Politics

[Wheels]

Nothing really new in the Durham report that we didn't already know.

No new criminal referrals or indictments even though massive wrong doing by government employees is referenced.

The only good thing to come out of the report is those that aren't already informed can go to a single source to get most of their information.

 

[fourfive8]

Yep, likely not much to happen- with a completely complicit and corrupt DOJ and MSM running cover. Sadly just a continuation of the Obama, Rice, Comey, Hillary, Slick Willie saga reported, thus viewed, as a benign footnote of history.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[Doug3006]

Reports out of Ukraine last night claim that 16 Russian missiles were launched and all 16 were shot down. Telemetry confirms their claim. What’s more, 6 of them were the new Kinzahl supersonic jobs. I believe there‘s only one operational Patriot battery in Kiev. If all 6 Kinzahl missiles were downed by the Patriot or the lesser systems or a combination of both, it means that the world can stop worrying about Russia’s…and maybe China’s….much touted new missiles. They can be shot down.

 

[VertigoBE]

Reports out of Ukraine last night claim that 16 Russian missiles were launched and all 16 were shot down. Telemetry confirms their claim. What’s more, 6 of them were the new Kinzahl supersonic jobs. I believe there‘s only one operational Patriot battery in Kiev. If all 6 Kinzahl missiles were downed by the Patriot or the lesser systems or a combination of both, it means that the world can stop worrying about Russia’s…and maybe China’s….much touted new missiles. They can be shot down.

The report I read, sounded a bit differently… where the patriot system was destroyed by one of those hypersonic missiles. The missiles downed, were not of the hypersonic variant.

Hopefully our resident professional @Red Leg can shed some light.

 

[Doug3006]

The report I read, sounded a bit differently… where the patriot system was destroyed by one of those hypersonic missiles. The missiles downed, were not of the hypersonic variant.

Hopefully our resident professional @Red Leg can shed some light.

Sounds like I read the Ukrainian report and you read the Russian! The truth is sometimes hard to find.

 

[Jfet]

Reports out of Ukraine last night claim that 16 Russian missiles were launched and all 16 were shot down. Telemetry confirms their claim. What’s more, 6 of them were the new Kinzahl supersonic jobs. I believe there‘s only one operational Patriot battery in Kiev. If all 6 Kinzahl missiles were downed by the Patriot or the lesser systems or a combination of both, it means that the world can stop worrying about Russia’s…and maybe China’s….much touted new missiles. They can be shot down.

The report I read, sounded a bit differently… where the patriot system was destroyed by one of those hypersonic missiles. The missiles downed, were not of the hypersonic variant.

Hopefully our resident professional @Red Leg can shed some light.

Here is a middle of the road explanation

 

[Wheels]

I certainly don't know anything about this Russian Kinzahl missile other than it is supposed to be hypersonic. It seems it would be extremely difficult for a Patriot system to take a hypersonic missile out.

Perhaps a better assumption was the Kinzahl's were duds and took themselves out.

 

[Red Leg]

The preponderance of the non-Russian reporting seems to indicate that the Kinzahl missile barrage was successfully intercepted. Damage within Kyiv, which seems to have been the primary target, was light and consistent with debris from overhead engagements, not warhead impacts. Patriot intercept of such a fast mover would be at fairly close range, so it is entirely possible a damaged missile impacted within the battery deployment footprint. The missile employs a roughly thousand pound warhead, so should one have landed in a battery footprint, damage to elements would be likely, but "destruction" would be impossible with a single conventional hit. The brief clip also shows no immediate secondary wherever and whatever it hit.

Some facts about Russia's hypersonic missile. The Kinzahl is indeed very fast, but also very primitive by "hypersonic" technology standards. It is essentially a faster ballistic missile launched from an aircraft. Other than target adjustment, It has no real maneuvering or terrain following capability. A number of other battlefield ballistic missile threats are of generally the same class if not quite as fast. PAC 3 was created with multi-mach threats in mind. Somewhat higher speeds but with traditional ballistic tracks is more a software update challenge than a new technology requirement. I would not be surprised at all that Patriot PAC3 could engage such a target successfully.

