Politics

[CoElkHunter]

Y

Yes, I mixed up their nationalities but my point about isolationists remains the same. Isolationists always claim they are not isolationists and are just looking out for the USA. Common theme throughout history.

Isolationism hasn't worked real well for us here in the US. Before WW1, we were a neutral isolationist country. After WW1 started, we maintained that status quo. We supplied both Britain and France AND Germany, trying to maintain our neutrality. But the powers that be, just wouldn't leave us alone. Germany started to sink our supply ships to Britain and France with their U Boats. We told them to stop doing that, but it continued albeit at a slower pace. Germany then sunk the UK registered ocean liner RMS Lusitania, killing almost 2K civilians including 123 Americans. That prompted our entry into WW1. After that "War to End All Wars", we again became an isolationist country. We again saw how well that worked out for us with WW2. Without a little bit of luck, like our carriers not having been docked at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked, or Hitler unable/unwilling to invade Great Britain through Operation Sea Lion because he was insane enough to invade Russia and preoccupied with that disaster, we could have very easily LOST WW2. The FREE World has existential threats looming on the horizon, and like it or not, as the Leader of the Free World, we must be cautious but engaging with diplomacy and militarily as a last resort, but lest history AGAIN repeats itself, we can't be a neutral or isolationist nation ever again. I firmly believe in America First, but part of that means ensuring free nations thrive, so the exchange of commerce and ideas flow freely and unfettered by the despots of the World. Rant over.

 

[wesheltonj]

Isolationism hasn't worked real well for us here in the US. Before WW1, we were a neutral isolationist country. After WW1 started, we maintained that status quo. We supplied both Britain and France AND Germany, trying to maintain our neutrality. But the powers that be, just wouldn't leave us alone. Germany started to sink our supply ships to Britain and France with their U Boats. We told them to stop doing that, but it continued albeit at a slower pace. Germany then sunk the UK registered ocean liner RMS Lusitania, killing almost 2K civilians including 123 Americans. That prompted our entry into WW1. After that "War to End All Wars", we again became an isolationist country. We again saw how well that worked out for us with WW2. Without a little bit of luck, like our carriers not having been docked at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese attacked, or Hitler unable/unwilling to invade Great Britain through Operation Sea Lion because he was insane enough to invade Russia and preoccupied with that disaster, we could have very easily LOST WW2. The FREE World has existential threats looming on the horizon, and like it or not, as the Leader of the Free World, we must be cautious but engaging with diplomacy and militarily as a last resort, but lest history AGAIN repeats itself, we can't be a neutral or isolationist nation ever again. I firmly believe in America First, but part of that means ensuring free nations thrive, so the exchange of commerce and ideas flow freely and unfettered by the despots of the World. Rant over.

Well our good friends in the UK were placing arms on passenger ships. The Germans ran newspaper ads saying for American not Sail on that ship. And the Germans attacked it as promised, and the rest is history, we are in the war.

And their is a theory, that Roosevelt had intelligence of the Japanese attack, but sat on it, in order to get the USA into WW2. I suspect if Hilter did not enter into a two front war, things would have turned out differently.

The current war, Biden flat out told Putin (via press conference) if you just take a little we will not do anything.

 

[sgt_zim]

Actually, our involvement in WW2 and the massive amounts of Government money infused into the economy for the war effort, is what finally ended the Great Depression. Before the war, FDR tried many things, such as his New Deal program, but with limited success and chronic unemployment and the Depression continued. WW2 brought FULL employment in the US from 14.9% unemployment in 1940 (from a high of 25%) to the standing record of 1.2% by 1944. FYI.

The Great Depression didn't end until 1948. It is one of the great myths of the Keynesians that the war ended it.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Well our good friends in the UK were placing arms on passenger ships. The Germans ran newspaper ads saying for American not Sail on that ship. And the Germans attacked it as promised, and the rest is history, we are in the war.

And their is a theory, that Roosevelt had intelligence of the Japanese attack, but sat on it, in order to get the USA into WW2. I suspect if Hilter did not enter into a two front war, things would have turned out differently.

The current war, Biden flat out told Putin (via press conference) if you just take a little we will not do anything.

