Politics

[mark-hunter]

we generally regard them as the most professional, though not best equipped,

A Polish guy I work with told me Polish army has mostly vintage soviet heavy equipment. But I am certain that they are in the process of nato standardization.

 

[Red Leg]

A Polish guy I work with told me Polish army has mostly vintage soviet heavy equipment. But I am certain that they are in the process of nato standardization.

That is why I made the comment about their equipment. However, they are about to take delivery of 250 of the latest generation of M1 Abrams and 116 used models to replace the domestically modernized Soviet tanks they have passed on to Ukraine. They are also in the process acquiring 32 F-35 aircraft. Both will provide them meaningful capability against Russia.

Most importantly they have a heritage of military professionalism that creates a culture that simple defense expenditures can’t replicate.

 

[mdwest]

I had no interaction with Polish forces but I had plenty interactions with Turkish military and I consider them the most professional and capable force I interacted even par with UK's ground forces among NATO members whom I also interacted with.
They also have a lot of small scale to medium scale combat experience and modern weapons which most manufactured locally including Bayraktar TB2 drones used by Ukraine successfully against Russian armor.
Obviously with the current leadership they're not as trustworthy as Poland and they're not getting billions of Euros from EU as Poland does.
Would love to hear your view on this..

Its been a couple of decades.. but I can tell you the Turkish infantry and SOF officers I worked and trained with were all very much sub-par compared to other NATO infantry and SOF leaders I worked with (French, German, Austrian, UK, etc)... Perhaps their armor, artillery, quartermaster, etc corps are better? I have no experience outside of dealing with Infantry and SOF elements..

The Poles on the other hand have all been stellar soldiers (albeit limited by quality and quantity of equipment).. Their GROM unit I'd go so far as to say they are among the top 10% SOF units globally.. Incredibly hard working, incredibly motivated, and exceptionally well trained (not something I can say about the overarching majority of the Turks I worked with back in the day).. We had a GROM element working in the same AO in Iraq that I was in around the 2007-2008 time frame that was every bit as effective as the US SOF element they were partnered with at that time (that is a testimony of members of the US SOF unit.. who my group interfaced with directly on a regular basis for the entirety of their tour)..

I also employed a number of former Soviet Bloc / Eastern European SOF officers and Senior NCO's over the years... guys from Romania and Hungary mostly, but we also had Croatians, Serbs, and guys from the Czech Republic as well as Poles.. as private contract soldiers the Poles were as a general rule the best of breed..

The Poles also have a lot more small to medium scale combat experience than most people realize.. They had units on the ground in Haiti in 1994.. Had units on the ground in the Balkans during all of those various conflicts (the Poles are who captured "The Butcher of Vokovar" in former Yugoslavia).. they deployed pretty extensively (for their size of a military) to both Iraq and Afghanistan for most of the duration of both of those wars.. etc etc..

 

[Red Leg]

I had no interaction with Polish forces but I had plenty interactions with Turkish military and I consider them the most professional and capable force I interacted even par with UK's ground forces among NATO members whom I also interacted with.
They also have a lot of small scale to medium scale combat experience and modern weapons which most manufactured locally including Bayraktar TB2 drones used by Ukraine successfully against Russian armor.
Obviously with the current leadership they're not as trustworthy as Poland and they're not getting billions of Euros from EU as Poland does.
Would love to hear your view on this..

My experiences were quite different, and I have very different views with respect to the Turkish armed forces. I will admit I have had very little interaction with their Air Force, but the professionalism of their army leadership and general quality of the ground formations they commanded was, to me at least, unimpressive.

 

[spike.t]

Yes he is and he'll most likely lose the upcoming election because of the restrictions he was trying to put restrictions on independent judicial system and looks like his end game is to exit EU.

You getting ever so slightly mixed up....tusk is totally pro EU and was head of the European Council for several years...and he wasn't the president who has been doing the things you say and pissing off the euro lovers in the rest of Europe... , but he is the one who is now most likely to form the new government...which is why @Red Leg said they will give up or lose the streak of independence they have had in the government up to now, and will toe the line as to what the dipshits in the EU non elected regimes order...and what Germany and France want.....

 

[Brent in Az]

The worthless U.N made a statement that it is collecting and preserving evidence of war crimes from both sides since the conflict began.
The U.N is a crime upon itself.

 

[fourfive8]

It should be obvious. Spend enough time in the stench of the swamp and the olfactory permanently loses function.

 

[Doubleplay]

You getting ever so slightly mixed up....tusk is totally pro EU and was head of the European Council for several years...and he wasn't the president who has been doing the things you say and pissing off the euro lovers in the rest of Europe... , but he is the one who is now most likely to form the new government...which is why @Red Leg said they will give up or lose the streak of independence they have had in the government up to now, and will toe the line as to what the dipshits in the EU non elected regimes order...and what Germany and France want.....

