Politics

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I’ve spent the last hour or so reading over the last several pages of this thread and it reminded me of a scene in the 1966 movie the professionals staring Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster.

“ maybe there is only one revolution sense the beginning , the good guys against the bad guys the question is are we the good guys”

Most of you gentleman advocate for the use of force to put down the riots going on currently in L.A. ( And rightly so in my opinion ) the problem as I see it is that the actions taken to suppress the riots will only be used by the left to justify more riots.
There needs to be a fundamental change in society where we can get away from this tit for tat justification of actions and find some common ground to turn the temperature down or we may well end up fighting a civil war across the entire North American continent.

 

[mdwest]

I’ve spent the last hour or so reading over the last several pages of this thread and it reminded me of a scene in the 1966 movie the professionals staring Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster.

“ maybe there is only one revolution sense the beginning , the good guys against the bad guys the question is are we the good guys”

Most of you gentleman advocate for the use of force to put down the riots going on currently in L.A. ( And rightly so in my opinion ) the problem as I see it is that the actions taken to suppress the riots will only be used by the left to justify more riots.
There needs to be a fundamental change in society where we can get away from this tit for tat justification of actions and find some common ground to turn the temperature down or we may well end up fighting a civil war across the entire North American continent.

truth in your statements..

its not a coincidence however that the overwhelming majority of large scale riots (as well as large scale legitimately peaceful protests) in this country over the last several decades have been executed by far left extremist groups or racial minority groups during the tenure of Republican presidents..

The exception would be the Fergusson and Baltimore race riots that happened after the shooting deaths of Brown and Gray respectively during the Obama administration.. but Obama himself had a LOT of influence on those riots and pretty much encouraged them with his racial rhetoric, demeaning of law enforcement, and refusal to hold the rioters accountable....

When Democrats hold power the malcontent millionaires and billionaires generally refrain from sponsoring and funding large scale events..

Christina Walton (one of the richest woman in the US.. possibly the world?) is now funding a protest movement of her own.. will be interesting to see how that turns out..

Shes another very liberal activist that after inheriting her husbands fortune (she married one of Sam Waltons sons) got very involved in funding left wing movements.. she traditionally stays quiet during D administrations and sticks to funding philanthropies like the San Diego Zoo and the arts.. but whenever there is an R in office millions get spent on political activism.. between 2002-2006 I think she donated more than $3B to various causes and charities.. some good things that have nothing to do with politics and everything to do with charity... many however went straight into pushing leftist agendas..

I don't think her timing with her planned Anti-Trump protests is coincidence or accidental..

Billionaire Walmart Heiress Urges People To ‘Mobilize’ At June 14 Anti-Trump Protests

The 76-year-old Christy Walton has aligned herself with “No Kings,” an organization planning mass protests across the country this Saturday.

www.forbes.com

No Kings

On June 14—Flag Day—Donald Trump wants tanks in the street and a made-for-TV display of dominance for his birthday. A spectacle meant to look like strength. But real power isn’t staged in Washington. It rises up everywhere else.

www.nokings.org

I also don't think that its a coincidence that most of her protest sites are compacted into the North Eastern US, the West Coast, and the Chicago area.. (where she knows law enforcement will be inclined to do little to nothing about it).. and that while they have sites lined up in Texas and other traditionally red location, their plan is to do minor things like hang signs over interstate overpasses there...

 

[Tanks]

Shes another very liberal activist that after inheriting her husbands fortune (she married one of Sam Waltons sons) got very involved in funding left wing movements..

Very similar to Bezos' ex-wife and Jobs widow. I wonder if they feel guilty for the billions they received for making a profitable marriage and feel they have to fund the left-wing causes.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Who pays them?

NGOs, Non profits, I bet some of this could be tied back to the DNC.

Here is a quick article though from a right leaning website.

Taxpayer-Funded Riots: Here's What We Found When We Followed the Money in Los Angeles

redstate.com

Also, if you can explain to me how a known member of the BLM Utah branch happen to be next to Ashley Babbitt when she was shot in the capital, I would love your take.

