Potentially new dangerous game cartridges coming to market?

[revturbo9967]

Although a 50BMG necked down to 375 would be pretty sick.....

Ya pretty sick as in sick throat erosion…

 

[503]

Ya pretty sick as in sick throat erosion…

Don't tell me you wouldn't want to shoot a 375 cal. Bullet at 7,300 fps.........

 

[revturbo9967]

Don't tell me you wouldn't want to shoot a 375 cal. Bullet at 7,300 fps.........

I’m not sure the rifling could handle it

 

[503]

Well the barrel would obviously be made out of depleted uranium........ And throat erosion sounds like the name of an adult film. Js

Cheers

503

I’m not sure the rifling could handle it

 

[SDPlinker]

I wish they would just make more of the current DG rounds...for lower prices haha. I'm not a new cartridge type, but I always find them interesting.

Do we need new calibers? Or available ammunition to practice with the existing calibers? It will just reduce the value of the existing fine arms you and I already own.

 

[Alistair]

Haha, fair enough.

I just figured that new cartridges coming to market = more options = more competition = lower prices.

Hornady seems to be one of the few companies that continues to show innovation with new cartridge designs.

The Ruger 375/416 for example opened up the market for what was traditionally limited to expensive Magnum length actions for more affordable rifles with standard length actions.

The cheapest Ruger 416 im currently seeing is $128.75 per box vs $219 for the Rigby. That's not insignificant.

It just feels like it's been decades since anything new has been released in the DG cartridge world.

I think there's two camps of big bore rounds right now:

Classic, chambered mostly (entirely?) in very expensive rifles, low demand, just about supported. Say 500ne, 470ne, 505Gibbs etc.

Attainable big bores chambered in normal factory rifles. Say 458win mag, 375H&H, 416Rem etc.

Any new innovation would fall into camp 2, as developing something in camp 1 would require offering a new rifle to suit it as Rigby et al. probably won't bother, and that comes with massive R&D cost for a gun very few would buy anyway.

So. A new big bore. It has to fit in a normal, non-magnum bolt action and be within recoil tolerance for most. So say 375-450 calibre. It also has to have some marketing gimmick that makes it compelling to consumers, and that too in a market where the key performance metrics have been very clearly defined and met just fine for nearly a century. That's a tricky one...

But here's the issue. Making a new cartridge ain't gonna grow the market for big bores. People who couldn't afford a double in 500ne can buy and afford a 458win mag, so you won't pull in new consumers in the way that the 458win mag did. That option already exists.

Instead, you'll just dilute the sales of all the other big bores even further. No one is going to see a new 400 calibre and say 'yep, that's what I was waiting for, now I'll book that buff hunt' and buy one. Instead, it's just another option for a very niche consumer base - us.

That brings us to the other problem. The reason that current big bore rifles and ammo is pricey isn't because of so much pent up demand, it's because the markets are extremely small.

Run lengths are tiny, sales velocity is glacial, it probably takes as long to change over a production line to produce say 470NE as the entire line time for the run itself. Adding another SKU just makes that worse, no better, and it's that staffing, change over time, inventory control, lost line efficiency and inconvenience cost that makes a box of 416Ruger cost over $100, not excessive market demand, or even component cost.

So if you're a manufacturer, why would you actively spend time and resources to gain basically 0 customers and even further reduce process efficiency on already marginal product lines?

With my corporate supply chain hat on, I just don't see it.

 

[RAVEN ROCKS PRECISION]

My thought too. I have a 450 Rigby and the number of ammo manufacturers continues to decrease. There isn’t enough regular demand for the existing cartridges.

Let us know if you need some more 450 Rigby Ammo.

 

[sgt_zim]

Has there been any news or rumours of new DG cartridges coming to market? I was thinking the other day who it would be to breath some new life into classic chamberings.

Hornady's PRC line came to mind, what about a 375PRC or .416 PRC? They currently top at at .30cal.

What about Ruger? They've already made 375 and 416 Ruger, how about a .458 Ruger? It's been 14 years since the 416 Ruger was announced.

I know the general trend on the rifle front is that less and less manufacturers are producing DG capable rifles in 2023, but I have hopes that someone will continue to produce new innovation on the ammo front.

Any ideas? Where are some current caps that a modern cartridge could help fill in?

I'd say that there are few people on earth more Romantic than we are. Newer cartridges lack the romance. Ruger has been somewhat successful in making utilitarian work for 375 and 416, but I think any further would just end up being mostly a bust.

Most of the cartridges at .366 or larger have been around for more than a century now. We like the old and tried and true, hearkening back to the times of Selous, Capstick, Teddy R, Hemingway, Bell, et al.

The only new cartridge I shoot is 280AI. I also shoot 308W and 5.56NATO, both of which have been around for 60+ years, and I still consider them in the NEW category as well. Of all the rest, my 404J is the newest of the lot, and that was introduced around 1909.

 

[stk]

You may not know this, but the parent cartridge for the PRC line is the 375 Ruger. So in a way, the 375 PRC and 416 PRC already exists, but to their friends they are simply known as the 375 Ruger and 416 Ruger.

Was about to say this! The .375 PRC already exists as the .375 Ruger…and it’s awesome.

 

[John Wasmuth]

Was about to say this! The .375 PRC already exists as the .375 Ruger…and it’s awesome.

If you’re not shooting the 9,3x62mm Mauser then shoot that!!

 

[TOBY458]

Haha, fair enough.

