Politics

[Corey0372]

As someone in the US on an L1B (basically the same as H1B but for intracompany transfers) I can assure you, there are many controls in place to promote the hiring of Americans for those positions and more often than not, the H1B is only approved when the company can prove without reasonable doubt that no suitable applicant exists in country for the position.

The job must be listed publicly (mine was for 18 months with over 30 local applicants interviewed before my visa was approved), the company must prove that the visa applicant is a. qualified for the role and b. more qualified than the local applicants, and prevailing wages must be confirmed with immigration services and shown to be at or above local market rates. It's not a chance to get people in from abroad on the cheap.

These visas are in place to attract foreign talent, not to undercut the locals. There is a difference.

Besides, if you want to screw over the locals, you don't bring a foreign candidate into a technical position in the US, it's much cheaper to simply offshore the position all together. Especially in tech where all that is needed in many cases is a laptop and an internet connection to do the job...

A friend who was working at a pretty high position at google (he quit working there) was telling me the majority of the people working there are from India and China, he also said he was almost certain that a high number of the Chinese employees were actively working for the Chinese govt.

 

[Alistair]

A friend who was working at a pretty high position at google (he quit working there) was telling me the majority of the people working there are from India and China.

There are quite a few foreign nationals at a lot of the big tech firms. They're big companies, and the demand for skilled coders is higher than US institutions alone can meet right now.

Some will have moved from foreign business units, Europe say, or Asia, some will have been hired from technical colleges or companies in other countries. India is especially common for that as they have both good educational institutes and a lot of people, which increases the chances of a couple of them being really exceptional in the field. Plus of course they may be more willing to relocate to the states than say folks in Europe or Australia.

But again, they're not being paid less than the locals, the locals had an excellent chance to apply for and be picked for those roles with precedence over the visa candidates, its just that for that specific role, at the specific time it was posted, they were the best candidate. I don't think there's anything wrong in a US company wanting to hire the best.

 

[Corey0372]

They're big companies, and the demand for skilled coders is higher than US institutions alone can meet right now.

If it's an issue of training personnel I would think the US could find a way to incentivize these companies to train Americans to meet their standard. There's a lot being taught in college that's a waste of time and has no bearing on job requirements (not the companies fault I get it, but this is where the govt can do something to incentivize this)

its just that for that specific role, at the specific time it was posted, they were the best candidate

I'm sure HR has a role in this.

 

[Alistair]

If it's an issue of training personnel I would think the US could find a way to incentivize these companies to train Americans to meet their standard. There's a lot being taught in college that's a waste of time and has no bearing on job requirements (not the companies fault I get it, but this is where the govt can do something to incentivize this)



I'm sure HR has a role in this.

There's probably some stuff, sure.

Better HS education, better grants and incentives for those going into STEM courses at Universities, some political pressure on colleges to offer more of those courses through financial incentives like tax breaks. Plus of course better education to college applicants of the relative value of various fields with regards to earning potential.

Not really a problem for the companies though, the current system works just fine for them.

Ultimately, Google is interested in hiring the best people so they can continue to kick Microsoft's and Meta's ass. Sometimes that best person is a recent MIT grad, sometimes it's a Tsinghua grad, sometimes its an Indian Institute of Tech grad, sometimes they've been poached from Baidu or Tencent or Airbnb's Europe offices. Doesn't matter to Google really, no reason why it should and frankly I don't think punishing them for trying to gain competitive advantage and deliver shareholder value is necessarily a good idea, or even a moral one if you want to continue to have America lead the world in tech...

 

[Corey0372]

Doesn't matter to Google really, no reason why it should and frankly I don't think punishing them for trying to gain competitive advantage and deliver shareholder value is necessarily a good idea, or even a moral one if you want to continue to have America lead the world in tech...

When the US is treated as merely an economic zone and not a Nation, it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that we have a higher rate of deaths of despair than post-Soviet Russia, and that the number 1 cause of death between people aged 18-45 is fentanyl overdoses. It should also not be a shocker that there is an ever commented on and noticeably lower sense of Patriotism and national pride in American youth.

 

[Mekaniks]

Is this going to have much impact?.....

Share Message - United Automobile Workers union endorses Biden for re-election

United Automobile Workers union endorses Biden for re-election

The UAW union's backing may provide a boost to a US president who is courting working-class voters.

www.bbc.co.uk

It was a complete forgone conclusion...When..,.
Brandon showed up at the picket line shaking hands, kissing babies, taking pictures and promising not to interfere....
And then.....
Trump arrived 24 hrs later at non union competitors shop talking about he would he end the strike....

