Politics

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As one would expect with the current administration, the situation in Afghanistan is head and shoulders above other government screw ups. If you combine the fall of Saigon in 75, the Iranian Crisis of 79, throw in some Mogadishu in 93 and a sprinkling of Benghazi in 12 you still don't get a cluster as epic as Afghanistan 2021.

Regardless of how you feel about America's role in Afghanistan during the past 20 years, the fact of the matter is this, there evidently wasn't a plan for the possible rapid collapse of the ANA. What genius thought that having the airport in Kabul as the only way out of Afghanistan was a good idea? At the very least holding Bagram Air Base as long as necessary would have gone a long way in providing an outlet for an orderly withdrawal. Now we have a situation where the enemy controls access to the only way out of the country and there are thousands of individuals cut off from the airport. So we are left to trust in the charity of the Taliban for the lives of all these people. Hopefully this ends without a massacre, but that certainly is one of the possibilities.

Entire thing makes me sick.
 
As one would expect with the current administration, the situation in Afghanistan is head and shoulders above other government screw ups. If you combine the fall of Saigon in 75, the Iranian Crisis of 79, throw in some Mogadishu in 93 and a sprinkling of Benghazi in 12 you still don't get a cluster as epic as Afghanistan 2021.

Regardless of how you feel about America's role in Afghanistan during the past 20 years, the fact of the matter is this, there evidently wasn't a plan for the possible rapid collapse of the ANA. What genius thought that having the airport in Kabul as the only way out of Afghanistan was a good idea? At the very least holding Bagram Air Base as long as necessary would have gone a long way in providing an outlet for an orderly withdrawal. Now we have a situation where the enemy controls access to the only way out of the country and there are thousands of individuals cut off from the airport. So we are left to trust in the charity of the Taliban for the lives of all these people. Hopefully this ends without a massacre, but that certainly is one of the possibilities.

Entire thing makes me sick.

Yep, same here. Just listen to Mr Big of the jefe tank, Milley, telling us how woke he and they are. I have no words...
 
Evidently there was a screaming match between 82nd Airborne officer and an officer in the British Paras over the British leaving the airport, traveling into the city to get their people. So the British are risking their lives to get their people out while the 82nd, no doubt under orders from DC, hunkers down at the airport. Just when you think the perception of a weak America couldn't get worse.............it does. :mad:
 
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@Vashper

Just now I have caught your comment.
As far as I remember, the current Constitution of Yugoslavia did not clearly and unambiguously provide for the free exit of the republics from the federation.

(
I make copy-paste because my quote function doesnt work on my computer)

This refers to yugo constitution as of 1974.
Lets go now to historical development of this article, since end of ww2.

Constitution in 1946:
FNRJ je savezna narodna država republika, zajednica ravnopravnih naroda koji su na osnovi prava na samoopredjeljenje uključujući pravo na otcjepljenje na temelju zajedničke borbe i slobodno izražene volje

Translation:
The FNRJ (fFderal peoples republic of Yugoslavia) is a federal people's state republic, a community of equal peoples based on the right to self-determination, including the right to secede on the basis of common struggle and free will.

Constitution 1963, from its basic principles:
Narodi Jugoslavije polazeći od prava svakog naroda na samoopredjeljenje uključujući pravo na otcjepljenje na temelju zajedničke borbe i slobodno izražene volje

Translation:
The peoples of Yugoslavia starting from the right of every people to self-determination, including the right to secede on the basis of common struggle and free will


Constituiton 1974, basic principles in full:
Narodi Jugoslavije, polazeći od prava svakog naroda na samoopredeljenje, uključujući i pravo na otcepljenje, na osnovu svoje slobodno izražene volje u zajedničkoj borbi svih naroda i narodnosti u narodnooslobodilačkom ratu i socijalističkoj revoluciji, a u skladu sa svojim istorijskim težnjama, svesni da je dalje učvršćivanje njihovog bratstva i jedinstva u zajedničkom interesu, zajedno sa narodnostima sa kojima žive, ujedinili su se u saveznu republiku slobodnih i ravnopravnih naroda i narodnosti i stvorili socijalističku federativnu zajednicu radnih ljudi —