 

[cwpayton]

No..but America is clearly getting more and more divided politically..

pondoroooo ,you have a disconnect between your ears, are you greta thornbergs daddy, sweden is so high on marijuanna they cant even decide if they favor immigration [invasion] or not. the last thing your country did good was invent the 6.5x55. so shut the f up . look at your own stupid messed up politics.

 

[Hillbilly Marine]

Well, it seems I kicked up a hornets nest with my semi-serious idea to spray the rioting dipshits with gasoline to stop them from using fire. Oh well, I have a second idea that everyone should be able to agree upon. I prefer tactics that will rapidly change the situation, whether a riot or a firefight.

I know that California has many "firebombers" that carry hundreds, if not thousands of gallons of water or fire retardant. I repaired the Bambibuckets by the hundreds at MCAS Tustin back when I was a younger Marine and many more in Kaneohe Bay where I saw them work magic. Load these aircraft up and make a few runs on the rioters. That would be a wonderful little sight to run across the news cameras.

Now I can be accused of waterboarding!!
SEMPER FI

 

[Field28]

Problem is, when that scumbag dies, he has P.O.S kids who will carry on with Daddy's agenda.

Yep

 

[Tbitty]

J-6:
50,000+ peaceful protestors
2,000 protestors went on to the Capitol of which 1,575 were arrested mostly for non-violent trespass...
Approximately 600 were charged with assault or impedance of law enforcement, and
of those 600, 174 were charged with felonies...

Contrary to what the media would have you believe, there were no law enforcement officers killed during the J-6 riot. The only death was an unarmed protester named Ashli Babbit, a U.S. Military veteran, who was fatally shot by a Capitol police officer who was never charged with murder...

What the media also fails to acknowledge is that every single person arrested on J-6 was denied due process... Trump's pardons were for those charged unfairly, and others adjudicated for time already served that exceeded the normal sentence of said crimes...

Can you please cite a specific example of Trump's contempt or disobedience for any U.S. Court decision? Let me save you some time, there are none... Do not confuse Trump's criticism of Lawfare with actual contempt or failure to follow the rule of law by any U.S. Court...



I agree the numbers you cite are debatable... There should be more like 10,000 National Guardsmen, and 5,000 Marines to adequately disperse the unrest...

Regardless, the Marines are not there to engage with U.S. Citizens who are LAWFULLY protesting. They are there to protect Federal property and back up law enforcement...



Again, you are not hearing what so many have tried to convey to you in this discussion... There is an enormous difference between lawful, peaceful protest and rioting... Even the few legitimate protesters that may be in attendance are doing so without a permit... That is called unlawful assembly, and therefore technically breaking the law...



The events that occurred at Kent State is not the same situation by a mile...

Regardless, U.S. Citizen or not, those who are protesting legally and peacefully, have nothing to fear in these riots... Criminals, not so much....

@Pondoro - the above from @BSO Dave pretty much mimicks my response. To save me typing time on my phone, and everyone re-reading nearly the same thing, Ill let his answer fill in for mine.

I will add a few notes though.

1) Trump offered to send National Guard to DC for Jan 6. Nancy Pelosi refused it and is on video saying it was her fault. Perhaps that's one reason of many why Trump isn't asking Newsome this time - he's just doing it.

1A) you didn't answer my question. Would you rather have your home in the middle of the LA Riots now, or in the middle of the DC Jan 6 events?

4) the Kent St shooting was OVER 50 YEARS AGO. I give zero validity to citing that example as reason to say the NG or USMC in LA are or will do the same. ... IF it does happen, I will weigh in then.

Finally, you didn't answer my last question either: Do you support the LA Rioters in their actions, exactly as they are unfolding over the past several days, and feel they are in the right to continue without any intervention?

 

[Datchew]

my aerial door gunner quals are a couple decades out of date, but if Cali secedes and declares war on the union... I could be talked into signing back up. Hell put me on horseback with a pistol.

(besides... the new minigun is soooooo much cooler than the old m60)

 

[cwpayton]

Well, it seems I kicked up a hornets nest with my semi-serious idea to spray the rioting dipshits with gasoline to stop them from using fire. Oh well, I have a second idea that everyone should be able to agree upon. I prefer tactics that will rapidly change the situation, whether a riot or a firefight.