Its something I havent been understand.. and I have sincerely tried for years..

If I were a pipefitter.. or a welder.. or an electrician.. and belonged to a union.. I'd be among the "reddest" voters in the country..

I understand where you are coming from,..
But, I would seriously doubt your conclusion the first time a politician attempted to interfere in your freedom to collectively bargain....

It is not surprising that the UAW supports the D candidate, unions are socialist organizations, the most for the least, protect the lazy slugs, etc. Our kids are indoctrinated to want the free stuff by unionized teacher federations.

Painting unions as "socialist organizations" with a "wide lazy brush" is IMO simply wrong.... The Union members (and by default their unions) that I know are die hard CAPITALISTS... They are all about getting their piece of the American Dream....For themselves and the next generations... If Union members were as lazy and greedy as many folks would like you to believe, Unions would have been gone along time ago....

And yet the unions are the most unified in opposition to illegal immigration! Cheap labor threatens their livelihood.

Yet, look at the UFW (United Farm Workers) who are probably the most directly affected....
Families and friends coming across the border the work in the AMERICAN agriculture industry...Because they get JOBS...

Tell AMERICAN employers to stop hiring them...Or even..... fund the CBP (alphabet soup) and demand that they shutter, seize, and lock and chain any business that hires illegals....Capitalism conundrum.....

 

[Altitude sickness]

Another tech job issue looming is the exponential speed of AI quality and performance.

It wasn’t long ago that writing code was a more rare and specialized skill that companies fought to hire.

Then as more and more people came into that field. It was just another skill on top of your other skill sets. And pretty soon every department had several or many people that could write code. And it was then seen as just another skill on your resume instead of the entire job.

Now AI will replace that. A BOT can write a complicated algorithm and code in minutes instead of weeks. And another job bites the dust.

The code person can Learn to load data into AI. For the short term. But firms will soon have unsophisticated BOTs loading everything into the machine to build the AI tool needed.

Many traditional jobs will be replaced or reduced. They are already writing songs and books. pretty soon they will do the heavy search lifting of attorneys and you will need less attorneys, same with doctors. In the future you tell a machine what’s wrong with you and it’ll spit out a prescription.

Best to direct your kids into trades that cannot be done by a robot or AI.
plumbing, electrical, masonry, utility lineman

 

[Altitude sickness]

I was having a polite disagreement with a good friend of mine on Liberal versus conservative policies. What works and what does not.
and we kept going back-and-forth on the convoluted polluted deluded data and we were getting nowhere. The typical discussion where each is just making their points and neither is absorbing them.

so I finally pulled out several subjects that demonstrated liberal policy failures, places where liberals own it 100%.

The largest cities in our nation that have been run by Democrats And have fallen into chaos, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, Los Angeles, etc.

Detroit is one of the few exceptions, we had a black police chief that did not tolerate the summer of riots and it never got a foothold here. We also have a Democrat mayor that is doing a good job. The decades prior it was a mess.

Their pie in the sky, fantasy world and sanctuary city status has proven their dream
Has turned into a dystopian nightmare.

Education.

Democrats own education and their metric is look how much money I spent last year instead of looking at the academic achievement and reading levels. Somehow they have been allowed to keep intercity kids uneducated all the while spending more money every year.

Then I asked him if liberals got everything they wanted in this world. 100% equity in every arena, men competing against women. 80 IQ people being put into roles where 150 is needed. Free everything. Open borders, unlimited illegal immigration
and if were able to split off a few states and live in their dreamworld. How long could they pay for it and how long would they survive without people with some common sense feeding them, funding them, and holding their hand.

If these people had to live under everything, they dream of with no guard rails, they would run out of food and resources within two years

Then I asked him to name the Ronald Reagan model of merit based , work ethic, earning what you get. the government is not your parent, etc. how long that system would last

 

[Jfet]

Now AI will replace that. A BOT can write a complicated algorithm and code in minutes instead of weeks. And another job bites the dust.

