Jfet
AH legend
Thanks for your reply.@ActionBob has given you an accurate response to your question. The critics of supporting Ukraine point to billions of dollars being "given" to Ukraine where there is supposedly no accountability and where much of it flows back into the hands of - pick your favorite political enemy. I can't speak for every dollar, but I can assure you that the vast majority or weapons provided have been through Presidential draw-down authority. No "money" changes hands outside the internal US budgetary process.
As a former commanding general of US Army Security Assistance Command, I have a fairly good understanding how the process actually works. The executive branch goes to congress to request an aid package for X amount of dollars. Let's say the package contains the cost of 50 M777 howitzers, 6 HIMARS launchers, 100K 155mm howitzer rounds and 1200 GMLRS rockets. The howitzers and HIMARS are sitting in storage after being retired from the Marine Corps. A value is assigned to them based upon their sale value in a military assistance sale to an ally who might be purchasing them (it is a bit more complex but that is the gist of it). There will also be a training package cost associated with providing the howitzers. That total value is then deducted from the allocation.
The ammunition is also in storage. All rounds have shelf-life - rockets considerably less than standard artillery rounds. We will provide them the oldest stocks first. Again, a value will be assigned based on the remaining shelf life. In many cases, particularly older howitzer rounds, the provision of these rounds to Ukraine may actually save DOD money by not requiring de-mill of older munitions. Again, no one gives Ukraine a dollar to go buy those weapons or munitions.
If it is a unique product which is being provided to Ukraine directly by the contractor, then DOD will cut the contract using the allocation as the accountability line. The Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost loitering munitions have been acquired in this manner. Again, no one hands Ukraine a wad of cash to buy weapons.
There are other allocations provided for humanitarian relief, medical support, intell, etc. Many of those are managed by State or CIA. I can not speak to the accountability of those efforts other than to say both the department and Central Intelligence are under fairly strict congressional oversight.
Your question about whether the Ukrainian people deserve our help is, to me at least, not the right one. I really don't care what kind of government they have. I believe they are making a genuine effort to integrate their society and future with Western Europe. I believe that is laudatory. Others here claim they are no different than Russians and are not worthy of our support. I think both assumptions miss the point. In my mind, the issue is Russian Imperial designs on Central Europe and economic designs on Western Europe. Regardless of Ukraine's adherence to the principals and spirit of Jeffersonian democracy, Russian aggression must be stopped now in Ukraine before my grandchild is facing a far more powerful Russia over the next decades. And I absolutely believe the parallels to Hitler, Chamberlain, Germany, and Czechoslovakia in 1938 are blinding in their clarity.
The last question is the sort of conspiratorial nonsense one reads on sites like InfoWars and in the comments section on Breitbart. DOD's best public estimate is that Russia has lost 150,000 casualties (with over 50,000 KIA), two thirds of their modernized armor force, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, and a quarter of its most modern attack helicopters and ground attack aircraft. The damage to their economy will be generational. They have lost them because a nation a third their size has decided to sacrifice a generation of its own to preserve its independence and future. The conspiracy nuts seem to miss all that in their machinations.
Lastly, read these money pipeline cartoons and memes with a critical eye. Ukraine like the US has financial relationships with all sorts of international institutions. If they are American institutions they give political contributions to both parties. The same meme could be aimed at every other developed nation on the planet.
The Republican leadership largely gets the importance of stopping Russian ambitions. While the MTG's of the world scream for ending funding, the leadership is calling for an audit process of aid to Ukraine. If it gives more voters confidence, I think that is great idea. Most of it will simply be a review of department budgeting an allocation assumptions. I suspect such oversight would be most useful in tracking humanitarian allocations. In either case, it provides our party's leadership some political cover to continue to do the right thing.
But let me address the 800lb gorilla issue directly. I believe a big problem is Trump. Like most things with this self-indulgent politician, I believe his opposition to helping Ukraine has almost nothing to do with our national interests and everything to do with his personal animus toward Zelensky who in his view should have done more to expose Biden family involvement in Ukraine. Needless to say, no national leader with any sense is going to involve himself in another country's internal political affairs, particularly when he is faced with an existential threat for which he desperately hopes for US/NATO support regardless of which party is in control. All things considered, judging by the bipartisan support he has received, I think Zelensky was wise.
There are people I know and I value their opinions and ideas. These people include personal life time friends, AH people I have met, and social media people. In about 99% of the time we are in agreement. However, on this subject of aid to Ukraine to drive off Putin, I have found I have a very distinctly different opinion on the subject than some of these people. When that occurs I have learned as a average lifetime public school educator and D-line coach to throw my hand up and say ”Help, I don’t get where you are coming from.”
People have responded to my questions, I am greatly appreciative. People that I disagree with on this subject have made valid points. These are points that need to be considered. It keeps the pendulum from swinging to far.
I believe we are in the right by supporting Ukraine in providing military equipment to help them drive out Putin’s army. I believe as the Ukrainian army becomes more westernized and achieves success on the battlefield that the individual soldiers after the war will want to bring more of the western mind sets into Ukraine. This would and could include how to do business, how to govern properly, and how to think independently. In the end I would hope that the concept of “…that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.“ will take hold.
For all of ya’ll who responded thanks. For those who are typing away now thank you too.