I know that California has many "firebombers" that carry hundreds, if not thousands of gallons of water or fire retardant. I repaired the Bambibuckets by the hundreds at MCAS Tustin back when I was a younger Marine and many more in Kaneohe Bay where I saw them work magic. Load these aircraft up and make a few runs on the rioters. That would be a wonderful little sight to run across the news cameras.

Now I can be accused of waterboarding!!
SEMPER FI

why not agent orange !

 

[Field28]

LMFAO, Newsome gives a live address on X and the audio didn't work!!!

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I’ve spent the last hour or so reading over the last several pages of this thread and it reminded me of a scene in the 1966 movie the professionals staring Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster.

“ maybe there is only one revolution sense the beginning , the good guys against the bad guys the question is are we the good guys”

Most of you gentleman advocate for the use of force to put down the riots going on currently in L.A. ( And rightly so in my opinion ) the problem as I see it is that the actions taken to suppress the riots will only be used by the left to justify more riots.
There needs to be a fundamental change in society where we can get away from this tit for tat justification of actions and find some common ground to turn the temperature down or we may well end up fighting a civil war across the entire North American continent.

I bolded what I wanted to respond to.

I’m actually not certain if this is the case. At least not exactly. One of the things that has seriously hurt Democrats nationally and in California has been that they are soft of crime. Videos of people boldly robbing stores because DAs are not interested or unable to prosecute were a big element of the Republican victory in November.

The porous border was also a major factor.

I believe that the images in the news of burning Democrat controlled cities definitely hurt the party on the national level among independents and even more moderate Democrats. The needle that Trump has to thread is not being too heavy handed.

The optics I see are like this: thugs are attacking federal agents trying to deport illegals (which Americans nominally support based on the election), riots that include property damage and the waving of foreign flags don’t look good to middle America, Newsome and the mayor of LA have failed to act, as they failed to act in the Palisade fires, and failed to act on the homeless crisis, president Trump has acted to restore law and order when others have not (law and order was a campaign point).

With all that in mind, the people who hate ICE were never going to support Trump. The rioters and looters were never going to support Trump. Those who like Newsome and the mayor were never going to support Trump.

Thus, if Trump can handle this without the appearance of extreme suppression, I think he wins. The people wanting law and order, including moderates, want this sorted out. Short of rolling tanks over the rioters, I think he has a pretty free hand. The far left will cry “brutality” if they get a skinned knee but I think the middle is open to tear gas, batons, and rubber bullets if it means the streets are no longer on fire.

While I personally believe that lethal force could be justified in some situations here, Trump should avoid it at nearly all costs. If he can get through this with no deaths, it will really take the wind out of the Dems sails.

I think Newsome is cooked. He will probably never be president. Nobody wants the California they’ve been seeing on tv the last several years.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

I bolded what I wanted to respond to.

I’m actually not certain if this is the case. At least not exactly. One of the things that has seriously hurt Democrats nationally and in California has been that they are soft of crime. Videos of people boldly robbing stores because DAs are not interested or unable to prosecute were a big element of the Republican victory in November.

The porous border was also a major factor.

I believe that the images in the news of burning Democrat controlled cities definitely hurt the party on the national level among independents and even more moderate Democrats. The needle that Trump has to thread is not being too heavy handed.

The optics I see are like this: thugs are attacking federal agents trying to deport illegals (which Americans nominally support based on the election), riots that include property damage and the waving of foreign flags don’t look good to middle America, Newsome and the mayor of LA have failed to act, as they failed to act in the Palisade fires, and failed to act on the homeless crisis, president Trump has acted to restore law and order when others have not (law and order was a campaign point).

With all that in mind, the people who hate ICE were never going to support Trump. The rioters and looters were never going to support Trump. Those who like Newsome and the mayor were never going to support Trump.

Thus, if Trump can handle this without the appearance of extreme suppression, I think he wins. The people wanting law and order, including moderates, want this sorted out. Short of rolling tanks over the rioters, I think he has a pretty free hand. The far left will cry “brutality” if they get a skinned knee but I think the middle is open to tear gas, batons, and rubber bullets if it means the streets are no longer on fire.

