Posting photos of dead wild animals could be illegal soon

[Fred Gunner]

 

[Fred Gunner]

Reading both Documents I get the following:
1) Professional hunters are allowed to continue to use social media to display dead animals to advertise their business so long as they get approval?
2) hunters are forbidden to post their own hunts on social media.
3) So what happens when my PH posts a photo from my hunt on his Face Book page... But I'm forbidden to share that on my page?

I asked these very questions on NAPHA's Face Book page... Awaiting a reply?

 

[Royal27]

Interesting....

So NAPHA states, pretty clearly, that they support banning photos for all hunters based on the actions of a few.

Under this logic, shouldn't they also support banning hunting in Namibia? It would, after all, keep the few bad hunters and outfitters from breaking the law and this tarnishing the industry.

This is either very misguided and they are using a policy of appeasement as Chamberlain did, or there is some ulterior motive that NAPHA is pushing for, to their own benefit.

Again, it would be nice for a member or representative of NAPHA to come forward and speak to the community.

 

[cagkt3]

I think every province has a human rights commission, by one name or another. And they can chase you if you discriminate against people, or violate human rights, but you generally have to be an employer or a business. Individuals can usually express themselves freely, subject to our criminal laws. So not a lot different than what, for example, that organization in Colorado which went after a baker who refused to bake a cake for a gay wedding. I think many states have these organizations. Most of ours are a waste of space and air, but they can often be counted on to produce the most bizarre decisions imaginable.

Canada's criminal laws - which are federal - do define "hate speech" and you can be charged if you try to stir up hatred against an identifiable group. Because these are criminal laws, the threshold is pretty high, and the law is rarely used. But again, it's probably not a lot different than the "fighting words" exception to the US Bill of Rights.

But if you're asking if I support these things, that depends. I support things that help us live in a peaceful, civilized society. Not everyone learns what they should from their parents, apparently, so sometimes we need to reinforce what makes the world work.

But here's where it counts. There are no limits in Canada on political speech, as long as you don't counsel violence. Same in the US.

Here's another tidbit, if you want to compare the two countries. Canada incarcerates 114 people per hundred thousand of population. The US incarcerates 655, or about 5 times as many on a per capita basis as Canada. That is the highest (reported) rate in the world. Yes, the world. Either y'all have a lot of criminals in the US, or you make up reasons to put people in jail. It's not like we let criminals walk around freely in Canada - we're safer on almost every metric, if not every metric, than the US.

As long as we're on free speech, here's my favorite difference between Canada and the US. In the US, it's a crime to lie to federal officers. You can go to jail for that, even if you've committed no substantive crime. Ask Martha Stewart. In Canada, we have complete freedom to tell any federal officer to pound sand, or lie to our heart's content. Now, I call that freedom of speech!

With all of that, have a great 4th of July weekend. I have no doubt that the Founding Fathers wanted the 4th to always fall on a Monday or a Friday, but the people in charge of the calendars weren't notified . . . my kids (all of whom live in the US) seem to have found a way to have a very long weekend anyway . . .

I guess I was really just asking your opinion on the differences, and if they were really that different in practical terms.

Thanks again for the discussion Hank, like I said - always enjoy your perspective.

 

[Royal27]

But I'm forbidden to share that on my page?

I hear there is really good leopard hunting in Zim, Zam, and Moz. If this is a big deal to you it may be time to ask for your deposit back. Is your outfitter a NAPHA member?

 

[WAB]

So I'll pose my question again, is AH considered social media? If so, are we prohibited from sharing photos of Namibian hunts with each other? If so, it sounds like Namibia is getting crossed off the list. I don't hunt for photos, but photos allow me to more effectively share my experiences with my friends. I'll go to a country that doesn't want to involve itself in my personal life.

 

[Fred Gunner]

I hear there is really good leopard hunting in Zim, Zam, and Moz. If this is a big deal to you it may be time to ask for your deposit back. Is your outfitter a NAPHA member?

RIPCord Rescue Travel Insurance is paid for... This will not stop my hunt.
I've saved and waited I life time for this so this will not stop me from living the dream.
That being said... I have every right to challenge them for changing the rules in the middle of the game.
I have a friend hunting in Namibia now. Two days into the hunt after he had already posted photos of his first kill they issued his PH the Memo.

 

[Royal27]

So I'll pose my question again, is AH considered social media? If so, are we prohibited from sharing photos of Namibian hunts with each other? If so, it sounds like Namibia is getting crossed off the list. I don't hunt for photos, but photos allow me to more effectively share my experiences with my friends. I'll go to a country that doesn't want to involve itself in my personal life.

I don't think there is any doubt. AH is social media. And as poorly worded as the official statement was I also believe it is clear that hunter trophy photos are not allowed.

I'm in the same boat. I respect Namibia's right to make this decision, but I will not allow them to censor me outside of their country. Good luck to them.

 

[IdaRam]

AH is definitely Social Media by any definition I can think of. I’m quite certain MET and NAPHA would say the same thing.