You're right .I stand corrected. I mixed the one with the other.

 

[DillonG]

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Polish pilots contributed significantly during the Battle of Britain.

 

[sestoppelman]

You guys still think Hezbollah wants to stay out of this? They have been trading fire every day since this started.

Israel fends off aggression at Lebanon border as it prepares to invade Gaza

On October 16, Israeli Defense Forces are poised to begin a groun operation in Gaza against Hamas terrorists. Meanwhile, Hezbollah is carrying out attacks at Israel's northern border, and Iran is threatening to join the conflict.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Red Leg]

You guys still think Hezbollah wants to stay out of this? They have been trading fire every day since this started.

Israel fends off aggression at Lebanon border as it prepares to invade Gaza

On October 16, Israeli Defense Forces are poised to begin a groun operation in Gaza against Hamas terrorists. Meanwhile, Hezbollah is carrying out attacks at Israel's northern border, and Iran is threatening to join the conflict.

www.foxnews.com

Yes I do.

Hezbollah is capable of firing a thousand rockets a day for two months and reach the length of Israel with many of them (that is assuming no Israeli retaliation which of course would be massive). They can also attempt to penetrate Northern Israel with 20-25,000 combatants.

So far, they are firing the occasional mortar round or ATGM to which Israel responds with an overwhelming airstrike or artillery barrage.

This is thus far is nothing but a fairly weak demonstration of support for Hamas.

Iran has indeed threatened escalation through Hezbollah if Israel enters Gaza - they were saying if Israel didn't suspend the airstrikes - but these things change. We'll see what happens then, but I am not sure Iran really wants to destroy Hezbollah after spending two decades rebuilding it. I suspect we'll know soon.

 

[Brent in Az]

You guys still think Hezbollah wants to stay out of this? They have been trading fire every day since this started.

Israel fends off aggression at Lebanon border as it prepares to invade Gaza

On October 16, Israeli Defense Forces are poised to begin a groun operation in Gaza against Hamas terrorists. Meanwhile, Hezbollah is carrying out attacks at Israel's northern border, and Iran is threatening to join the conflict.

www.foxnews.com

They want to attack Israel from multiple fronts, and spread out the Israeli forces.

Let's hope that our Wussy -in-chief, didnt just send in the Aircraft carrier strike group just for show.
I'm sure the Democrat flying monkey's are putting pressure on Israel to deescalate the situation. I hope Israel tells them to go pound sand.
Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran, need to be wiped off the planet.

The swamp needs to quit trying to stall the vote for Jim Jordan. He's a hardliner, and not the typical lobbyist, and special interest group cronie. That's why there is a rift.
If push comes to shove with escalating global tensions, we need a speaker of the house to call for votes.

 

[Red Leg]

Polish pilots contributed significantly during the Battle of Britain.

Other than the victims of the Holocaust, Poland was the real loser in WWII. Remember, Great Britain and France went to war over Poland in 1939. The Polish government in exile was in London. As you noted, Polish pilots served in the RAF, but more significantly in the British Army where nearly 250,000 served. Some were simply free Poles who joined British units. Most, however, were independent Polish units like the Airborne Brigade that jumped into Arnhem. Nearly 30,000 died in combat under British command.

Others fought under Russian command, and interestingly, many were drafted into the Wehrmacht from the German occupied areas of Poland.

In spite of this sacrifice, and despite being the casus belli, at the end of the war, the allies stood by and let Stalin take control of the country. Undoubtedly the fact that the Soviet Union occupied Poland played a significant role in that decision, but it was still a pitiful reward for such sacrifice.

 

[sestoppelman]

Yes I do.

Hezbollah is capable of firing a thousand rockets a day for two months and reach the length of Israel with many of them (that is assuming no Israeli retaliation which of course would be massive). They can also attempt to penetrate Northern Israel with 20-25,000 combatants.

So far, they are firing the occasional mortar round or ATGM to which Israel responds with an overwhelming airstrike or artillery barrage.

This is thus far is nothing but a fairly weak demonstration of support for Hamas.

Iran has indeed threatened escalation through Hezbollah if Israel enters Gaza - they were saying if Israel didn't suspend the airstrikes - but these things change. We'll see what happens then, but I am not sure Iran really wants to destroy Hezbollah after spending two decades rebuilding it. I suspect we'll know soon.

If that is so, then I guess Hamas is being allowed to be destroyed while Iran watches?
I just cant see Hezbollah remaining on the sidelines for long with Hamas being decimated. It seems counter to the history of the ME conflicts.
If indeed Iran is backing both groups, it will surely send Hezbollah into battle.
As you say, we should know soon but I suspect that Hezbollah will go hard when the invasion begins.

