Politics

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Very good explanation.
However like I said whatever system you live under, electoral college or pure majority system, when only %50-60 of the people vote it's not very healthy and it does not reflect the real will of the people.
Even worse in local elections...

I won't argue that it's sad that we have such a low voter participation rate. Especially so when so many in this world wish they could have a choice in their government. Why that is I can only chock up to people being spoiled since they don't know what it's like to live in a totalitarian system and/or for whatever reason they think their vote doesn't matter.

Couldn't say for sure, but relying on statistics greatly in what I do, I don't have to have a 100% sample size to establish trends. So I'm not sure that if we had 100% voter participation that the result would be much if any different with a 50-60% rate. It's still a large sample size.

 

[sestoppelman]

Very good explanation.
However like I said whatever system you live under, electoral college or pure majority system, when only %50-60 of the people vote it's not very healthy and it does not reflect the real will of the people.
Even worse in local elections...

But it does reflect the real will of the people, those who want to vote. And for those who cant be bothered, they have to live with the results of the elections that those who did vote decided, for them.

 

[Red Leg]

But it does reflect the real will of the people, those who want to vote. And for those who cant be bothered, they have to live with the results of the elections that those who did vote decided, for them.

I won't argue that it's sad that we have such a low voter participation rate. Especially so when so many in this world wish they could have a choice in their government. Why that is I can only chock up to people being spoiled since they don't know what it's like to live in a totalitarian system and/or for whatever reason they think their vote doesn't matter.

Couldn't say for sure, but relying on statistics greatly in what I do, I don't have to have a 100% sample size to establish trends. So I'm not sure that if we had 100% voter participation that the result would be much if any different with a 50-60% rate. It's still a large sample size.

I think it also reflects a generally satisfied population. The relatively high turn out the last two presidential cycles is fairly unique and tends to reflect the fairly high level of political tension currently in the country rather than voters reflecting on their civic duty.

And yes, thank God we have a republic rather than a democracy (which perhaps one in a dozen people in this country actually understand and virtually no "citizen of the world" from a parliamentary system) . Our system took much from the Achaean League and relatively little from Athens. Perhaps its greatest quality is the prevention of the tyranny of geographic or class majorities.

 

[Doubleplay]

But it does reflect the real will of the people, those who want to vote. And for those who cant be bothered, they have to live with the results of the elections that those who did vote decided, for them.

I think people are either happy or don't believe anything will change in the big picture regardless who the President is.
A great example of that is Switzerland a very wealthy and stable country where voting %'s are even lower than us.

 

[cpr0312]

 

[cpr0312]

 

[sgt_zim]

Very good explanation.
However like I said whatever system you live under, electoral college or pure majority system, when only %50-60 of the people vote it's not very healthy and it does not reflect the real will of the people.
Even worse in local elections...

I'm quite happy voter turnout isn't any higher than it is. A great many of the number who do vote are woefully uninformed. and shouldn't be voting in the first place.

 

[BSO Dave]

Perhaps its greatest quality is the prevention of the tyranny of geographic or class majorities.

Well, in theory yes...

However, I don't think the founders ever envisioned that it would be possible for one party to become so radicalized that they would be willing to use that majority control to disregard the Constitution... As I'm sure you are well aware, if the democrats should ever gain control of the House, Senate, and the Oval Office, they will stack the Courts, abolish the filibuster & the electoral college, grant statehood to D.C. & PR, all of which will do irreparable harm to our current Republic that was designed to prevent these very things from happening... For the last 3.5 years they have already changed the future voting demographics by deliberately allowing in millions of illegals ensuring this control into perpetuity that nothing short of actual revolution will reverse...

If you don't think geographic and class tyranny already exists, try being a conservative in a deep blue state...

 

[spike.t]

Vomit inducing.....lost for words.....

Survey showing UK’s loss of pride in its past is encouraging, says historian

Public choosing ‘Shakespeare over invasion’ and becoming more discerning about Britain’s history, says Alan Lester

www.theguardian.com

 

[Neophyte]

It's not an accusation. it's historical fact. Even FDR, although he was in favor of Israel becoming a country, refused access to the Jews who fled Europe before and during WW II. It is a safe bet that none of the protesters that scream " From the river to the sea!" are Trump supporters.

You just named one of the three worst presidents, I don’t respect them or their office so I refuse to capitalize the office, in American history.

With the political division in this country I see massive civil unrest on the horizon in the very near future. Personally I would welcome a division along political and geographical boundaries. Washington D.C. has failed us because we the people were asleep. We voted for the free stuff and in doing so enslaved ourselves.