Hard to know where to even start with that latest release from NAPHA. It would certainly be helpful if they would do a better job clarifying when they are referring to NAPHA members and when they are referring non-NAPHA individuals such as foreign hunters. I can’t tell half the time when they are talking about just members of their own organization, Namibian citizens, foreign hunters, everyone on the planet?

And good lord, does NAPHA really think anti hunting groups need any provocation to throw a fit? They seem very willing to manufacture their own “provocations” if need be.
I agree that there are alot of pics that should not be posted publicly but they are anyway and it frustrates the hell out of me when I see them, but this policy is just plain absurd.

 

[IdaRam]

or there is some ulterior motive that NAPHA is pushing for, to their own benefit.

Again, it would be nice for a member or representative of NAPHA to come forward and speak to the community.

Hmmm... you mean like control and financial gain? Nah, no one does that.

Yes, NAPHA does seem to be very under-represented here.

 

[WAB]

Hmmm... you mean like control and financial gain? Nah, no one does that.

Yes, NAPHA does seem to be very under-represented here.

I think they are underestimating our willingness to vote with our wallets.

 

[Fred Gunner]

"environment and tourism minister Pohamba Shifeta said the ministry is working on having the Nature Conservation Ordinance 4 of 1975 amended to prohibit and punish individuals who post photos with dead wild animals on social media."

Key words here are "is working on"
In the USA that means any Politician or bureaucrats can propose that a law be made or changed...in most cases it never happens.

Does anyone here know how it works in Namibia? Can the environment and tourism minister change a law on his own?

Does his memo have the force of law behind it? Like when the U.S. Fish and Game issues a regulation without congress passing a new law?

 

[James hays]

Outfitters main resource for advertising is social media and web pages. This dumb ass idea will really handicap the hunting industry. Too many people rely on hunting for a livelihood from the outfitters down to the cleaning staff. I would not pick an outfitter for a hunt unless I could see the trophy pics.

 

[Fred Gunner]

Outfitters main resource for advertising is social media and web pages. This dumb ass idea will really handicap the hunting industry. Too many people rely on hunting for a livelihood from the outfitters down to the cleaning staff. I would not pick an outfitter for a hunt unless I could see the trophy pics.

Mine sends me Game cam photos of Leopards on baits. (live at the time no foul?)

 

[John Struewing]

As I said earlier in this thread, posting trophy pics in places full of left loons is just asking for criticism, so go ahead post away, but be prepared for backlash, death threats, and all the rest. As far as Namibia goes, I think the suggestion that they could make posting on FB or anywhere else for that matter illegal, is just a little out of their jurisdiction. I have no immediate plans to return there, so I don't care anyway, I so p'o'd the customs gal upon leaving she read me the riot act for questioning something, so they probably have a poster with my face on it, that says NO ENTRY!

I guess that is why I feel that this place is different, thank you @SEStoppleman, i said that AH is different because there are not a bunch of liberal lefties watch to jump on everything that is posted here. They are afraid of us because we shoot things.

 

[sestoppelman]

Believe it not there are a couple here... hunters and shooters, yes.. but also.....well, you know....

 

[BenKK]

Believe it not there are a couple here... hunters and shooters, yes.. but also.....well, you know....

Sorry, mate. Not sure what you mean. I’m a hunter who is supportive of the idea proposed in Namibia, but I would happily break bread with hunters who disagree with me. I’m just trying to figure-out if I am one of those referred to in your comment. Cheers, Ben

 

[Scott CWO]

You'll find that freedom of speech and natural rights are inshrined in our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. There are no restrictions on free speech or freedom of expression anywhere in the USA... Our Supreme Court even went so far as to rule that burning the American Flag was protected Speech.

In the USA, freedom of speech is limited to free speech against the government. We don'y have freedom of speech against our employers or other citizens. We can't just say anything we want about employers or other citizens but we can to the government.

This move by Namibia is throwing in the towel. We need to educate the non-hunting masses, not run scared of the AH crowd.

 

[JPbowhunter]

In the USA, freedom of speech is limited to free speech against the government. We don'y have freedom of speech against our employers or other citizens. We can't just say anything we want about employers or other citizens but we can to the government.

This move by Namibia is throwing in the towel. We need to educate the non-hunting masses, not run scared of the AH crowd.

And if education came at the cost of not throwing controversial pics in the general public sphere but rather simply promoting the messaging of hunting would you support it?

I can tell you in all honesty i have convinced several anti hunters and a few more fence sitters to the positives of gunting but it was never done with photos of dead animals

 

[BenKK]

Couldn’t agree more, JPbowhunter. Flaunting pictures of myself with dead animals - especially African - would not win any hearts in my life. I have shared such pictures in the past but it’s increasingly no longer in my best interests to do so. However, I can win hearts and minds just by sharing my passion for wildlife - including live nature and scenery photos, even some tasteful ones of me with a rifle being present in the outdoors (some people think hunters kill and kill and kill, and I try to show this isn’t the case), and explaining the situation there (Africa). When presented like that people actually listen and understand. People know I hunt in Africa sometimes, but because I don’t put photos they’d rather not see under their noses they’re more inclined to accept me and what I do, and listen to the reasons why (if it comes-up).