My dad was a professor at San Antonio College. He taught mechanical drawing and surveying from the late 1960’s to the early 1990’s. In the 1970’s I can remember him talking about how the oil companies out of Houston, TX would come to San Antonio College in the spring and offer every drafting student that spring a job. They would graduate over a 100 students every spring. Then in 1980, dad, went to Texas A&M to learn how to teach CAD, computer assisted drawing. Shortly after that only a third of their students would be offered jobs by the oil drilling companies. CAD allowed one draftsmen to do the work of many draftsman. Tech has always replaced jobs. I would always tell my students this story and would end it with the comment, “You have to be able to adapt, adjust, and overcome.“

 

[Altitude sickness]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

A bit long and for deep thinkers. At the 10 minute mark, very interesting comments and comparison to the Nazi movement in the 1920s and 30s in Germany.

 

[Zambezi]

I paid $20 or so for a couple of pairs of 5.11 jeans recently on their most recent sale. Also , my comment was an example.

I’ll give you a real example. Having one of my engineers do an average electrical AutoCAD drawing would have a burden cost of $600. Having the same drawing done overseas is $33. Huge savings.

It's great for your company currently but what is the plan for the future. 20 years from now you're either going to have thousands of unemployed engineers in the USA or you are going to have none because all the jobs are overseas and being an engineer WORKING in America is a nonstarter. Should the latter materialise what is to stop the Bangladeshi engineer now charging you $600 because he knows he has you over a barrel?

IMHO the answer is somewhere around paying for goods at home or taxing the hell out of imports so that it makes it a little more palatable to by American. No 3rd world or American company can afford to lose the American market.

Now I know that will hurt and I'm not saying that is the solution but outsourcing to the 3rd world is only delaying you own death.

 

[Red Leg]

A friend who was working at a pretty high position at google (he quit working there) was telling me the majority of the people working there are from India and China, he also said he was almost certain that a high number of the Chinese employees were actively working for the Chinese govt.

I would say 50% of my software engineers were of Chinese descent and 75% of Asian ethnicity. Because of our product set, they were second and third generation American citizens. But as far back as when my daughter graduated from Texas A&M in '05 the sciences graduation ceremony looked like it should have been held in Mumbai or Beijing. Not many Anglo Americans are willing to enter those sorts of fields these days. If we can just figure out a way to productize history and general studies. But, I digress.

Demanding an American private sector company hire a citizen first, regardless of comparative skill set, is nothing more than an economic version of the equity and inclusion effort most participants in this thread decry.

The defense industry in particular, because so much of our business is US government contracts, already struggles to meet hiring and workforce goals demanded by the federal government on its contracts. A black female with a MS from Caltech can write her own ticket anywhere in that industry. The net net of having the best profiled work force rather than the most qualified is inevitably greater expense and longer development time. I remember the day one of my Directors discovered through one of these DNA kits that he was sufficiently Native American to meet a USG goal on a major bid. I bought him dinner and a really good bottle of wine the next time I was in Huntsville.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I remember the day one of my Directors discovered through one of these DNA kits that he was sufficiently Native American to meet a USG goal on a major bid.

Was he related to Elizabeth Warren?

 

[Red Leg]

It's great for your company currently but what is the plan for the future. 20 years from now you're either going to have thousands of unemployed engineers in the USA or you are going to have none because all the jobs are overseas and being an engineer WORKING in America is a nonstarter. Should the latter materialise what is to stop the Bangladeshi engineer now charging you $600 because he knows he has you over a barrel?

IMHO the answer is somewhere around paying for goods at home or taxing the hell out of imports so that it makes it a little more palatable to by American. No 3rd world or American company can afford to lose the American market.

Now I know that will hurt and I'm not saying that is the solution but outsourcing to the 3rd world is only delaying you own death.

The point is we won't have thousands of unemployed engineers in this country because from a macro perspective, they don't exist. The production and productivity capacity of this country greatly exceeds its domestic skill set. That is actually a good problem to have with which most of the world economies have no experience.

 

[Vintageguy]

The easiest apparent solution for the Federal Government would be to Federalize the Texas National Guard and have them stand down. Though that would be a somewhat unprecedented "mobilization" of the Guard. What I'll guarantee you is that the State Adjutant General is dealing with some interesting phone calls and not getting a lot of sleep. Last time we had a State's rights issue remotely like this of which I am aware was 1860. This particularly interesting considering the Supreme Court ruling a couple of days ago. Hopefully a couple of adults will lock themselves in a room to sort this out.

The easiest solution would be the federal government actually doing their job and secure the border. Trying to take over the guard would be a foolish and inflammatory move.