I really have no argument with any of that. The Germans chose the sinking of the Lusitania killing 123 American passengers among the 2K killed over ONE POSSIBLE shipment of arms and they ultimately paid the price upon our entry into WW1. Poor decisions can have EXTREME consequences? It's a VERY plausible theory FDR "allowed" the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor knowing that would push the US into WW2. In my opinion, if Japan hadn't attacked us, Australia would have been invaded by the Japanese along with every other continent/island in the Pacific Theatre. Having not then declared war on us, Germany could PROBABLY have invaded Great Britain as time would have been on their side? Game over at that point! Putin already had "taken a little" (Georgia, Crimea, Donbass, etc.) and Brandon, aka Neville Chamberlain the 2nd, believed in his feeble mind that Putin would stop after a "little". Maybe Xi will take a "little" with Taiwan and not claim the entire South China Sea under China's control? Some 80% of the World's commerce is shipped through there. Maybe Iran will only take a "little more" influence than Iraq, Yemen and Syria with their ultimate goal of destroying Israel and controlling the Middle East? I don't know the answers? History will surely have those answers for us in time.
OOps! I forgot about the Hermit Kingdom. Who knows what 'ol Kim has designs on? Or worse his treacherous sister.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The Great Depression didn't end until 1948. It is one of the great myths of the Keynesians that the war ended it.

Hmm. I didn't know that?

 

[Rick Cox]

I think that is impossible. News is made by people. People, no matter how hard they try are never 100% objective. Best one can do is listen to all sides of an argument and not allow preconceived convictions, or being tone deaf to an opponents view, cloud your own judgement.










































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































y SpiI know about the gallipoli campaign amongst other things...so 







































































































outleSomeout



Not sure what I am supposed to be understanding here?...I know about the gallipoli campaign amongst other things...so 

I think that is impossible. News is made by people. People, no matter how hard they try are never 100% objective. Best one can do is listen to all sides of an argument and not allow preconceived convictions, or being tone deaf to an opponents view, cloud your own judgement.

Thanks for the redundant advice, but it should be obvious that is exactly what I am doing or at least trying to do. But OK: what sources of information do you use?

 

[Rick Cox]

Not sure what I am supposed to be understanding here?...I know about the gallipoli campaign amongst other things...so

Sorry @spike.t , that suggestion was aimed @CoElkHunter . Didn't mean to include you...

 

[CoElkHunter]

Sorry @spike.t , that suggestion was aimed @CoElkHunter . Didn't mean to include you...

? I just "liked" you, when you said I might enjoy the movie (Gallipoli Campaign)? I didn't know there was a movie (probably documentary?) on this?

 

[Rick Cox]

Musk for the win...

View attachment 463640




Liberal heads are exploding all over the planet today...

Im patiently waiting for him to make a move on Netflix next lol... or maybe Disney..


My favorite part of all of it is... Liberals are pissed.. because Twitter is now owned by an African-American...

Seriously? How many cc's of African blood does it take to be termed "African American"?? And is that still a thing?

 

[BourbonTrail]

I am a staunch isolationist…because I am an introvert. I would like nothing more that to live in complete isolation. However, the world is run by extroverts. As such, America cannot, by default, behave as an introvert. However, we need our leaders to learn about, and utilize, diplomacy. That is unlikely to happen because we are run by morons.

 

[Randy F]

 

[Rick Cox]

? I just "liked" you, when you said I might enjoy the movie (Gallipoli Campaign)? I didn't know there was a movie (probably documentary?) on this?

Good show. Violent and heart wrenching. One of Mel Gibsons early movies. Not a documentary but evidently an accurate depiction more or less of the campaign...

 

[jpr9954]

 

[cpr0312]

 

[Randy F]

View attachment 463682

Archie was spot on with he whole “Meathead” thing.

 

[sgt_zim]

Hmm. I didn't know that?

Most people don't. They believe what they were taught in US History in high school.

I'll see if I can find the video, either Thomas Sowell or Milton Friedman explaining it.

Around June of 1930, 8 or 9 months after the bank crash, unemployment was back down (from around 9% on the heels of the crash) to a little over 6%. Then Hoover and Congress passed Smoot Hawley, and unemployment shot up to over 10% in about 5 or 6 months. Unemployment never got below 10% from that day until the war, when about 12 million men exited the workforce into the military.