While I personally believe that lethal force could be justified in some situations here, Trump should avoid it at nearly all costs. If he can get through this with no deaths, it will really take the wind out of the Dems sails.

I think Newsome is cooked. He will probably never be president. Nobody wants the California they’ve been seeing on tv the last several years.

You could well be right I haven’t been following the news close as of late and only periodically checking in on here I’ve had a loss in my personal life taking most of my time. I probably should have said far left in place of left in that post.

I would note though that less lethal still has the potential to be lethal and that should be considered. One stray bullet even a rubber one kills a honest protester or civilian instead of a combatant and you’ve just made a martyr most likely live on air. I know the historical reference to Kent was dismissed by the collective as outdated but think of the mileage “the anti Vietnam cause” got out of it, Four dead in Ohio still gets airplay. Cool heads doing there jobs with the minimum amount of force necessary is the smart play not cowboys spraying gasoline agent orange or any other nonsense ideas.

 

[SaintPanzer]

US Marines have also been deployed prior to this to help with riots in Los Angeles. 1/7 Marines deployed from Camp Pendleton in California in 1992 when the Rodney King riots became too much for the LAPD, California State Police, and California National Guard to handle..

Minor point of order: 1st and 5th Marine Regiments are (and were in 1992) based in Camp Pendleton. 7th Marine Regiment is based in Twentynine Palms.

FWIW, I was involved in some of the logistics of deploying the Alert MAGTF back in '92.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Trying hard to remember the fireworks, molotov cocktails and rock throwing back in Kent State. Yes, the Ohio National Guard responded "inappropriately". But the Kent State protests were nothing like what's going on in LA.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Trying hard to remember the fireworks, molotov cocktails and rock throwing back in Kent State. Yes, the Ohio National Guard responded "inappropriately". But the Kent State protests were nothing like what's going on in LA.

I’m not arguing that they are the same I’m saying once the media got ahold of it it wouldn’t of mattered if they were ritualisticly murdering puppies the only part that would make the news was the dead college kids and the same will happen with these riots if there is a body count regardless of the circumstances it will be reported that trump ordered marines in that opened fire on civilians. Some new agencies will have an outcry some will try to justify the actions of the marines, we will all type up responses not knowing all of the facts drawing our own conclusions with varying degrees of civility and then @Munnik will post someone else’s hit piece on trump.

 

[1dirthawker]

Remember CNN "mostly peaceful" protests with City burning in the background. It will not change Democrat minds.

isn't that a shame.

 

[barryk]

I’ve spent the last hour or so reading over the last several pages of this thread and it reminded me of a scene in the 1966 movie the professionals staring Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster.

“ maybe there is only one revolution sense the beginning , the good guys against the bad guys the question is are we the good guys”

Most of you gentleman advocate for the use of force to put down the riots going on currently in L.A. ( And rightly so in my opinion ) the problem as I see it is that the actions taken to suppress the riots will only be used by the left to justify more riots.
There needs to be a fundamental change in society where we can get away from this tit for tat justification of actions and find some common ground to turn the temperature down or we may well end up fighting a civil war across the entire North American continent.

Whatever it takes to maintain law and order....if that requires an escalation to do that...so be it. That the Left will use escalation actions to suppress riots to justify more riots wouldn't matter if they were arrested, held accountable for breaking the law, and punished. Because that has not happened on any scale, the same crap continues....year after year. I've watched riots and destruction in this country since 1968...the chaos continues.....and will......however, I remain optimistic that buttheads will be held accountable......but also skeptical in the reality of it. Just watched on Laura Ingram tonight as some dickhead threw concrete chunks at passing patrol cars...asshole....needs his mobility reduced.

 

[steve white]

So if this unrest is spreading to other major cities over the US..should the army be deployed full scale or should the police handle it..?

No, Soros should be jailed and massively fined for funding it. There I said it--he is indirectly paying for the brick pallets.

 

[steve white]

No..but America is clearly getting more and more divided politically..

so is Europe?....only you are actually LOSING to the Muslims in your countries, with no real opposition in sight. Get ready to see your women in burkas.