Politics

[observe]

 

[observe]

 

[observe]

 

[steve white]

"Really, you are going to post something this stupid here? LOL.."

When browsing through the last couple of pages of this thread, I thought my posts where quite appropriate. Stupid memes trying to provoke/put down people with other opinions..

Do you condone all the slagging off of all other viewpoints that do not conform with your views? I agree that my posts where made to provoke, but is my viewpoint not valid because it does not align with yours?

And is africahunting.com a website/forum only for those that agree with you? Referring to you calling my post stupid.

that's what's infuriating...you ACTUALLY (don't think, but) THINK YOUR POSTS ARE QUITE APPROPRIATE.

 

[JOHN GRENZ]

 

[jpr9954]

 

[Wheels]

If a European war means this little to Europeans, why is America so heavily invested and involved.

 

[Wheels]

It doesn't make world media, but from an outsiders perspective, it looks like Dutch farmers are pissed.

 

[Newboomer]

It doesn't make world media, but from an outsiders perspective, it looks like Dutch farmers are pissed.

View attachment 474741

Now there is a good example of solidarity.

 

[Red Leg]

If a European war means this little to Europeans, why is America so heavily invested and involved.

View attachment 474740

I don't have the chart handy, but a comparison of donations relative to GDP is interesting as well from a context perspective - always a useful appendix. For example the US has a GDP nine times larger than the UK. Poland is about 600 billion compared to the US of 20 trillion. And of course there are those in kind costs for Eastern Europe with respect to refugees, etc. All of which ignores the fact that many, myself among them, strongly believe curbing Russian territorial resurgence in Europe is a critical US national interest.

 

[spike.t]

Just seen this...might be outdated by now...

 

[Wheels]

 

[Ray B]

When I was in High School one of the subjects involved was early 20th century Europe. Study included the effects of GB and France dominating the peace negotiations in 1918-19, the results of the treaty, the rise of Mussolini and Hitler. Also noted was that at the time of Chamberlain's famous Peace in Our Time speech the German army could have been controlled by intervention.
Seems to me that there are a lot of similarities between those events and what is presently happening in Europe. I'm wondering if any of this sort of thing is presently being taught in school, or is what I see on TV as the present course of study the replacement?

 

[spike.t]

Jeez....

 

[Red Leg]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543717758667730944

 

[Wheels]

I don't have the chart handy, but a comparison of donations relative to GDP is interesting as well from a context perspective - always a useful appendix. For example the US has a GDP nine times larger than the UK. Poland is about 600 billion compared to the US of 20 trillion. And of course there are those in kind costs for Eastern Europe with respect to refugees, etc. All of which ignores the fact that many, myself among them, strongly believe curbing Russian territorial resurgence in Europe is a critical US national interest.

If we compare the EU to America, then America has a larger economy than the EU. If we add in the UK, Switzerland, Norway, former Yugoslavia Republics, then Europe has a larger economy than America. Especially when comparing purchasing power instead of judging Europe off the USD which the World Bank does if memory serves me correct.

If Europe cared about the war then they should at least be providing a similar amount of funds to the war as America instead of significantly less.

Yes there are countries that are giving in kind contributions but don't forget that America has given a minimum of $53B and perhaps more than $60B to Ukraine at this point which is some $30B more than the above chart shows for military aid.

America is throwing money around and mortgaging the future of it's children and grandchildren. If Europe cares they should be shouldering at least an equivalent amount as America.

 

[Sabattiboy]

When I was in High School one of the subjects involved was early 20th century Europe. Study included the effects of GB and France dominating the peace negotiations in 1918-19, the results of the treaty, the rise of Mussolini and Hitler. Also noted was that at the time of Chamberlain's famous Peace in Our Time speech the German army could have been controlled by intervention.
Seems to me that there are a lot of similarities between those events and what is presently happening in Europe. I'm wondering if any of this sort of thing is presently being taught in school, or is what I see on TV as the present course of study the replacement?

They haven't taught actual history in decades.
Whatever happened in the past will never happen again so everything has to be retried because they think it will work this time. The insanity thing accreted to Einstein of doing the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome.
Even comparative analysis of 2020 - 2022 against the past would teach something.
Maybe it is a waste of time to teach geography. After all, with Putin around it can changed next week or month or year etc.

 

[Red Leg]

If we compare the EU to America, then America has a larger economy than the EU. If we add in the UK, Switzerland, Norway, former Yugoslavia Republics, then Europe has a larger economy than America. Especially when comparing purchasing power instead of judging Europe off the USD which the World Bank does if memory serves me correct.