Translation:
The peoples of Yugoslavia, starting from the right of every people to self-determination, including the right to secede, on the basis of their freely expressed will in the common struggle of all peoples and nationalities in the national liberation war and socialist revolution, and aware of their historical aspirations fraternities and unity in the common interest, together with the nationalities with which they live, united in a federal republic of free and equal peoples and nationalities and created a socialist federal community of working people -




------
Now, obviously there is no clear administrative procedure stating: in order to go out of federation, a respective republic will need to fill up form b, complete procedure this and that, apply for official hearing, register and file in that office, for final bill will be XX months deadline for appeal, etc... etc... So in first two countries (slovenia and croatia) it went by system of referendum.

It would be interesting to compare how Czechoslovakia for example separated to Czech republic and Slovakia, and what was the legal and constituional backgounds for this separation.
Unfortuantely in ex Yu the war happened.

Yes, that's it. The Constitution provided for the self-determination of nations and peoples, but not of republics. This was the root of the conflicts-the islands of nations that found themselves "in foreign" republics after the collapse of Yugoslavia naturally wanted self-determination. Some succeeded (Kosovars), some did not (Serbs in the Serbian Krajina or Hungarians of Vojvodina). In the USSR, it was easier - the republics had the right to secede, and not the nationalities. Although, in my opinion, the West contributed to the collapse of Yugoslavia simply because it confused it with Russia.
 
@Vashper
There is also one more specific political situation -nationalities of Bosnia.
Islam, or muslims are religion -not nationality, everywhere except Bosnia.

But during Tito rule, they have been given status of nationality.
So now, there are three nationalities in Bosnia. Croats, Serbs, Muslims
In history, when Turkish empire came to Bosnia, they were not forcing islam, but they gave some benefits to Muslims, like tax exemptions and similar, so some of local populations (Croats and Serbs) took Islam as their religion in the past.
However, also needs to be noted, Croats are roman catholic, Serbs are ortodox, so we have the case of three religions in this country, forming three constitutional nationalities.

Whatever is constitutional case, some republics separated from ex YU without war - for example Macedonia and Monte Negro. So, separation is possible even without war, but the difference was that the borders in Croatia were disputed, by separation attempt from Serbian minority in eastern parts, which actually caused the war. In Bosnia, ethnic borders (even now) is impossible to determine, and this then caused the war which ended in ethnic cleansing in some places and other atrocities.

Vojvodina (still part of Serbia) and Kosovo (not part of Serbia, but not globally recognized as state, were not republics. They were autonomous provinces (oblast) of Serbia, thus having different status from other republics.
I am not sure in Global terms and number of recognizing states, but in EU only, following states do not recognize Kosovo: Spain, Slovakia, Cyprus, Romania, and Greece. From global large countries, for example India, Russia and China do not recognize Kosovo. Kosovo today, in many ways reminds me of Afhganistan today, landlocked country, corruption, recognized or non recognized government, women rights, supported by USA force and politics, ... etc... who ever wants can research deeper.
 
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Our demented and perverted POTUSA, sippy cup Joe, has made a debacle of this deal, and him lying on TV about it during his presser is gonna come back to burn his azzzz. CNN is already turning on him....that's right....CNN.
 
The big shots running the Demo party must have a real quandary. They had hoped that ole Joe could have held out for at least a year to give some semblance of value to his presidency and that Ms Horrible would make a better impression than she has so that she could at least appear to be competent. But now the whole deal is crashing in flames. My suspicion is that they are now seeking to find the candidate that could actually win an election for president- when found, ole Joe will be given the boot, Horrible will become president and she will select as vice president the person that the big shots would nominate to run for president in 2024. That is, provided the US still has elections in 2024.
 
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