While unemployment was low in 1946 after the war, around 3% I think, inflation was at 18%. Inflation began to abate in 1947, but it was still almost 9%. It didn't settle down to about 3% until 1948.

 

[Big5]

 

[observe]

 

[Dragan N.]

If the west capitulated on Ukraine don't you think China would be emboldened on Taiwan? There's more to this than Ukraine. I think it is naive to think this is an isolated situation. This is a good message to send. Otherwise you would have a war you don't want but this time you would be bringing home your own dead. There is zero examples in history where capitulation obtained peace. Never bet against a streak.

I doubt Western action or inaction over Ukraine would have much of an impact on China. Let us say China chooses to invade Taiwan at some point in the next 10-20 years. What could the West do to realistically stop it ? You can introduce sanctions on Russia because Russia is a 1.5 trillion economy. Compare that to America which is 22 trillion economy. Now China is a 18 trillion economy, and it is poised to overtake the US in terms of GDP at some point in the next decade. In terms of P.P.P. China has already surpassed the US. This article lays out China's vs. America's economic position quite well https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/great-economic-rivalry-china-vs-us Furthermore just walk into your neighborhood Walmart and look at how many things are made in China. If the West tried to introduce sanctions on China, over its hypothetical invasion of Taiwan, the West would also be greatly hurt by these sanctions as well. Sanctions work if you are the more, economically, powerful side. They don't work so well if the two sides are equal. Plus sanctions against China, unlike against Russia, would lead to severe shortages in the US, Canada etc... as China occupies a central role in global manufacturing and supply chains. This would have severe consequences on domestic opinion. Being a "human rights defender" and "global social justice warrior" is great and all until it effects your bottom line and prevents you from getting basic necessities at your local Walmart.

With its growing economy China is also starting to amp up its military spending and its nuclear arsenal. So with its growing economy China's military is growing as well.

China's rise has been directly fueled by Western corporate greed. Corporations went into China thinking they would get a cheap source of labour and that they would be able to control China to their liking. This directly led to a increasingly tightening noose around the West's neck. And i do not see one Western nation or leader who is seriously trying to do anything to reverse or combat this trend. And arguably it is already to late.

 

[Pheroze]

I doubt Western action or inaction over Ukraine would have much of an impact on China. Let us say China chooses to invade Taiwan at some point in the next 10-20 years. What could the West do to realistically stop it ? You can introduce sanctions on Russia because Russia is a 1.5 trillion economy. Compare that to America which is 22 trillion economy. Now China is a 18 trillion economy, and it is poised to overtake the US in terms of GDP at some point in the next decade. In terms of P.P.P. China has already surpassed the US. This article lays out China's vs. America's economic position quite well https://www.belfercenter.org/publication/great-economic-rivalry-china-vs-us Furthermore just walk into your neighborhood Walmart and look at how many things are made in China. If the West tried to introduce sanctions on China, over its hypothetical invasion of Taiwan, the West would also be greatly hurt by these sanctions as well. Sanctions work if you are the more, economically, powerful side. They don't work so well if the two sides are equal. Plus sanctions against China, unlike against Russia, would lead to severe shortages in the US, Canada etc... as China occupies a central role in global manufacturing and supply chains. This would have severe consequences on domestic opinion. Being a "human rights defender" and "global social justice warrior" is great and all until it effects your bottom line and prevents you from getting basic necessities at your local Walmart.

With its growing economy China is also starting to amp up its military spending and its nuclear arsenal. So with its growing economy China's military is growing as well.

China's rise has been directly fueled by Western corporate greed. Corporations went into China thinking they would get a cheap source of labour and that they would be able to control China to their liking. This directly led to a increasingly tightening noose around the West's neck. And i do not see one Western nation or leader who is seriously trying to do anything to reverse or combat this trend. And arguably it is already to late.

China is trying to ride two horses in their position on Ukraine. They vocalizing support for Russia while cutting back on financial dealings with Russia. I think that is partly because China relies on world markets and is sensitive to the relationships. If it thinks it's own aggressions will cause significant damage to that then I belive it will be restrained. China's ruling elite is more rational than Putin in that sense.