 

[Red Leg]

If that is so, then I guess Hamas is being allowed to be destroyed while Iran watches?
I just cant see Hezbollah remaining on the sidelines for long with Hamas being decimated. It seems counter to the history of the ME conflicts.
If indeed Iran is backing both groups, it will surely send Hezbollah into battle.
As you say, we should know soon but I suspect that Hezbollah will go hard when the invasion begins.

I don't think it is counter to the history of Middle East conflicts. In fact it is cooperation between the two that runs counter to Middle East history.

Hezbollah is a Shia Muslim anti-Israel group closely allied to Iran which is a Shia theocracy. Hamas, like virtually all Palestinians, is a Sunni Muslim organization accepting help from Iran because they can't get it anywhere else. Generally, Sunni's across the Middle East hate the Shia and particularly hate and fear the Iranians. If Israel wasn't a common foe, Hezbollah would be delighted to kill Hamas. Indeed, from purely Hezbollah's perspective and with respect to their goals in the Levant, the decimation of Hamas is not an altogether bad thing.

However, for the time being at least, Iran is calling the shots for Hezbollah and they may determine it is in their interests to launch them against Israel. Again, the only way I see that happening is if Iran believes it will be in their interests to get Israel tangled up in Southern Lebanon. But they would be sacrificing Hezbollah to do so.

By the way, how is that Yevgeny Prigozhin fellow getting along?
I personally think he is in seclusion with the Hidden Imam.

 

[sestoppelman]

"Counter to the history of Middle East conflicts?!?"
What I mean by that is this isnt the first time Israel and Hezbollah have fought, regardless who may be calling the shots.

Hezbollah–Israel conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Red Leg]

"Counter to the history of Middle East conflicts?!?"
What I mean by that is this isnt the first time Israel and Hezbollah have fought, regardless who may be calling the shots.

Hezbollah–Israel conflict - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Of course. But try to find an example where the two organizations have ever cooperated in a conflict with Israel.

Hezbollah is a Lebanese based Shia organization created, largely through Iranian money, out of the chaos of the 1982 Israeli incursion into Lebanon. But the Shia of Lebanon and the broader Levant as a group, have had centuries of conflict with the Sunni of whom the Palestinians are a major regional group. It is worth noting that the civil war taking place in Syria just across the border from both Lebanon and Israel as we discuss this has devolved into essentially a Sunni/Shia conflict for control of the country with a bit of Alawite heresy sprinkled on top . Guess who Iran strongly supports. Iran has even moved a Hezbollah fighting force into Syria.

The Israeli conflict has to be viewed within that larger context.

Again Hezbollah will only act if Iran determines sacrificing it on the alter of the IDF furthers its national interests. I personally think it is far more valuable to Iran as a force in being, but we will know for sure when Israel enters Gaza.

This is a pretty good article. The thrust of it is the need for intervention in Syria (about which I am very suspect), but he also does a good quick outline of the historical loyalties.

Sunni-Shia Geopolitics: Maintaining the Balance of Power in the Levant Through Intervention

From the blog of Elazar Gabay at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

 

[sestoppelman]

Of course. But try to find an example where the two organizations have ever cooperated in a conflict with Israel.

Hezbollah is a Lebanese based Shia organization created, largely through Iranian money, out of the chaos of the 1982 Israeli incursion into Lebanon. But the Shia of Lebanon and the broader Levant as a group, have had centuries of conflict with the Sunni of whom the Palestinians are a major regional group. It is worth noting that the civil war taking place in Syria just across the border from both Lebanon and Israel as we discuss this has devolved into essentially a Sunni/Shia conflict for control of the country with a bit of Alawite heresy sprinkled on top . Guess who Iran strongly supports. Iran has even moved a Hezbollah fighting force into Syria.

The Israeli conflict has to be viewed within that larger context.

Again Hezbollah will only act if Iran determines sacrificing it on the alter of the IDF furthers its national interests. I personally think it is far more valuable to Iran as a force in being, but we will know for sure when Israel enters Gaza.

This is a pretty good article. The thrust of it is the need for intervention in Syria (about which I am very suspect), but he also does a good quick outline of the historical loyalties.

Sunni-Shia Geopolitics: Maintaining the Balance of Power in the Levant Through Intervention

From the blog of Elazar Gabay at The Times of Israel

blogs.timesofisrael.com

I cant argue any of that, I would only offer that they are in fact cooperating with Hamas/Iran right now by their daily attacks on Israel. I guess only they know what the motivation is and as you say we shall soon see if they are serious or just dicking around being a pest, which is entirely possible.

 

[sestoppelman]

MSN

More lies by Joe. He will be desperate to stay in office, so he cant be charged with anything. Impeachment is the only hope.
Sadly the Senate will not convict even if they found Joe naked in the shower with his daughter.