Politics

[Jfet]

Is it possible to get a brief abstract on the two candidates and their political parties in France? Or is this like a control feed vs push feed discussion?

 

[Ray B]

To those familiar with France' political system:
Is the election system a primary to reduce the number of candidates, then a general election to pick the winner? Or a different arrangement?
the election that is today is what stage of the election process?

 

[VertigoBE]

To those familiar with France' political system:
Is the election system a primary to reduce the number of candidates, then a general election to pick the winner? Or a different arrangement?
the election that is today is what stage of the election process?

As far as I understand it:
It is a two step process. In the first round all the different candidates, one from each party, try to get as much votes as possible, to be among the two candidates with the most votes. Because only those two go on to the second round, where the final winner is elected.

This system allows for many different parties, just like in some other EU countries, but with the advantage that in the end one party/candidate wins all. So not a rule by coalition in the end.

I believe the French system is the primary basis of the US system of doing things.

 

[VertigoBE]

Interesting.

So you don't think Le Pen will be close in the second round then. It's hard to get a good feel for European politics in America. At least for me. Thanks for the feedback.

I don’t think so:

Macron (centre right) got 28%
Le Pen (hard right) got 23%
Mélenchon (extreme left) got 22%
Zemmour (extreme right) got 7%
Pécresse (centre right) got 5%

Zemmour’s voters will vote Le Pen
Pecresse’s voters will vote Macron

And Melenchon already asked his followers, not to vote for Le Pen and endorsed Macron.

That should put Macron comfortably over the bump. But on the condition that the lefty voters are still motivated to go out and cast a vote.

 

[jpr9954]

 

[Wheels]

I don’t think so:

Macron (centre right) got 28%
Le Pen (hard right) got 23%
Mélenchon (extreme left) got 22%
Zemmour (extreme right) got 7%
Pécresse (centre right) got 5%

Zemmour’s voters will vote Le Pen
Pecresse’s voters will vote Macron

And Melenchon already asked his followers, not to vote for Le Pen and endorsed Macron.

That should put Macron comfortably over the bump. But on the condition that the lefty voters are still motivated to go out and cast a vote.

That certainly makes sense.

It's hard to think of the current government as centre right.

 

[Woodcarver]

 

[Woodcarver]

 

[SaintPanzer]

I believe the French system is the primary basis of the US system of doing things.

So, in 1787 when France was a monarchy, a bunch of guys developed a system based on a French future system they hadn't seen yet?

 

[VertigoBE]

So, in 1787 when France was a monarchy, a bunch of guys developed a system based on a French future system they hadn't seen yet?

I actually mentioned that purely from memory, and it seems I was not fully correct. It was not based on the French system of that time. Because the French did not yet have their Republic yet. Thanks for correcting me in this.

It was rather based on the writings and proposals of Montesquieu from 1748. A French philosopher. He had created a whole “ideal political system” based on the checks and balances and divisions of power.

My apologies for the confusion.

 

[mark-hunter]

So, in 1787 when France was a monarchy, a bunch of guys developed a system based on a French future system they hadn't seen yet?

American revolution, as a political and ideological movement: 1765 - 1791. (american revolution war 1775 - 1783, but you have to understand that such a war you dont start without development of some political and ideological base, that has to be prepared in advance)
French revolution: 1789 - 1799.

French and american Revolutions were actually typical and simoultaneous as a result of developping new ideas on both continents. The ideas were exchanged by great thinkers across thr Atlantic of that time, and most famous theorists are - to be honest - French enciclopedists, who wrote the first enciclopedia in history (1751 - 1765). Enciclpedia Britanica came few years later. But enciclopedia is not the only thing they did.

So, when new ideas were accepted, discussed, refined, excahnged, this created ideological basis for two revolutions.

 

[Jfet]

American revolution, as a political and ideological movement: 1765 - 1791. (american revolution war 1775 - 1783, but you have to understand that such a war you dont start without development of some political and ideological base, that has to be prepared in advance)
French revolution: 1789 - 1799.

French and american Revolutions were actually typical and simoultaneous as a result of developping new ideas on both continents. The ideas were exchanged by great thinkers across thr Atlantic of that time, and most famous theorists are - to be honest - French enciclopedists, who wrote the first enciclopedia in history (1751 - 1765). Enciclpedia Britanica came few years later. But enciclopedia is not the only thing they did.

So, when new ideas were accepted, discussed, refined, excahnged, this created ideological basis for two revolutions.

It is good to remember that the American Experiment in Government is still relatively new. Putin and his type of government has been around thousands of years.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

It is good to remember that the American Experiment in Government is still relatively new. Putin and his type of government has been around thousands of years.

Exactly! Lords and serfs from which the lord's take most of their meager income.