I just figured that new cartridges coming to market = more options = more competition = lower prices.

Hornady seems to be one of the few companies that continues to show innovation with new cartridge designs.

The Ruger 375/416 for example opened up the market for what was traditionally limited to expensive Magnum length actions for more affordable rifles with standard length actions.

The cheapest Ruger 416 im currently seeing is $128.75 per box vs $219 for the Rigby. That's not insignificant.

It just feels like it's been decades since anything new has been released in the DG cartridge world.

Hornady makes 416 Rigby for about $135-$140 per box.

 

[375Fox]

The cheapest Ruger 416 im currently seeing is $128.75 per box vs $219 for the Rigby. That's not insignificant.

Not sure where you are looking but looks like 416 Rigby is available $120-$130 per box hornady or barnes. 416 ruger $40 cheaper.

 

[pinotguy]

The only "new" dangerous game cartridge I can recall is the 10.3x68 Magnum that RWS introduced about five or six years ago. It was not designed solely with DG in mind, RWS viewed it as a modern 10.3mm (.413") for those cantons in Switzerland where this is the minimum caliber allowed for hunting.

 

[colorado]

I just want to find some more 500 Jeffery Jamison cases. I have a good stock of 570g TSX, A-Frames and Barnes Banded Solids.

 

[275r7x57]

Why?....

This is all that needs to be said!

Why???

 

[Newboomer]

This is all that needs to be said!

Why???

If one wants a new cartridge, wildcat an existing or invent one to suit the whim.

 

[DLSJR]

I’m of the mind that there are plenty enough great dangerous game cartridges already existing, no matter if your taste runs to doubles or bolt guns, historical or modern designs.

What we really need is more bullets, powder, PRIMERS and brass availability!

Instead of buying a new caliber rifle, spend that money on another buffalo hunt!

 

[Sika98k]

I know something about a British maker developing some new rounds. And thats all im saying

Oooh ! You tease !

 

[CoElkHunter]

I think there's two camps of big bore rounds right now:

Classic, chambered mostly (entirely?) in very expensive rifles, low demand, just about supported. Say 500ne, 470ne, 505Gibbs etc.

Attainable big bores chambered in normal factory rifles. Say 458win mag, 375H&H, 416Rem etc.

Any new innovation would fall into camp 2, as developing something in camp 1 would require offering a new rifle to suit it as Rigby et al. probably won't bother, and that comes with massive R&D cost for a gun very few would buy anyway.

So. A new big bore. It has to fit in a normal, non-magnum bolt action and be within recoil tolerance for most. So say 375-450 calibre. It also has to have some marketing gimmick that makes it compelling to consumers, and that too in a market where the key performance metrics have been very clearly defined and met just fine for nearly a century. That's a tricky one...

But here's the issue. Making a new cartridge ain't gonna grow the market for big bores. People who couldn't afford a double in 500ne can buy and afford a 458win mag, so you won't pull in new consumers in the way that the 458win mag did. That option already exists.

Instead, you'll just dilute the sales of all the other big bores even further. No one is going to see a new 400 calibre and say 'yep, that's what I was waiting for, now I'll book that buff hunt' and buy one. Instead, it's just another option for a very niche consumer base - us.

That brings us to the other problem. The reason that current big bore rifles and ammo is pricey isn't because of so much pent up demand, it's because the markets are extremely small.

Run lengths are tiny, sales velocity is glacial, it probably takes as long to change over a production line to produce say 470NE as the entire line time for the run itself. Adding another SKU just makes that worse, no better, and it's that staffing, change over time, inventory control, lost line efficiency and inconvenience cost that makes a box of 416Ruger cost over $100, not excessive market demand, or even component cost.

So if you're a manufacturer, why would you actively spend time and resources to gain basically 0 customers and even further reduce process efficiency on already marginal product lines?

With my corporate supply chain hat on, I just don't see it.

Very good analysis of the question at hand.

 

[Bonk]

In recent years Holland & Holland tried to get the 400H&H off and running but it never caught on. I briefly considered having one built but two things stopped me. Ammo/dies/components were nonexistent and the ballistics weren't any different than what was already available with any number of .40 caliber rifles.

In calibers 366/375 and bigger the consensus seems to be that big bullets moving at reasonable velocities is the best way to get things done. WIth the exception of 460 Weatherby there aren't any fast big bores I can think of and most of us don't want to deal with that kind of recoil anyway. Combined with the fact there aren't any real ballistic gaps between .40 - .50 cal I don't see the market for a new big bore magnum.

The main reason 375/416 Ruger took off is because you could get 375/416 performance in a regular length action. The ballistics aren't really any different from existing 375/416 calibers. All they did was fill some perceived need to have that power in a shorter than magnum length action and they sold reasonably well was because you could actually buy one whereas traditional 375/416 caliber rifles were less available and more expensive. They also partnered with Hornady to develop and market the caliber which helped a great deal. You could actually buy 375/416 Ruger ammo, brass and dies. I don't see that same dynamic transferring over to 450/458 calibers.

I also think very few people want a double rifle chambered in a modern caliber. Part of the charm of double rifles is tradition and nostalgia. If that weren't true we'd already see a bunch 460 Weatherby double rifles. They may exist but I've not seen or heard of one.

A lot of the people that enjoy big bore rifles seem to be nostalgic and tradition minded so I doubt a modern take on any .40+ caliber will sell enough to recoup the investment required to market it. Last but not least, the century old dogs are still getting it done just fine. YMMV