 

[Ray B]

I have a few questions regarding hypersonic missiles. Say it is fired at a target 500 miles distant, what is the speed of the missile over the distance? That is, is it at full speed for the entire duration of its trip? Secondly, is its propellent actively burning for the duration or after some point is it coasting? Just wondering if these would be easier to shoot down as they were on final approach or at some point in mid-flight when their route was essentially a straight line.

 

[Red Leg]

Patriot Leaves Skeptics Wordless, Russians Embarassed, and Kiev Littered With Pieces of Putin's Wonder Weapons

redstate.com

Strieff has done really good reporting on the war in Ukraine to date. He does it on a solidly right wing site where he gets all sorts of grief in comments from the Trump acolytes. His assessment tracks very closely with the other informed sources I am reading.

 

[PARA45]

 

[PARA45]

 

[Tanner Lee]

I have a few questions regarding hypersonic missiles. Say it is fired at a target 500 miles distant, what is the speed of the missile over the distance? That is, is it at full speed for the entire duration of its trip? Secondly, is its propellent actively burning for the duration or after some point is it coasting? Just wondering if these would be easier to shoot down as they were on final approach or at some point in mid-flight when their route was essentially a straight line.

So I am not an expert but from what I understand for the vast majority of hypersonic missiles only go hyper in the last segment of its travel to the target. This is to save fuel so it’s at the start of its flight that it is most vulnerable.

It is the same with ICBMs that is why we have patriots in Japan, Korea and Europe. The closer you can be to the start of the missiles flight the better chance of interception. After that they are virtually uninterceptable.

There are probably some hypersonic missile that go hyper the whole time but from what I have heard and read they only go hyper in the last stage.

 

[mdwest]

they only go hyper in the last stage.

this is largely true...

there are a couple of factors at play as I understand them in my less than lay mind.. but as I have had it explained to me by a very senior ranking USAF flag officer that is very involved in propulsion development for hypersonic.. two critical issues are once the missile goes hypersonic you lose maneuverability control (its traveling so fast that to turn it even a matter of a few feet takes numerous miles to accomplish).. and limitations of the engines and their airframes themselves prevent the missiles from being capable of hypersonic for very long...

so you essentially flip the hypersonic switch at the very last possible moment, after you have the best possible target acquisition/flight path, and are within the range of the missiles hypersonic range capability...

All of that said.. people are very diligently working on solutions to these problems (how can we take something to hypersonic speed, then back it down to supersonic, then push it back hypersonic, etc as needed/required.... and how do we get something capable of moving hypersonic for longer distances, etc..etc..)..

 

[VertigoBE]

On a completely different side note. I've seen the term "flag officer" mentioned a few times before. Looked up on Wikipedia, but apart from some kind of naval designation of someone of high seniority "that is allowed to plant a flag from where to exercise command" I have no real understanding what the difference between an officer and a flag officer is. Would someone be able to explain in layman terms?

 

[kdenn]

Flag officer is O-7 rank and above. BG, MG, LG or General in Army or equivalent rank in the other services. Will often see banner(flag) flown on their vehicle

 

[mdwest]

@Red Leg is probably the best person to answer your question @VertigoBE .. But I'll make an attempt..

The term has somewhat become generalized over time, but in its origin had a very specific meaning (as I understand it, it originally only applied to Naval officers of the various admiral ranks under specific conditions)..

Today it gets applied to all officers (US military) of the rank O7 or higher (Brigadier General in the Army, USMC, and Air Force.. and Rear Admiral Lower Half in the Navy). O7's and higher are authorized to fly their flag, which displays their rank, from their headquarters and their vehicle.

So basically a "Flag Officer" is a General Officer in the US Military (I'd assume other militaries have a similar system and term).

Pattons Command Car as an example:

 

[wesheltonj]

Navy for admiral, Army for General. There might be some other differences that I am not familiar with.

 

[Ray B]

There are groupings of officer rank. I forget the order (after all it's been over 50 years ago) but there was Company Grade ( Lt, Capt) Field Grade (Maj-Col) & Flag Grad (Generals).