 

[Sabattiboy]

It is good to remember that the American Experiment in Government is still relatively new. Putin and his type of government has been around thousands of years.

Yes, and evil thinking, greed, monopolizing etc has been around since the beginning.
@Jfet used what actually sounds like a good analogy in the argument of push feed vs controlled feed; they both work and they both can get you killed.
It is very likely division and uncertainty is currently being felt in every country.
For over a decade there are some that think the US constitution is outdated. Clean the slate across the board and start on January 1st 2023 with no constitution or laws federal, state or local. Let the purge stage of America begin.
One POTUS whips out the exec pen and by executive order creates policy that is handled as if it is law. The next POTUS whips out the exec pen and proceeds to write executive orders to undo the previous POTUS executive orders. Immagration laws being subverted by executive order?
How can anything but division and uncertainty come out of this kind of leadership?
Under the Medes and Persians, a king's order could not be overruled or undone. That might help in our day and time.

 

[Jfet]

It is very likely division and uncertainty is currently being felt in every country.
For over a decade there are some that think the US constitution is outdated.

Division in the U. S. has been much worse than it is today. In the early 1860’s divisiveness between the population of the U. S. reached critical mass. I am not sure we are any where near that point now.

 

[sgt_zim]

Division in the U. S. has been much worse than it is today. In the early 1860’s divisiveness between the population of the U. S. reached critical mass. I am not sure we are any where near that point now.

Not sure that's the case. While there was a deep divide between slavers and abolitionists, most people were neither.

There was never great disagreement in those days about what Aristotle called "Eudaimonia," and that's precisely the fault line which separates us today. I do not believe there is a bridge across this chasm.

 

[spike.t]

TikTok - Make Your Day

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

To those familiar with France' political system:
Is the election system a primary to reduce the number of candidates, then a general election to pick the winner? Or a different arrangement?
the election that is today is what stage of the election process?

Under Article 7 of the Constitution of France, the President of the Republic is elected to a five-year term in a two-round election. If no candidate secures an absolute majority of votes in the first round, a second round is held two weeks later between the two candidates who received the most votes.

France’s elections are divided into two rounds: The first round selects the two frontrunners, and the second selects the winner, who has a five-year mandate to govern. “There’s a lot of candidates in the first round,” explained Susi Dennison, the director of the European power program at the European Council on Foreign Relations. “The idea of the system is that you vote with conviction in the first round, and then you vote strategically in the second round.” What that means is French voters typically cast their ballot for the candidate they really want in the first round, and against the candidate whom they don’t want in the second.

 

[Sabattiboy]

Division in the U. S. has been much worse than it is today. In the early 1860’s divisiveness between the population of the U. S. reached critical mass. I am not sure we are any where near that point now.

Interesting.
People think we are near the biblical revelation end because of things going on today. The bible puts that history in one book so it is easier to see. But the same thing is true over 5000 years. Many times people thought the end had to be coming but it didn't.

 

[Ray B]

There are two aspects of the Civil War that are viewed today through revisionist eyes.
1. That slaves were mistreated by their owners
2. That slavery was the CAUSE of the Civil War.

Both ideas are incorrect. the source of the first was a mentally ill daughter of a New England preacher- whom even Lincoln considered her as the catalyst of the war. The reality was that mistreatment of slaves was a very rare occurrence and was generally the result of intraslave violence. Slaves were investments and were cared for in much better fashion that the present welfare system.

The cause of the Civil War was a result of the changes caused by the industrial revolution and the changes in wealth distribution. From the origins of the states through early 1800s the South was rich based on its agricultural economy. The North was relatively poor, serving primarily as port facilities. The federal government was funded primarily by the South. With the industrial revolution, the north transitioned to an industrial economy and surpassed the South in wealth accumulation. With that wealth the North had much more influence in federal policy. Those policies were adversarial to life in the South.

The South recalled that only seven decades earlier the states had agreed to invent the federal government and that the Constitution specifically stated the dominance of the states in those aspects not specifically enumerated to the federal government- the South decided to withdraw from the federal arrangement.

The war was fought to preserve the Union- not to abolish slavery.

Time travel to present day- the issues such as all of the bone-headed things that the DemonRats are pushing through the federal government are causing an alignment not unlike the Antebellum era. If the trend continues it is not unreasonable for the "fly-over" states to conclude that the federal arrangement is a losing deal and that the states would be better off without the federal government.

When that happens the fly-over states will lose allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. I suspect that the leaders of those states will be students of history and know that armed confrontation with the federal government is a losers choice so they will choose the path of Gandhi and Martin King Jr. a repeat of the shutdown due to the China Virus is possible with an exception. When the Feds do it, it's called a STRIKE. When the states band together and stop things, it's a LOCK-OUT.