 

[Zambezi]

I still think it is a slow bleed and unproductive long term game plan. When your money is made overseas (and often stashed offshore) all you are doing is making shareholders and foreign workers rich.

As an example, the textile industry in SA employed many skilled and nonskilled workers. Within a few years it was dead. Completely dead due to outsourcing to China etc and eventually they just took over the whole pile.

Personal example: My dad worked for one of the biggest, if not the biggest, ropes and twines manufacturers in SA. He got the 90kg poly grain bags at cost. We were hoping to supply Zambia with said bags. He put half a cent on each bag as our profit (0.5c)... Well we weren't even in the running! A Chinese company won the bid. Their price to manufacture in China, ship to Durban, and rail to Lusaka they undercut us by 6 cents a bag.

When everything is made by slaves for slave wages they will have killed all our economies and sectors. Once that happens they can charge what they wish. Only slaves can compete with slaves or automation.

 

[PARA45]

I was having a polite disagreement with a good friend of mine on Liberal versus conservative policies. What works and what does not.
and we kept going back-and-forth on the convoluted polluted deluded data and we were getting nowhere. The typical discussion where each is just making their points and neither is absorbing them.

so I finally pulled out several subjects that demonstrated liberal policy failures, places where liberals own it 100%.

The largest cities in our nation that have been run by Democrats And have fallen into chaos, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, Los Angeles, etc.

Detroit is one of the few exceptions, we had a black police chief that did not tolerate the summer of riots and it never got a foothold here. We also have a Democrat mayor that is doing a good job. The decades prior it was a mess.

Their pie in the sky, fantasy world and sanctuary city status has proven their dream
Has turned into a dystopian nightmare.

Education.

Democrats own education and their metric is look how much money I spent last year instead of looking at the academic achievement and reading levels. Somehow they have been allowed to keep intercity kids uneducated all the while spending more money every year.

Then I asked him if liberals got everything they wanted in this world. 100% equity in every arena, men competing against women. 80 IQ people being put into roles where 150 is needed. Free everything. Open borders, unlimited illegal immigration
and if were able to split off a few states and live in their dreamworld. How long could they pay for it and how long would they survive without people with some common sense feeding them, funding them, and holding their hand.

If these people had to live under everything, they dream of with no guard rails, they would run out of food and resources within two years

Then I asked him to name the Ronald Reagan model of merit based , work ethic, earning what you get. the government is not your parent, etc. how long that system would last

So, what happened after you pointed out those facts? Did your friend change his mind, or not? Interesting, maybe I should use this reasoning with a bleeding Liberal friend. LOL!!!

 

[Zambezi]

The point is we won't have thousands of unemployed engineers in this country because from a macro perspective, they don't exist. The production and productivity capacity of this country greatly exceeds its domestic skill set. That is actually a good problem to have with which most of the world economies have no experience.

Dumb it down for me a bit please Joe... not quite understanding what you're saying.

 

[Red Leg]

Meanwhile the presumptive adolescent in chief continues his tantrums as he tries to further alienate everyone but his own base.

With respect to Haley and her supporters, he posted this on Truth Social last night. It is getting lots of play on all the networks this morning.

“Anybody that makes a ‘Contribution’ to Birdbrain, from this moment forth, will be permanently barred from the MAGA camp,”

“We don’t want them, and will not accept them, because we Put America First, and ALWAYS WILL!”

And because alienating 25-30% of his own party wasn't enough, he also decided to abuse his former press secretary again. Kayleigh McEnany had the gall to point out the obvious on Fox when analyzing his victory speech in NH.

"When you look at the Republican Party, seven in ten Nikki Haley voters said, ‘I would not vote for Trump.’ There was a Des Moines Register poll, 43% said, ‘No, I wouldn’t vote for Trump.'

If I’m Trump, I sit back and I exclusively focus on the general election. I take the posture of a presumptive nominee. I focus on, number one, uniting the party, and number two, winning the independents, which Nikki Haley won 55-39%. That’s what I would do.

Nikki Haley, I mean, the closest margin is 30% in the states ahead. For all intents and purposes, he’s the presumptive nominee.?

Predictably, this logic was lost on Trump - no doubt to the thunderous cheers of his cognitively challenged base. Again from Truth Social.

“I don’t need any advice from RINO Kayleigh McEnany on Fox, Just had a GIANT VICTORY over a badly failing candidate, ‘Birdbrain,’ and she’s telling me what I can do better. Save your advice for Nikki!”