not a new cartridge but the .450/400 has been revived and is now becoming more popular. I would look for calibers like that to be loaded by more ammo manufacturers.

 

[JMJ888]

I think most buyers of big bores tend to migrate towards "proven" cartridges for hunting dangerous game and wax poetic about the nostalgia. I mean the 404 was developed in 1905, the 375 H&H in 1912 and the 416 Rigby in 1911. The 416 Rem came along in 1988 and the 450 Rigby in 1995...but the Rigby name again denotes "nostalgia".

One of the common arguments around cartridge choice always falls back to the "What if you lose your ammo?" Few people ante up the money on a safari, and gamble cartridge choice on new, or proprietary with lack of availability in a foreign country.

The big bore market pie isnt getting measurably larger so the only way you get growth is either solve a problem that an existing cartridge has and take sales from them (ex: 375/416 Ruger in a standard action), you develop marketing that creates awareness of a consumers unmet need they didn't know they had (this is the Creedmoor/PRC/high BC/long range hunting phenomena), you convince somebody that using a more expensive big bore on smaller game somehow makes more sense, or you develop a proprietary line of cartridges to drive sales of your own rifles (ask Dakota...err...Parkwest how that works out...or maybe Lazzeroni)

 

[503]

The 470 capstick came out in 1990. Does that count?

 

[Northern Shooter]

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

I'd love to see some reviews of the 465H&H. Was Holland and Holland the only make that produced rifles chambered in it?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I'd love to see some reviews of the 465H&H. Was Holland and Holland the only make that produced rifles chambered in it?

I’m not sure about other big makers but there are some custom makers in the US who have built rifles chambered in it

 

[CoElkHunter]

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale

HOLLAND & HOLLAND BEST QUALITY BOLT ACTION RIFLE .465 H&H MAGNUM for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

OK, but you'll need ammo for it? LOL And at that discounted price you might as well buy two of them and have one for a spare?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

OK, but you'll need ammo for it? LOL And at that discounted price you might as well buy two of them and have one for a spare?

That is a problem lol. Looks like Quality Cartridge does runs of brass for it

.423-.458 / 10mm-12mm Caliber Rifle Brass

 

[mdwest]

there will always be a market for new small and mid bore options.. between the tacti-cool community and the long range shooting community and hunters to one degree or another, there is always a desire to shoot "flatter", faster, with more precision, with less felt recoil, etc.. and the marketing departments at the various ammo manufacturers and rifle manufacturers are extremely good at what they do... and there are enough people spending enough money within those groups to warrant bringing new options to market fairly regularly...

once the US Army gets the new 6.8x51 cartridge fully fielded.. I'd be willing to bet there will be a HUGE run on rifles and ammo in that chambering..

The communities that shoot big bores (DG hunters and masochists ).. are a much, much smaller group.. simply put, there really isnt a whole lot of money to be made after tooling up factories to manufacture a new cartridge or new chamberings of barrels, etc after paying the engineers to do all of the associated R&D, paying the marketers to do all of the marketing, etc.. you're only going to sell a few thousand units over the course of a few years.. as opposed to selling tens of thousands of units chambered for "277 Fury" and millions of rounds to support those fury rifles..

I'd guess it will be many moons before we see another "DG" cartridge hit the market other than maybe a wildcat or two getting developed.. from a business perspective, I just dont think many companies would see the value in making the investment...

especially when the number of DG hunters around the world is getting smaller every year.. not larger..

 

[rblum]

Has there been any news or rumours of new DG cartridges coming to market? I was thinking the other day who it would be to breath some new life into classic chamberings.

Hornady's PRC line came to mind, what about a 375PRC or .416 PRC? They currently top at at .30cal.

What about Ruger? They've already made 375 and 416 Ruger, how about a .458 Ruger? It's been 14 years since the 416 Ruger was announced.

I know the general trend on the rifle front is that less and less manufacturers are producing DG capable rifles in 2023, but I have hopes that someone will continue to produce new innovation on the ammo front.

Any ideas? Where are some current caps that a modern cartridge could help fill in?

Why is another DG cartridge necessary? I don‘t believe that it is. There are plenty of DG cartridge sizes and types available now. If you want to try a newer cartridge, try the Ruger .375. It was developed in 2009. but, just imagine how you would purchase ammunition for it in say Zimbabwe if your ammo didn’t make the trip vs standard .375 H&H ammunition under the same circumstance.

I am a bit of a cynic. When a hunting type is already “Covered” by cartridges that do great work, who benefits from creating a new cartridge….. Oh, I get it… Hornaday and Ruger developed the .375 Ruger.

I sure wouldn’t purchase a new rifle in a new caliber when my ”Old” rifle in its “Old” cartridge performs excellent work.
.

 

[rblum]

Haha, fair enough.

I just figured that new cartridges coming to market = more options = more competition = lower prices.

Hornady seems to be one of the few companies that continues to show innovation with new cartridge designs.

The Ruger 375/416 for example opened up the market for what was traditionally limited to expensive Magnum length actions for more affordable rifles with standard length actions.

The cheapest Ruger 416 im currently seeing is $128.75 per box vs $219 for the Rigby. That's not insignificant.

It just feels like it's been decades since anything new has been released in the DG cartridge world.

I am not sure how that works…. Can you provide a modern example where the introduction of a newer cartridge has driven the cost of old cartridges down.

 

[Northern Shooter]

I am not sure how that works…. Can you provide a modern example where the introduction of a newer cartridge has driven the cost of old cartridges down.

It's unlikely that the classic, bespoke cartridges would see a price reduction unless they saw a significant drop in mark share vs the new cartridges.

I'm using .416 Ruger as an example, which here in Canada costs roughly half what .416 Rigby does, while offering the shooter very similar ballistics. The .416 RemMag is also cheaper than the Ribgy.

Just two examples of "new" cartridges that offer cheaper alternatives to the classics. I'm not sure if this same trend would play out with the .458's, 500's etc but it did with the .416's.

 

[Wheels]

I know something about a British maker developing some new rounds. And thats all im saying

Will you be calling your new invention the 416 Mustache?

 

[Flewis]

You would be hard pressed to come up with a new cartridge that was useful and hadn’t at least been wildcats.

 

[colorado]

Never bought any factory ammo for my 500 Jeffery. At $20 a cartridge wasn't going to happen.