It’s time to start over and maybe this time the right side will win the second War Of Northern Aggression. I’m a big proponent of States Rights and believe that about 90% of the federal government is unconstitutional. It takes twelve nails to nail a coffin shut. Eleven of them are already in. It’s just a matter of time until that twelfth nail is driven.

 

[Doubleplay]

Well, in theory yes...

However, I don't think the founders ever envisioned that it would be possible for one party to become so radicalized that they would be willing to use that majority control to disregard the Constitution... As I'm sure you are well aware, if the democrats should ever gain control of the House, Senate, and the Oval Office, they will stack the Courts, abolish the filibuster & the electoral college, grant statehood to D.C. & PR, all of which will do irreparable harm to our current Republic that was designed to prevent these very things from happening... For the last 3.5 years they have already changed the future voting demographics by deliberately allowing in millions of illegals ensuring this control into perpetuity that nothing short of actual revolution will reverse...

If you don't think geographic and class tyranny already exists, try being a conservative in a deep blue state...

What revolution you’re talking about?
Also why do you think everyone coming into this country legally or illegally will vote one way or the other when they have the right to vote?
Because they came in when Brandon was president?
Yes illegal immigration doubled during this administration but there were millions of illegals coming in even when Trump was president.
When people establish themselves in a new place they generally oppose the new comers and don’t want them.
Because they don’t want to share the wealth and resources.
I call it Mayflower syndrome.
I won’t be surprised if most of the immigrants coming in now votes for anti immigration policies in the future.

 

[Red Leg]

You just named one of the three worst presidents, I don’t respect them or their office so I refuse to capitalize the office, in American history.

With the political division in this country I see massive civil unrest on the horizon in the very near future. Personally I would welcome a division along political and geographical boundaries. Washington D.C. has failed us because we the people were asleep. We voted for the free stuff and in doing so enslaved ourselves.

It’s time to start over and maybe this time the right side will win the second War Of Northern Aggression. I’m a big proponent of States Rights and believe that about 90% of the federal government is unconstitutional. It takes twelve nails to nail a coffin shut. Eleven of them are already in. It’s just a matter of time until that twelfth nail is driven.

That is the issue with our current "divide." It is political and cultural, not geographic. Even in red states like Florida and Texas, they are red by only a few percentage points. There is no geographic divide to exploit. Any civil unrest in this country in this century would have far more in common with the Spanish Civil War of the last century than the American experience in 1860. The Spanish Civil War was a far more brutal and far more destructive conflict.

The red/blue state and county maps tell us very little because they do not account for population density. This is a population based map of the 2016 election. Red and blue America look easily divisible by state and county - but not by vote. Any such violence would be chatastrohically destructive.

This is a more complete discussion of the issue and far clearer charts.

Is the US Leaning Red or Blue? It All Depends on Your Map

Self-proclaimed "cartonerd" Ken Field published a gallery of alternative election maps designed to reveal markedly different stories about the US.

www.wired.com

 

[sgt_zim]

How Navy chiefs conspired to get themselves illegal warship Wi-Fi

A scathing Navy investigation reveals how USS Manchester's enlisted leaders endangered their ship with an unauthorized Starlink Wi-Fi setup.

www.navytimes.com

 

[sgt_zim]

Well, in theory yes...

However, I don't think the founders ever envisioned that it would be possible for one party to become so radicalized that they would be willing to use that majority control to disregard the Constitution... As I'm sure you are well aware, if the democrats should ever gain control of the House, Senate, and the Oval Office, they will stack the Courts, abolish the filibuster & the electoral college, grant statehood to D.C. & PR, all of which will do irreparable harm to our current Republic that was designed to prevent these very things from happening... For the last 3.5 years they have already changed the future voting demographics by deliberately allowing in millions of illegals ensuring this control into perpetuity that nothing short of actual revolution will reverse...

If you don't think geographic and class tyranny already exists, try being a conservative in a deep blue state...

I think you (and most) may not appreciate how deep the rabbit hole actually goes.

It takes a Total Fertility Rate (TFR) of 2.1 to maintain a population at status quo ante. Since the 1970s, we've only hit 2.1 a couple times, mostly we're well below 2.1.

In 1980, the population of this country was around 225 million. Today, we're at ~340 million. Given our TFR, this means our entire population expansion in the last 44 years was due entirely to immigration, legal or otherwise.

No country can handle that sort of influx of immigrants and retain the identity that made it such a valued destination for immigrants. The die is cast, I'm afraid.

 

[freefall]

I'm quite happy voter turnout isn't any higher than it is. A great many of the number who do vote are woefully uninformed. and shouldn't be voting in the first place.

A lot of them are dead in Blue districts.