If Europe cared about the war then they should at least be providing a similar amount of funds to the war as America instead of significantly less.

Yes there are countries that are giving in kind contributions but don't forget that America has given a minimum of $53B and perhaps more than $60B to Ukraine at this point which is some $30B more than the above chart shows for military aid.

America is throwing money around and mortgaging the future of it's children and grandchildren. If Europe cares they should be shouldering at least an equivalent amount as America.

You and I will continue to disagree on this. At least we have informed debate.

I am convinced these are pennies on the dollar compared to dealing with the challenge posed by an empowered and revitalized totalitarian Russia added to the growing clear and present threat posed by China. As 1938 demonstrated in a remarkable historical parallel, I am absolutely certain that not dealing with it now would indeed be mortgaging the future of our children.

I do wish the crisis was in the hands of someone other than Jake Sullivan.

 

[Wheels]

You and I will continue to disagree on this. At least we have informed debate.

I am convinced these are pennies on the dollar compared to dealing with the challenge posed by an empowered and revitalized totalitarian Russia added to the growing clear and present threat posed by China. As 1938 demonstrated in a remarkable historical parallel, I am absolutely certain that not dealing with it now would indeed be mortgaging the future of our children.

I do wish the crisis was in the hands of someone other than Jake Sullivan.

We agree on much more than we disagree about.

I have been a hawk all my life. This started to change with a 20 year war in Afghanistan that should have been completed with the destruction of Al Qaeda, the death of Bin Laden and as much ruin to the Taliban as possible, events that should have been accomplished in a couple years. My hawkish views changed more with Iraq. Julian Assuage is probably correct when he said the war in Afghanistan was not designed to win but to removed money from the tax payers of America and Europe and launder the money to the powerful of the world.

Russian nukes do concern me. China is a significant concern. One we will probably have issues with in our children's lifetimes if not our lifetimes.

My frustration is that NATO has not been funded by the very countries it was formed to protect. (Four years ago, Germany laughed in America's face that it was preposterous to worry about Russia) Europe needs to lead out in Ukraine. Not America. Europe needs to be the primary funder of Ukraine. Not America. America has been nothing more than mercenaries for Europe the past 85 years. America is funding these wars on the backs of their Children.

In the graph I posted, America has given $25B of military aid and Europe has given less than $10B, even though their economy is larger and the war is in their back yard. I don't mind helping but Europe needs to take this upon their self, not put the responsibility on America.

Europe and America can't even get other countries to buy into sanctions anymore. The sanctions on Russia are a massive joke. America and Europe just drove Russia into China's hands and helped form a loose confederation of BRICS into what could be a significant powerhouse in time. The leadership of Europe and America are both jokes on the world stage, leading their countries down a ruinous path.

 

[Red Leg]

We agree on much more than we disagree about.

I have been a hawk all my life. This started to change with a 20 year war in Afghanistan that should have been completed with the destruction of Al Qaeda, the death of Bin Laden and as much ruin to the Taliban as possible, events that should have been accomplished in a couple years. My hawkish views changed more with Iraq. Julian Assuage is probably correct when he said the war in Afghanistan was not designed to win but to removed money from the tax payers of America and Europe and launder the money to the powerful of the world.

Russian nukes do concern me. China is a significant concern. One we will probably have issues with in our children's lifetimes if not our lifetimes.

My frustration is that NATO has not been funded by the very countries it was formed to protect. (Four years ago, Germany laughed in America's face that it was preposterous to worry about Russia) Europe needs to lead out in Ukraine. Not America. Europe needs to be the primary funder of Ukraine. Not America. America has been nothing more than mercenaries for Europe the past 85 years. America is funding these wars on the backs of their Children.

In the graph I posted, America has given $25B of military aid and Europe has given less than $10B, even though their economy is larger and the war is in their back yard. I don't mind helping but Europe needs to take this upon their self, not put the responsibility on America.

Europe and America can't even get other countries to buy into sanctions anymore. The sanctions on Russia are a massive joke. America and Europe just drove Russia into China's hands and helped form a loose confederation of BRICS into what could be a significant powerhouse in time. The leadership of Europe and America are both jokes on the world stage, leading their countries down a ruinous path.

Let's set aside the last twenty years in the Middle East. I think we are in very nearly complete agreement.

Our differences, I think, are in our perceptions of this conflict. This war, investment, whatever we want to term it is only secondarily about helping Europe and one hundred percent about our own national interests - the exact same calculous that created the Marshal Plan and then NATO itself. Do the Europeans use that to their advantage? Certainly since 1990 or so - particularly Germany. None of which changes our own national interests at all.